"You need to control cry"

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Just a vent, but I can't believe how many people have said this to me the last week - even offering to come round at night to help me deal with it. I don't do CC, I don't believe in CCing, it will not help me or my baby! OK, we're tired, but how will crying help? If I cry myself to sleep I don't feel rested when I wake up, why should DS? Why do I want to teach him that I don't care? I learnt my parents don't care and DS will NEVER learn that. I wish people thought of the consequences of using CCing as a teaching method and I wish people wouldn't keep suggesting it!

Any good comebacks? I'm biting my tounge from "I don't do that, I'm a good mother" because these people are wellmeaning and have used CC as a method, but I'm getting sick of the offers and only having a few people support me (luckily DH is one of them).

Oh yes, and DS isn't naughty for not sleeping. He is a good, intelligent, active boy who finds it hard to shut down. That isn't naughtiness!

[Beach Mama]

Oooh hun - I hear ya. Mum and numerous people think its absolutely terrible that I am feeding Isabelle every 3 hours at night at the moment but keep telling me just to let her cry it out for "30 mins or more and then she won't wake up anymore" Arrrggghhh - ok I would LOVE to cut the feeds but I will not do it by letting her cry..... sorry hijacking - hun. I just tell them that research shows that it can be damaging to them - get them to read the CC section in Pinky's Sleeping like a Baby, or I tell them that even the sleep schools don't do CC anymore so isn't that saying something! Funny how if you refer to something "expert" they change their tune a bit.
Good luck.

[Emma1979]

if u really want to get them off your back i would actually say that you tried it and it didnt work. what can they say to that?

also if anyone asks how bubs is sleeping, lie! if you tell them the truth thats when all the advice comes in and well meaning people try to tell u what to do. i found the sooner i shut up, the sooner the advice stopped.

[Chalalan]

Hey Ryn, your DS sounds like a brat! When was the last time you gave him a good belting?

I'm sorry that you are getting inundated with unwanted advice and finding it hard to bite your tongue. If anything helps, there is a whole army of supporters here that think you are doing a great job and maybe we can help to counteract the bad vibes from the rest of the well-meaning but differently-parenting people out there.

Keep doing whatever works for you.

[Lucy]

Ryn,

Why are they even bringing it up in the first place? How do they get onto the topic?

My advice would be that prevention is better than cure.

If they ask "how is he sleeping" just say "with his eyes closed" LOL!

If they ask "Is he sleeping through the night" just say "he's doing fine".

End of sleep conversation. Then they won't feel any need to attempt to try and tell you to CC?

[Astrid]

Went to my Dr's surgery one day to talk to them about depression, unfortunately I did not get my normal Dr. The Dr I got told me I had to CC, it would solve all my problems and would not refer me to a psychotherapist as I requested. She did CC with her child, so if she does it, it must be all right. Well I wont tell you what I said to her as I don't want to upset fellow BB'ers who have used CC, but she was pretty insulted by my response. I lodged a complaint about her later that day and my normal Dr had me come in to do the referral I wanted. I was absolutely shocked that a health professional would recommend it so off hand for something so serious as depression. I have no idea how CC was meant to stop my husband from working longer hours, how it was going to get him off the computer and stop my MIL from meddling (the main things contributing to my depression). Sorry to hijack, but I know how you feel when all you get is awful advice and not the support that you really need.

[Michelle71]

Ryn - I am getting small suggestions (more because I have the same *problem* as Tanstar with feeding every 2-3 hours) and then the usual questions.

Does he sleep through the night - yes, he just wakes to feed when he needs it

Is he a good baby - what is the definition of a good baby (usually refer the point 1 )

DH is less subtle and says no, he is a turd who wakes his mother every few hours to feed but there is a no refund policy so we can hardly take him back (for those in Aust. refer to the Ikea ad ) He doesn't really mean it but as he said, what a stupid question to ask ..... it deserves a stupid answer.

