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Thread: Our Journey - Establishing a night time ritual

  1. #19

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    Have a Hug-a-bub, she used to settle very well in that, but only outside. She seems to prefer the babasling at the moment, but once again only outside.

    Her "protest" is not really a cry, more like a angry winge. (I will try to use that term in future ) She also stands in the cot and waves at me. I get the feeling she does not like me standing over her, so I was just lying on the bed reading, I did try reading out loud to her, but that seemed to upset her more. Sometimes her winge would turn into a cry, other times she would go quiet and play with one of her teddies. Sometimes she cries because she has just crawled into the side of the cot and hit her head


  2. #20

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    Just heard her cry out. Went in and was sitting up, then she layed down and went to sleep! I gently patted her back just to make sure. Now I just need to deal with the wakings over night.

  3. #21

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    Astrid, when you are only a few days into a routine and things are a bit tough, it is really easy to lose sight of the end goal. Don't be hard on yourself for yelling, you obviously needed to let go of your frustration.

    Can I just say though, at 8.20, when she refused a BF and started to move around/tired signs etc, maybe you don't need to read the second book? the sound of you voice may be keeping her awake.

    I found that if we were out and the kids got sleepy, if they heard my voice, their eyes would open and it would take a while for them to settle again. So I just had to keep quiet for a bit until they had nodded off.

    I don't want to upset you with this, but she obviously didn't want a BF, so why offer it to her so much, because that would mean you have to pick her up, hold her and get her in position to feed her, all of which are probably stimulating her a bit too much when it seems like all she wants to do is roll over and go to sleep IYKWIM?

    I think the fact that you both had a late nap was what mucked things up last night for you, because she just may not have been all that tired before 10pm.

    BTW - it is really great with how detailed you are in what you do with her, because it makes it easier for us to see where you are up to.
    I hope nothing I've said upsets you Astrid.

    Good luck with the naps today.

  4. #22

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    Sherie - feedback of a constructive nature does not upset me. I am deliberately being detailed, as I feel that it is sometimes the little things that could be causing problems, not the big ones IYKWM. Important info can often be lost in a quick summary. All I ask is that people do not suggest to me to CC or have a go at me for yelling etc. Being detailed is also about being honest, I hope that others can see that they themselves can give this a go, but it is not all smooth sailing.

    Offering the breast - I think I do this as she often likes to feed to sleep and at one stage it was the only way to get her to sleep. I will try not to offer it unless she is indicating she wants it.

    Must admit her sleep over night was much better. She woke after 1.00 crying so I brought her to bed. Most of her wakings from then one, she just tossed and turned a bit and went back to sleep. She didn't even want to feed like she normally does.

    Thanks for all the support and advice so far.

  5. #23

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    6.00 Dinner together - didn't want to eat, only drink
    6.15 Quiet play whilst I got shower stuff ready
    6.30 Shower - lots of eye rubs
    6.45 In bedroom! Peace Baby playing. dry off, attempt massage with some sorbolene, dress in PJ's. Still difficult
    7.00 Sit down on bed, only lamp on, Read special night time books Yawns
    7.10 Offer BF, music still playing - feeds eagerly, pulls off and moves into sleep position, but then "wakes up" and crawls. Place her in cot with teddies, she plays with them a bit. I go up to her when she stands at the side of the cot, she pulls my top and tries to get at my breasts.
    Take her out and feed her again. Seems to get so close to sleep, then does really big eye rubs and tries to crawl again. She is getting upset. I try to hold and pat her back to the music. Once again she almost gets to sleep, but not quite. Try putting her in cot, it just makes her more upset. She sits up crying and coughing.
    Hold her again, she is gnawing at her hands, teeth must be realy hurting her
    8.10 Give her dose of paracetamol, to help with teeth. Must get more Brauers
    I know bad of me, but I sit in the computer chair and hold her till the paracetamol kicks in. She has another feed, seems very eager to feed tonight. I jiggle her a bit.
    8.30 Finally asleep! Put her in the cot - Leave room for cuppa
    8.35 Woke up, cries, help her lie down and resettle - note to self, do not flush toilet!

