When do I seek help?

[~*Niadalla*~]

Hi,
DS has been a horrible sleeper since day one outside my belly! Actually, inside my belly he was awake all hours of the night.
Anyway, at 9 and a half months, I am REALLY starting to wear down. He is currently waking 5 times a night.. sometimes more, very rarely less.
I am losing my mind.

He's the happiest little boy in the world, he really is. He does not get grumpy during th day unless he is hungry.
He is just an angel during the day.
Night time.... well it's another story.
He goes down so well. Not a whimper. He's a good boy like that. But he will wake within an hour of going down. Fair enough, he's just a bub that wants be be awake longer. I am trying to work it all around him.
So, we finally get him back down around 930 -10ish, and within 2 hours, he's up again and ready for a feed. Sometimes he feeds brilliantly. Others, it's just for comfort.
It just drives me mad that he will wake very couple of hours, sometimes every hour.
I have always been the type of person to let DS take the lead. He is demand fed, and demand sleeps. I know when he is tired before he does, and during the day he just dozes once his head hits the mattress.

I check if he's too hot, too cold. If he's waking because he's in pain. I try not to feed him at every instance.
DP and I try patting him to sleep. Putting his dummy back in. Turning on his little lullaby puppy. Singing very quietly. No light at all. Night lights. Leaving a radio on in the background. Having no noise at all.
He ends up coming into our bed, where he sleeps a lot better, but still has waking periods.
I don't know whether to completely cut out all nighttime feeds, and if he's hungry, give him water?
He seems to sleep well when I am not home at night for some reason.... maybe he can't smell the milk like he can when I am home?

So, when should I start phoning around the various sleep centres? My MCHN doesn't really want to know.... there's been a few things we have been fobbed off for now, so my faith in her has dwindled.

I am at a crossroads and don't know what to do. I am ready to give up breastfeeding altogether and hope that he will settle better on formula. I know he won't be like this forever, which is why I have waited this long to even consider sleep schools.

What to do, what to do? Does anyone have any ideas?

[BhoysGirl]

Nicky, call NOW! well, tomorrow morning. I have heard good things about the Queen Elizabeth Centre, which is in Noble Park. Including the fact that they don't do controlled crying, unlike some of the other places. A guy that DF works with, he & his wife did the residential program with their DD, and said that it changed their life, the best thing they did. The only downside is that they appear to have a 3 week wait for a phone call for assessment. There might be ways around this, I just don't know how/what exactly, but maybe someone else on here would?? Also, when you get the phone call from the nurse, make sure you sound desperate, because if you sound like you're coping, then they'll just tell you to stop feeding in the night - well, that was what they told me, and didn't even offer a day course. And then said that if I was still having problems after a week, to call them back to go on the list again, to wait another 3 weeks for a phone call... Anyway, this aside, she was very nice. And in fairness, I don't have the kind of problems that you're having, and I'd feel horrible knowing that I was taking a place when there are people like you who need this so much more.

[[M]umma[M]ia]

theres no right or wrong on when to get help. But i agree call first thing in the morning. U cant survive like that.. good luck

[~Saram~]

Firstly, take a deep breath and take time to congratulate yourself on the AWESOME job you are doing!

Secondly I want you to know you are not alone, it sounds like your DS and my DD are twins!

We have tried just about everything you have suggested and haven't had a lot of success, our GP even suggested sedating her.

However I wanted to let you know there is light at the end of the tunnel. Ari now sleeps from 7:30pm until 2am and then from 2am -5am. She wakes quite often for the last couple of hours until she is ready to get out of bed at 8am.

What we found worked was
- we put her in a toddler bed which allows me to lie down and feed her to sleep in her own bed, this means when she wakes she isn't in a different place. She now wakes in the early part of the night but resettles herself!
- she does get a bottle occassionaly but this doesn't mean you have to give up BF! Some days hubby gives her a bottle before bed, othertimes I BF her, if she is feeding constantly through the night and I have changed nappy etc I will try a bottle, she times she wants it othertimes she spits it out and wants the breast again
- we co-sleep from 2am so I can sleep
-we have been more strict with her getting her daytime sleep, even though we struggle with this due to our family circumstances
- oh and we try and make sure she has lots of solids at night
- I have been using the Elizabeth Pantly suggestions esp the PPO method.