My Dad suggested that wearing him to settle at dinner time was a bad habit to get into. My response - if I wait for him to settle I don't get fed until 9pm or I get a cold dinner. I would rather wear him and we are both happy. He acknowledged that was a good point (good Dad!!!!)

In the end people usually well meaning and want you to be rested, well etc etc. A few pre-prepared comments can make them easier to manage

[Bathsheba]

I haven't read all the PP so it might have already been suggested but the most accurate response would be:

"according to latest research CC on a regular basis has been proven to have detrimental effects on the developing brain through the release of harmful chemicals associated with stress".

If they would like further reading direct them to The Science Of Parenting. I believe the author is a fellow Englishwoman too Brilliant book, highly recommended!

[paradise lost]

You could respond with "if i tell you to shove that advice will you go away and cry yourself to sleep?" Sorry, no sleep last night

I was thinking "i wish there was an answer that involved me staying in bed" between 3am and 5am this morning when my little sweetie, who has a cold, was crying and getting me up every 10 minutes. But there wasn't one. I just kept doing it and taking deep breaths so as not to get annoyed and eventually she got to sleep. Little kids need us when they need us, regardless of the hour.

When people ask if she's a "good" baby/child i either so "Yes, she's brilliant" or "no, i'm going to drown her in the bath tonight". You could try, with the CC "no, i don't like it when DH makes me cry on my own for hours" or "No, i don't like making any members of my family cry indefinitely" or "yes, i'll try that, if he's not crying, do i hit him to MAKE him cry so he can sleep?" or the truth - "i cannot see how him crying and me lying listening to him crying will get us more sleep than we have now".

Bx

[FluffyLaRue]

I like Lucy's suggested answers!

I have raised 4 children in a co-sleeping, gentle parenting envioronment... My 9 year old hasn't suffered at all from my parenting methods. I feel for you though, I copped all the same stuff when my kids were younger. I always say 'proof is in the pudding' with my lot. I sleep better having babes in bed where they can feed easily, and they thrive on the closeness.

Yay for you! Keep doing it your way

[Bathsheba]

How true Bridie! The proof truly is in the pudding! people often do comment how I manage to have such a "co-operative" 4yo when it comes to bedtime. He insists on going to bed as soon after dinner as possible, if not before! And once he is in his bed he rarely gets up... not that it bothers us if he does because it means he needs us! But my point is that he is the product of co-sleeping/non CC. Whereas my DD didn't spend as much time sleeping with us and back then (1994) I didn't know the damage CC can do so just blindly followed the advice of people who suggested CC... and as a result (I think) she was a terribly insecure sleeper that never really settled into her own bed until she was about 5yo.

My 15 month old sleeps with us from when he wakes up naturally in his cot each morning, usually at about 4/5am these days... he is brought in immediately. And I think that he too will eventually feel secure enough to want his own space in his own time. it's all about creating trust isn't it?

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Thanks for all the replies.

Usually, if people ask if DS is "good" I reply that he's perfect and that shuts people up. If asked, I usually say he sleeps 8-7 most days, as he does. He just wakes in between, a fact most people don't need to know. I aren't going to lie and say I have done CC because I believe that CC is a form of torture (after all, starving your baby or locking your baby out naked in the snow is torture, why is depriving your child of an emotional need any different?) and there's no way I will ever do that. Doesn't matter that DS is only my first so I don't know about anything, doesn't matter that "everyone" resorts to it, doesn't matter that I have no sleep. I can live with no sleep, DS can't learn how to love without me showing him.

Without letting DS cry, I can pat him back to sleep a lot of the time. Yes, I haven't been able to do that since birth, but I can now do it and we're both happy about it. Without letting DS cry he has slept until about 4am in his own cot a couple of times this last week. I am thrilled for that. DS will sleep without crying it out. I feel awful when I have cried myself to sleep when I wake, so why do I want DS to feel like that?

Sadly, this advice came when I had a breakdown after a week of very broken sleep (a 2 hour stretch was good then!) and I could have just walloped them! I did snap at one friend and felt awful about it, she's an anti-CC person too but told me she thought DS was tired... well, der! Everyone normally thinks that DS sleeps pretty well, despite not going through, as I look so fab and like I'm managing! And I can get him back down within about 5 minutes usually, you can't do that with control crying (for one thing, you're supposed to just listen to the screaming for ten minutes, which is twice as long... a point I may use!).