    Notes - still very hard. I feel so sorry for her, as she seems to be trying to get to sleep her self, but cannot quite do it and of course, she cannot communicate to me how I can help her. What she wants seems to vary.
    Still feel at a loss at how to get her to sleep, the cot seems to upset her so much, but I feel if I try to hold her it is just too much for her at times. I am happy to feed her to sleep or jiggle her etc Sometimes I wish we had a big padded room, so we could go in and she could crawl around as much as she wanted without fear of falling off the bed, or banging into cot sides.

    Any of you lovely ladies want to come and help me? My DH cooks a wicked steak!

  6. #24

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    Oh Astrid, I would come and help you if I could!

    You are doing SUCH a great job, I promise you, all this repitition is boring and frustrating now, I know, but it WILL pay off. Maggie will gradually understand what it is all for and all about, and one day soon it will all just "click", I promise!

  7. #25

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    Ooooh, I love steak! If he can make Diane sauce to go with it I'd be there in a flash if I didn't live so far away

    It sounds like you had a much better night last night. Patience is the key Astrid, you are so close now. There was such a big difference from last night, where she wanted to feed often and the night before where she wasn't interested. Not to mention that you must have felt better with yourself last night too and it is not going to be easy while she is teething either as she needs that little bit extra comforting.

    You say she doesn't like the cot too much, and you do a bit of co-sleeping don't you? Is there anyway she will go to sleep with you on the bed near her, but not directly next to her and then put her into the cot once she is asleep or will it wake her?

    Does she have a special snuggle toy or something? Paige has a blanket she has to have everynight (and day for that matter!) to go to sleep with. She just cuddles up to it and sucks her thumb until she is asleep.

    You are nearly there Astrid, just keep up the great work.

  8. #26

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    I've been reading your journey Astrid & just remembering the frustration and exhaustion I felt. *hugs* Its really really hard. There were times when I'd be in tears & I'd tell the moderating staff I couldn't do it anymore. Its really hard.

    I have to give you hope. Matilda for the past 6 days has gone to bed without a whimper, she usually shows 1-2 tired signs and I ask her if she is ready for bed. She has said "yes" twice!!! Then I say lets go get your wrap (her security) and I will get you some milk and we will go in your room for a cuddle. Those are my cues, this week she's run to her room and by the time I get there she is snuggled up in bed reaching for her bottle, she's not wanted cuddles but I say "night night my love, I love you and will see you in the morning" and give her a kiss and walk out the door. Then I hear her around 6am ready for her day.

    Now... this has taken us 2 tries of sleep school, failed attempts at cc where I have been devestated. And hours and hours of crying on both sides.

    We started getting firm on her night "routine" or just order of the way we did things & words we used to cue her at around 4 months and we've adjusted it as she's gotten older. We stopped looking at the clock at around 13 months. That was probably the best move we made for us. We started focusing on what she was doing and where she was in the routine, rather than push her through it we would wait and watch and now she does it herself. She pulls her little ikea stool over to the bathroom and says "teeth" when its time to brush her teeth....very very cute but also our cue to start the bedtime things.

    Goodluck, you are doing an amazing job! It is exhausting, frustrating, soul zapping when your precious baby that you love so much will not settle. *hugs*

    and you know what? It may take 18 months like it did with us, but it will get better.

  9. #27

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    Still doing this, just don't have time to post atm.

  10. #28

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    Ok Friday night first, late in putting this down, so is now a bit hazy

    Dh is home this night. Had to go and pick him up half way through her afternoon nap.

    6.00 Dinner together - ate ok
    6.15 Quiet play whilst I got shower stuff ready
    6.30 Shower - yawns
    6.45 In bedroom! Peace Baby playing. dry off, no massage, just vicks for blocked nose. latches on whilst I am trying to dress her, so straight to BF
    7.15 Sit down on bed, only lamp on, Read special night time books
    7.10 Music still playing - Place her in cot with teddies, she plays with them a bit. I go up to her when she stands at the side of the cot, she pulls my top and tries to get at my breasts same as night before, bouncing between feeds and cot. Finally feed to sleep.
    8.00 Asleep!
    9.00 Awake - feed back to sleep
    10.00 Awake - bring to bed and feed to sleep.