That's all I can think of it but some of it I think has to do with her just getting older. Just remember when you are up that there is someone else up too

[~*Niadalla*~]

Thanks all!
I do try and remember back to when DS first arrived and how tired I was back then, up every hour and half, but it really does start to play on your mind when other parents with children the same age as your, start to complain about being woken once a night.
Heck, I hate being woken once a night aswell, but if I went to once a night from where I am now, I would be thrilled!
I am not expecting him to sleep 12 hours. No way. He's not going to be that child. Just to wake a bit less, maybe twice a night? I just dont understand how some bubs can go without a feed for 12 hours, and yet mine can't really go without for more than 3.
He eats like a horse! He eats so much. He is not a big baby, he is probably on the lower side of average, but he is very happy. He has 3 sleeps during the day, 2 for an hour and one for 2-3 hours depending. So his day sleeps are fine.... just the nights.
Trust me to have an 'outgoing' baby! LOL

[shellbell3]

You said he sleeps well when you are not at home, so could you maybe send your partner in when he wakes so he thinks you aren't there?

[Barb Glare]

Hi,

Your baby sounds like a real livewire! It must be exhausing waking so many times a night.
There are a couple of ways to go - none of them being more inherently "better" than others. Many mothers find that just popping their baby in bed with them is the quickest route to getting more sleep. And it's a fine way to arrange your sleep - most of the world's population have done it for most of history! for all of you, this can take a few days to get used to - esp if you or your partner thought it would be something you would never do. It's worth persisting with until you all get used to it.
A good book, like one of Pinky McKay's or Elizabeth Pantley's can be good. Can you identify why he is waking up at night? Usually it's just to "check in" with mum - to know she is still there - a few sucks and he goes back to sleep - no prob for the baby, but often mums have a sleep problem - they can't go back to sleep! That's where co-sleeping can be so good. It is possible to help babies feel safe and not need to check in with mum so often, but it can take a few difficult nights, and you will definately have to enlist the support of your partner. Basically, it is a matter of going in - or even better, his dad, and patting, comforting etc, but not feeding until he learns that he doesn't "need" mum to go back to sleep
Regards
Barb

[MantaRay]

Niadla, on top of the good advice that has already been posted, I want to add that there is defintely hope for a 12 hour sleeper. My second DS was a terrible sleeper in the beginning, and was still waking at least once until 12 months. Like your DS he is a big eater and on the small side and I thought he was just never going to be able to get through the night. Then at about 12 months, he suddenly started sleeping through, I was even able to drop the dream feed and he still slept through. Yesterday he went down for his afternoon nap at about 2:00pm and we woke him this morning at 6:30 am!! I kid you not. And he very, very rarely wakes in the night. Unlike my first DS who was sleeping through from 6 weeks and then turned into a shocking sleeper. So you never can tell - the light at the end of the tunnel might be closer than you think!

[Willow]

I feel your pain, I really do. My DS is 6.5 months and doesn't look like sleeping through any time soon. He goes to bed at 6pm, has a feed at about 9-10pm, then sleeps till about 1.30am/2am, has a feed, then sleeps through till 5am, has a feed, then gets up at about 7.30am. While he's asleep, he sleeps soundly but I have to feed him to get him to go back to sleep. To be honest, I haven't really tried anything else but I'm waiting till he is established on solids and then I think I've made up my mind to cut out his night feeds between 10pm and 5am. It's not going to be easy which is why I've put it off this long! I hoped he'd gradually just sleep longer if I followed his lead (and sometimes he does, his longest stretch at night to date is 5 hrs but he's only done that once or twice. He more often does 4.5 now) but generally there's not been much improvement.

