Sleep - how much at night?

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I am a member of another BFing group and have all their leaflets, including LLL leaflets! It isn't hunger as even after 7 hours he just wants a snack, he's not really hungry.

Although, this quote from The Times newspaper I found has helped:

But in this era of thirty and forty something working parents with more money than energy, help is at hand in the form of a new and booming sleep industry.

Ahhhhh, so sleeping through is a national obsession because "the oldies" (she said with humourous intent) have more money than... I'll leave it at energy. But the article then raves about control crying. If that's the only way to do it then I'll keep waking up!

[Liz]

But the article then raves about control crying. If that's the only way to do it then I'll keep waking up!

Yep, that was me too. I finally stopped trying, or at least stopped thinking about sleep and watching the clock, and just went with the flow. If he was tired, I'd feed him, and he'd usually drop off to sleep. Wouldnt' necessarily stay asleep for that long mind you! I think I only tried putting him to bed awake a few times, and we both hated it, and it took so long! We didn't even have a bedtime routine - mainly coz a bath stimulated him too much back then (he loves his showers with daddy now tho) and well, I'm not a routine kinda person hehe. Now that he's a bit older he appreciates books and things more, so that's becoming a bit of a routine for bed.

It's only now that he'll come off the boob awake, and lie down next to me and go to sleep on his own. I actually love that we've never 'fought' to get him to sleep, and I think it's done the world of good in the long run (if you call 1 yr a long run LOL) because he doesn't fight us to go to bed. So long as he's got his arm wrapped around my neck, he'll go off in about 15 mins (and it's actually quite lovely). I think it's a nice transition from feeding to sleep, and I'm confident that this won't go forever either, and he'll soon go to bed on his own.

So, I can't offer you any practical advice, but if you find something that works.. do it Be it the rocking chair, the pram, feeding, co-sleeping (we've had no 'bad habits' from any of this, because you have to remember they change so much during that first year anyway) Co-sleeping I found really helped with tiredness in those weary weeks, because it was little effort to feed at night, and I 'got' to him before he'd fully woken up. If he was in his cot in his room, by the time I got there he was very awake and took longer to settle.

Are there gentle sleep schools there? Controlled crying or controlled comforting isn't recommended for under 6 months, and it sounds like you don't want this anyway, and that's probably what a 'normal' sleep school would encourage.

[srv]

Well I have a different challenge. As I mentioned earlier we were going to try to get Stephen down for his sleep earlier by doing his bedtime routine with his 6/7ish feed. Since day 1 coming home we started his bedtime routine at about 9:30 with bath, massage, cuddles and bedtime story in our bed in a dim room, feed and then bed. He was great and would settle straight after his feed to sleep by 10/10:30. Because of his reflux he now is kept upright in my arms after the feed so he falls asleep in my arms. He initially slept till 2-3:30 then feed then settle and then sleep till 6-7ish. He's now 8 weeks and for the last 1-2 weeks has been sleeping after 10ish feed till 4:30-5:30ish and then wakes about 8-9ish for play, not feed. Throughout this time he always fought sleep in the evening from 6ish feed to bedime and would invariably end up in bed with us watching tv till his bedtime routine would start. He would maybe have a very short sleep in this time but would mostly be unsettled or just want to be up playing. We would have the bassinette in the lounge with us till bedtime.

From Sat night we thought we would try doing the whole bedtime routine with his 6/7ish feed. Essentially keeping everything identical but the time. He would appear to fall asleep in my arms just like usual but after putting him in his bed in his room within 20 mins he would be bawling. Normally he's just grizzling a bit but when he's been put to sleep properly in his room he's been screaming. I go in and settle him and then he starts again 10 mins later.This goes on until eventually I pick him up to take him to the bed with me when he's all smiles and cooing. Then he has his feed at 9:30 10 ish and sleeps till 5am. I just don't know why he won't sleep in the evening. I don't know what to do cause I know how important it is for him to be getting into bed at a reasonable hour for when he gets a bit older and it was such a pain bathing him so late. I do know how lucky we are with his night sleeps but I'm so exhausted by the evening that I need it. We will keep persevering but any suggestions would be appreciated.

[Emma1979]

aaagh srv, i feel your pain. I don't know the answer. Hollie is quite unsettled in the early evenings too. When we did manage to get her to sleep, we still had to go in frequently because of crying and replace dummy etc. I decided 7pm was too early for her right now, and we have now pushed it back to about 8.30pm. It is still a huge improvement on giving her bath at 10pm like before. I am planning on trying to stick to bath at 8.30pm then bed for a few weeks, then maybe bring it forward to 8pm all going well, then after a few weeks try bringing it forward a bit earlier to maybe 7.30pm. This is all provided she can still manage to sleep to a reasonable hour in the morning. I'm not going to put her to bed earlier if it means her days will start super early, like 5am or anything.