    Notes: Am still really struggling with how to calm her for sleep, the reading does not seem to do enough. Also if I try to leave her on the bed with me, she just crawls, so I am constantly picking her up and moving her somewhere safe. I think this is stimulating her way to much.
    I have no idea on how to introduce a comfort item, she just throws everything away (except for the remote).

  11. #29

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    Now Saturday night.

    Once again late nap, but he morning and after lunch naps went well.

    7.00 Dinner together - ate ok and drank heaps, was very tired
    7.30 In bedroom Peace Baby playing. dry off, no massage, just vicks for blocked nose. latches on whilst I am trying to dress her, so straight to BF - same as night before
    7.45 Sit down on bed, only lamp on, Read special night time books
    7.10 Music still playing - Place her in cot , usual game. She will not lie still for feeding! I finally rock her so sleep, but just as she is about to drift off she see one of the cats! So I start again. Almost asleep, then another cat disturbs things. I kick them out. She is now really hard to settle, wants to feed, but wont stay still!
    8.30 Finally just put her in cot, she is not upset. I lay down on my bed and "pretend" to sleep. I can hear her moving about the cot, she is not winging or crying. DH comes in , asks me why she is in the cot, then before I can answer accuses me of control crying and then gets really nasty about an old toy of mine that was sitting at the bedside. So I yell at him and then he takes Maggie to the lounge. I take 5 minutes out to myself
    9.00 I go to lounge and have a cuppa. Maggie is just sitting quietly playing with the remote.
    9.20 Go back to old method of getting her so sleep at the computer. Finally get her to sleep, only to have her woken by the cat when I try to move her to the bedroom - it is just not my night. Bring her back to lounge try again
    10.00 Asleep and stayed asleep when I put her in the cot.


    Notes: I am noticing that she is regularly waking up around 7.30am and then is asleep for her first nap by 9.30. She is very tired the whole time, but it does not matter when I try to get her to sleep, she won't sleep till 9.30am!

    I really do need help with the whole getting her calm after the shower. What ever I am doing is just not working, but I do not know what else to do. At least when I was in the lounge every time she fought it, I would just put her down to play until she looked ready again. This might have happened a number of times, but it was a lot less stressful.

    DH is home this week, so I really do not know how this will go. It is like I have his support, but only half hearted. Looks as though I can't put her in the cot whilst he is here.

  12. #30
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    astrid

    i feel for you - i can hear or see the frustration and exhausion in your posts. you are doing a fantastic job and it will get better as the others have said.

    after reading your last post re not knowing about a comforter, i thought of something i did with dd - something soft and safe, my dd has a bear toy thingy or it can be something like a piece of cloth - take it to bed with you for a few nights - get your smell on it and then give it to her - you never know she may just like that security of your smell. with my dd i used to put my t-shirt i wore to bed the previous night into her cot - i short of made it into a bottom sheet and it seemed to work.

    good luck and keep up the fantastic work - you will both get there.

  13. #31

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    Hang in there Astrid, it's still early days yet and it's GREAT that you're doing it at this age while she is younger than leaving it until she's older. It will make it much easier. Eight months is a difficult age developmentally, persist and it will become clearer. I noticed a difference with Elijah after around two weeks, but it could be less, it could be more, but when you see how far you have come, it's much more motivating. Like losing weight LOL it's hard to see what you are doing until you've done ALOT!
    Kelly xx

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  14. #32

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    What a bugger about the last two nights Astrid. Don't worry though, she has probably had a bit of excitement with her dad coming home etc, and the late arvo sleeps don't make bedtime easy either.

    This may seem like a strange comfort thing, but if she likes the remote, would you be willing to let her have it as a comfort item? A comfort item doesn't have to be like a tradional blanket or something like that, just something she really likes, whatever that may be.