The one thing that stood out to me in your post was his day sleeps - he seems to be sleeping more during the day than most 9.5 month olds I've known. Have you tried cutting him back to two day sleeps? Does he get grumpy and irritable during the day if he doesn't sleep that much?

As for the original question - the time to get some help is when YOU feel you need it!

[onlyone]

Sleeping school is an excellent idea.

My daughter and I went when she was young it was great.

However be prepared for the controlled crying techniques.

I just kept thinking that things could not go on the way they had been, when I was hearing my daughter screaming mummy and knowing that I was not going to come running. I watched and heard many screaming children learn that it is not all about them. One girl threw up but they all lived.

Best of luck it does get better you just need to keep you focus and remember what you want in the end a happy child and happy healthy rested mother.

[~*Niadalla*~]

Thanks everyone. We had a slightly better night last night, but still not great. He ended up co sleeping with us most of hte night, which is what we started with when he was younger, just now hes getting bigger and squirming and DP and I have no bed! LOL
Not really into controlled crying. It's just not my thing. I can't stand the thought of him crying when he doesn't have to. I don;t think it would work, because he works himself up after just a minute.

He still sleeps in our room... maybe this could be a problem?? He is not right next to the bed, but only a few steps away. At this point in time, there is no heating in his soon to be bedroom, so whilst it's freezing cold over winter, I was planning on keeping him in with us, and moving him out when the weather starts to warm up.
I thought he had pretty average sleep patterns during the day. He sleeps till 9am with me... ( on and off.. I try as hard as I can to stay in bed as long as possible to try and get some sleep), then up for brekky, play and then down around 1130/12 for 2 hours, up for lunch, play, snack, down at around 3 for an hour, up for a snack, play, dinner,bath every 2nd night ( due to eczema), and then he will start to get tired at 730/8pm, which I then put him into bed for.
Most of the time, he wakes around 930, for a feed adn thinks its play time again. If we are lucky, he will go down at 11, and sleep till 1ish for another feed... and so on until 7am where he will usually sleep until 830/9am.
When he's put to bed, he doesn't normally whinge, just puts his dummy in, head down, and off he goes. Sometimes if he's overtired, he'll whinge a little, but after about 10 mins he's out like a light.

He dosen't always follow this routine. like today, where he only slept an hour between 1030 and 1130, and then an hour between 2and 3, and has just gone down now at 5pm.

ANyway, Just wanted to show his approximate routines, and see if anyone can find anything that I might be able to change? I don;t like the idea of trying to keep him awake during the day too much, as I have tried it before and it didnt work. When he's tired, he just wants to sleep, which is fair enough, cos I am the same.

[Eugenia]

I don't know much about sleep schools except that most teach controlled crying which really isn't my cup of tea. (If you want to know more about it read some of the wonderful articles here on BellyBelly.)

My daughter was a terrible sleeper from the time she was 1 till only a couple of months ago. For a while there she was waking up every two hours and making my life miserable with no sleep. What finally worked for us was one of the techniques in Elizabeth Pantley's book, of sending daddy to comfort and settle her every time she woke up. We took it slowly, intially I got her used to being re-settled by me without using the boob to put her back to sleep using only patting and singing (most of the time). Then daddy started going in early in the morning to her for a few days, then he went in any time after midnight for a few days then it was only daddy every time she woke up. She didn't like it at first and would whinge and take a lot longer to settle and a couple of times started crying and screaming so that he had to give up and bring her in to me. But eventually she started settling for him a lot more quickly and easily so that he only had to say, "Sophia, lie down please" and she would just lie back down and go back to sleep! After that she started sleeping longer stretches and then one night she didn't wake up once between 8pm and 6am and we couldn't believe it the next morning. Since then she has been great with only a few unsettled nights here and there and they've always had a reason, like she's sick or teething.

If you're having trouble night weaning or even if you don't know if he's ready I suggest giving the ABA a ring as they might have some tips to help you.

Anyway, good luck with whatever you decide to try. And don't despair, there is light at the end of the tunnel.