In an ideal world I think it would be bed at 7.30pm, wake at 7.30am, but I think it will be a long road ahead before we get there. At the moment it is more like bed at 9pm, she sleeps but is quite unsettled til about 11pm, then sleeps soundly from then on and wakes around 7.30-8am (unless she wakes in the night for dummy or feed)

I would probably suggest post poning the 7pm bedtime, and maybe bring it forward just a little to what you were doing before... ie if bedtime was 9.30pm, make it 9pm or 8.30pm for a while. its the only thing i can think of. best of luck. we are in very similar position. i know how exhausting it is bathing them etc so late at night.

[srv]

At least we know we can bath him early and he will still do the long sleep from 10-5. I'm worried that if we do it gradually that he will be waking much earlier in the night or decide to wake for the day at 5am. We're only 2 days in so we'll try a bit longer but we may have to do what you're doing.

[mmack]

My DD used to do the same thing, she would not go to sleep before 12-1am and was just wide awake...then when she was about 4-5 months old she gradually started getting tired earlier and earlier and going down about 9pm, I think because she was sleeping less and playing more during the day..then we started bathing her at 630 and she now sleeps from 7ish straight through until 6-7..so maybe her sleep pattern will settle with time too - I hope so!

Also there is a notorious growth spurt at 12 weeks, where they want to feed all the time and wake much more often at night!


Marion

[Jac]

SRV - I had the EXACT same patterm with my DS at around 6 weeks of age. He would be unsettled between 6-10pm, then go to bed quite well after this time. My suggestion is to continue to perservere with settleing him at 7ish, like you have tried, but stay in his room throughout the time that he usually needs resettling (so probably 20 mins for you) and quickly resettle as soon as he starts to grizzle without picking him up if you can, then stay in room for up to 10 mins more in case he needs resettling again (or wait just outside his room/close by). It takes forever to do it this way but I have found that over time it is really successful. It now takes me 15 mins in total to put DS to bed at 6.30pm and I don't hear from him again until I wake him for a rollover feed. Mind you, it has taken the last 6 weeks of doing this consistently every night for us to get to this satge. Oh, I also only settle DS in his bed awake (only picking him up briefly if he cries - I settle without picking up if he "whinges") - very hard work but so worth it as he now sleeps really well at night.

[Rouge]

Can I just say re how to get babies to sleep through, I really do think its something they do on their own. Paris was 8 months Seth was 10 months. I have friends whose children still wake often, and I know myself I am a very light sleeper and take a long time to fall asleep. I can have 5 hours the night prior and still fall asleep between 11-1. I used to find it difficult as a child too, I can remember being put to bed between 7-7:30 and not sleeping till 9:30-10:30 at night. Try as hard as it is to accept your babies sleeping patterns for what they are. It will get easier and soon you will long for the time cuddling and rocking them. I'm actually pretty naughty. I always go in to Paris & Seth at night to fix blankets and give last kisses and cuddles and if either or should wake oh well that just means I get a chatter and cuddle with Paris or a special cuddle and rock in the chair with Seth. I miss my babies waking for cuddles and comfort.

You are all doing super jobs, and sometimes its just in their genes or its not. I swear our kids get their sleepy genes from Marc's side of the family as they were all easy sleepers, whereas I know my Mother was horrendous and like me she was a night owl.

*hugs*
Cailin

[srv]

Quick question. For those of you who put your babies down to sleep around 6/7ish, what is your pattern for doing this with relation to feed time. ie If bubs is asleep do you wait till they wake up for a feed and then feed and do the bedtime routine. Do you wait till they wake and then do the routine ending with a feed or do you wake bubs a little earlier than you would expect them to wake for a feed, have a little play time and then start the bedtime routine? Do you incorporate playtime in your routine at all? Just curious.

[Emma1979]

well hollie has gone to bed at 8pm tonight, after having a feed at 6.30pm... she was so tired and there was nothing i could do to keep her up any longer would have just been madness... so i plan on going in at around 10pm and giving her a feed and then putting her straight back down again, hopefully she will be very dozy and just fall asleep. Not sure how this will affect what time she wakes up. Am going to keep the lights low and just pluck her from her cot and do a silent no frills feed then back to bed. fingers crossed.

a girl at my mothers group puts her baby down about 6 or 7, does sleepy feed at 10pm, then he sleeps til 6am, has another feed then back to bed til around 9am. Can u believe that!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I would love it if Hollie did that, but it seems about 9 hours of sleep in a row is all she will tolerate. Still pretty good though!