    Can you explain to your DH that it is ok to try different things and by putting her in her cot happy, you weren't going to control cry, because she wasn't crying. Am I right in that your Dh would rather you get her to sleep in the loungeroom and then put her to bed? Have you tried sitting on a lounge chair with her and nursing her to sleep that way, because then she can BF and snuggle on your lap. I used to do this with Erin until she was around 8 months, because she and Lindsay shared a room, and she would just sit in her cot and want to 'talk' to him.

    When my kids were that age, they would wake at 7.30 am too, and quite often were ready for a sleep again by 9.30 - 10 am, which was OK, I'd be happy to put them down at that time, because it worked well for us.

    I know you will get there in the end Astrid.

  15. #33

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    Started earlier tonight as she was showing tired signs and it was too late for a nap

    5.30 Dinner - not together
    6.00 Shower - still looked tired, yawns
    6.20 In bedroom Peace Baby playing. dry off, no massage, just vicks for blocked nose. latches on whilst I am trying to dress her, so straight to BF - same as nights before
    6.45 Sit down on bed, only lamp on, Read special night time books
    7.10 Music still playing - She seems a bit calmer tonight. Try just sitting with her against my chest, gave her a spare remote to play with. Wants to feed a lot, but can't seem to stayed focused is easily distracted by objects around the room.
    Put her in cot, she is quiet and plays a bit. Go up to her after awhile to see if I can get her to lie down, she just shows interest in BF. So take her out and feed her again. She mucks around again.
    So change music and hold her against my chest, pat and bounce to music. She actually gets sleepy, but then starts to fight, just hold her and keep on patting, she stops struggling and goes sleepy again. Got to what I thought was asleep, but she woke up in the cot. So start again. This goes on a few times, she just wont get fully asleep and becomes more awake and upset with each attempt.
    8.00 Start to get frustrated, so end up taking her to lounge and giving her to DH. She just wants to play, so we let her crawl about for a bit
    8.45 She looks tired, so I take her back to the bedroom, put on music and finally bounce her to sleep
    9.00 Asleep and does not wake again till 11.00

    Notes: Really beginning to think the constant trying to get her to sleep is stressful on both her and me. To me it is just not healthy. In a dilemma of what to do. There is no space in the bedroom to just put her on the floor to play, so I can only bring her to the lounge.
    Was is like this for the rest of you?

  16. #34

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    I know the feeling Astrid, you are not alone! Often what I will do if I feel it's not working is try something different. Can your partner take her for a walk when he gets home? Then do the night routine? I find this helps me a great deal, they LOVE their walk. It doesn't need to be set to times, but just in order. Even just one or two cues can be enough, but don't keep doing it if you feel it's unproductive. I always had to keep changing my plan with Marisa, she was a fighter
    Kelly xx

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    Author of Want To Be A Doula? Everything You Need To Know
    Follow me in 2015 as I go Around The World + Kids!
    Forever grateful to my incredible Mod Team and many wonderful members who have been so supportive since 2003.

  17. #35

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    The problem with involving DH is that some weeks he is not home and when he is, sometimes he can be very late. I am not sure if this will confuse her. My feeling was that things were going to improve before DH came home and now he is home I am not so sure. I could see the benefits of it, as it was nice having adult time after 8.00, even if she did wake and need resettling.

    Something must be going on with her at the moment, she is behaving the same way with her morning nap. Normally she is down by now, but she is just mucking about, getting close to sleep, then waking up! No hope in getting her to sleep now, someone has started up with the mower from hell! :fuming:

    I need to think about this some more.

  18. #36

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    Astrid, you may not be able to do this in your house, but sometimes when Lindsay was little, I'd be busy doing housework and stuff and come into the loungeroom only to find the poor little mite had fallen asleep on the floor, so I would just cover him with a blanket if it was cold and leave him there. Naturally this is not ideal, but it let him fall asleep when he was tired IYKWIM? instead of me making him wait until it was 'time' and have him be past his tired stage.

    let us know what you decide

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