I'm taking the Science of Parenting along on Friday to show a friend about the CCing studies in there, I really hope that will shut up the girl who wants me to CC! I'm constantly having to tell her 3-year-old that DS is playing with that toy and he doesn't need help or her to take it away, or that he's trying to sleep so can she not keep touching him... if the mother doesn't notice that she may not notice this though!

Astrid, you poor love - I have a fab GP, luckily, but my depression is exacerbated by DS, not caused by him. After all, he doesn't go fishing for days at a time, nor does he make nasty comments about my parenting or tell me I'm doing it wrong and he hasn't had a campaign of hate against me for about 20 years. Cure my mother and my husband will want to stay at home more and I will be better when DS doesn't sleep!

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Just realised that will sound awful to some CCers - it's not for me, I honestly believe it does harm. Many people feel differently and they are allowed to, but if I choose not to do something then it is because I've thought about it and decided against it, not because I am trying to attack someone else's suggestions and parenting.

[Ginger]

this thread has really helped me too rosehip. i'm so tired of people telling me i'm spoiling my son and that he's manipulating me just cos we co-sleep and i never leave him to cry. i wish people would trust that i know ds the best and that i know what i'm doing (even though he's my first) and that i know what works for us. leaving him to cry never ever achieves anything...it just gets us both more upset, so why do people tell me to do this???

[RhiChiChi]

Ryn, your second last post is brilliant.

TBH I thought I would do some form of CC with our DD but it is so cruel IMO - I realised this the day she was born. How could I let her cry herself to sleep? If she wants a feed or a cuddle or just me I will hold her all day if she wants! I love holding her to sleep, but do try to encourage her to sleep in her own bed (which she does most of the times). Somtimes I just miss her that I just want to get her out of her cot and cuddle her all night! I haven't read the studies about cc but I can't let her cry it out, nor can I not give her eye contact if I am trying to settle her.
I think you are doing great, what a lucky boy to have such a great mum, like you!
I was PMSL at some of the BB members suggestions... he he

[fionas]

Ditto Julia (we seem to be following each other around threads today!)

CC sounded quite good in theory when I was pregnant. Now that my little cheeky chops is here, it's not for me. I'm v lucky that she's a v good sleeper anyway but just like you, I often miss her and just want to get her out of her cot. The other night she slept from 8pm - 7am straight. Not me, I was up at 4.30am hovering over her cot and accidentally on purpose making a bit of noise hoping she'd wake up so we could play! Ridiculous behaviour, I know.

[Haydies]

Like you Julia and Fionas, I too thought I would do some form of CC when I was pregnant, after all, that's what everyone was telling me they did, so it must be just what you do. The second I laid eyes on my DD however, I knew I never wanted her to feel even a millisecond of pain and was here to do what ever it took to make her feel happy, loved and safe.

My MIL always tells me that when DD wakes in the night, go in with the lights off, quick feed, change her nappy and no talking, picking her up or eye contact. Then leave her and she'll go back to sleep. Although yes I get you might not have a big play session at 3 in the morning, but DD and I can express so much love just by looking at each other, how could I deny her that? I know what it was like to get the cold shoulder / no eye contact growing up, I'd never wish that on my daughter.

Course, I co-sleep so technically am following MIL's advice - no lights are turned on, I don't pick her up and my eyes are shut so no real eye contact heh. Course I don't tell the whole truth when she asks.

[krysalyss]

I got this all of yesterday because we are having some sleeping issues with DS having been sick a lot lately. So I was getting some lavender from the chemist and got the whole kit and kaboodle of 'advice'. I said that I don't think the short-term problem of not sleeping justifies the long term psychological damage of controlled crying.

Of course I understand if others make the choice to do it, especially when you are at your ends limit. We all have a limit in how much we can take after all.