thread: Nutition - Is it possible to get a balanced diet?

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  1. #1
    Registered User

    Dec 2006
    In my own private paradise
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    The question for me is, if we were able to get what we need from food, would we ever get sick?

    i think there is a big difference between having a nutrtious diet and being able to avoid illness completely. you might find that you have a stronger immune system if you're better nourished, so things like colds/flu won't kick in to the same degree kwim? we have been growing our own veg, and getting as much of our meat as possible direct from the local farmers (we have a lamb growing on a farm at the moment with our name on it, a pig too - and we're in the process of sourcing a beefer!), and in doing that, i've noticed that i haven't been as susceptible to colds/flu as i was a few years back. until recently, i hadn't had a serious bout of the flu in about 3 years - and i know i got sick more because of stress than anything... i work in a high exposure role when it comes to illness - 250 people in close working conditions - one person gets sick, everyone does, so it was very noticable to me when i didn't get sick at same time as everyone else...

    also - fresh grown vegies just taste a thousand times better!

  2. #2
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    Oct 2006
    By the sea
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    Sorry, I forgot to come back. Here is some info from my book on the role of fat in the diet. The book is "The Essential Guide to Fitness, for the fitness instructor.

    Fats can be ingested in the form of saturated and unsaturated fats. Saturated fats can be found in animal products such as meat and dairy food. Unsaturated fats can be found in seeds, nuts and oils. Fats are broken down to fatty acids and monoglycerides. These are then transported in the lymph system in the form of triglycerides. Cholesterol is found in egg yolk and meats and it's consumption should be minimised. It is not used for energy, but rather as a component of cell membranes.
    The body requires some fat to maintain health. Some vitamins (A and D) are classified as fat-soluble vitamins because they rely on fat to function properly. In addition, fat is required as an essential component of the protective barrier of the nervous system and all cell membranes. Subcutaneous fat in the adipose tisue can insulate and protect the body and also serve as a fuel reserve.
    Fat consumption should generally contribute to approximately 30% of adily KJ intake with no more than approximately 10% from saturated fats. Diets high in saturated fat in particular are associated with the development of heart disease.
    Cholesterol is a substance made predominantly by the liver with the rest coming from the diet. Cholesterol is lost from the body in faeces. Triglycerides and cholesterol are insoluble in water and therefore need a transport mechanism to get around the blood. They are transported in bodily fluids bound to small lipid-protein complexes called lipoproteins. Lipoproteins come in different densities and therefor have different names: high-density lipoproteins (HDLs), low-density lipoproteins (LDLs) and very low-density lipoproteins (VLDLs). The LDLs transport cholseterol to the peripheral tissues and also regulate the production of cholesterol. The HDLs transport cholesterol from the peripheral tissues to to the liver to be broken down. High HDL levels are favourable because the cholesterol is transported to the liver to be broken down. High LDL levels are unfavourable as cholesterol deposits can start to accumulate in the artery walls.

    So from all that I have two questions that I want to know the answers to,
    1. If cholesterol is predominantly made in the liver then do we actually need the extra that is brought in from the diet?
    2. How do we regulate or change our levels of HDLs and LDLs?

    Phew, my arms ache!

    Hope this help clear up some misconceptions that we should eliminate all fat from the diet. And also why diets like the "Atkins Diet" aren't recommended.

  3. #3
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    Oct 2004
    In my Zombie proof fortress.
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    Hope this help clear up some misconceptions that we should eliminate all fat from the diet. And also why diets like the "Atkins Diet" aren't recommended.
    Sorry wrong on Atkins! Atkins done properly actually lowers cholesterol and is a very healthy diet if done with whole foods rather than protien bars and shakes. Will come back to link the article when I have 2 hands free. I am a firm believer that the fad of low fat diets has caused more damage than good to the health of the population.

  4. #4
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    Possibly if you stick to less than 10% saturated fat but most people when on Atkins take the oppertunity to consume foods mainly high in saturated fat. They also risk restriction of important nutrients like calcium, fibre and folate.

    I am a firm believer that the fad of low fat diets has caused more damage than good to the health of the population.

    It depends what you mean by low fat. Low as in 30% of your daily intake then thats what is recommended. Anything less than that and your body will suffer.

  5. #5
    Moderator

    Oct 2004
    In my Zombie proof fortress.
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    Possibly if you stick to less than 10% saturated fat but most people when on Atkins take the oppertunity to consume foods mainly high in saturated fat. They also risk restriction of important nutrients like calcium, fibre and folate. .
    Generally if people do their research and eat wholefoods it is incredibly healthy. The amount of vegetables, especially leafy greens, that you eat is quite amazing. Also I wonder where you get restriction of calcium from, when you can eat products like cheese as well as nuts. Almond meal get used a lot. I never found fibre and issue, it was amazing how much better my bowels were. The basis behind Atkins is lowering carbs, the way to do that is to pick high fibre foods. For example if I was making a meatloaf I would use bran rather than breadcumbs. Whilst foods like butter are unlimited, it is hard to eat much of it, as without carby foods like bread or potato's, there is not much to eat butter with.

    Like anything if people to do not read all the material and base their eating on hearsay, then they are going to get it wrong. These people annoy me as they are the ones giving low carb a very bad name. Also the media tends to focus on these people when they are looking for a sensational story. The ones who eat a 1/2 kilo of bacon at breakfast, believe me when meat it unlimited you get sick of of very quickly and go back to eating sensible portions without feeling hungry.



    It depends what you mean by low fat. Low as in 30% of your daily intake then thats what is recommended. Anything less than that and your body will suffer.
    I mean those people who mistook low fat as meaning they could eat as much as they liked of any food so long as the fat content was low or zero. Many still over ate and just increased their sugar levels instead. The amount of rubbish in many ready to eat low fat products it just scary and I struggle to see how that is seen to be healthier than a leafy green salad with meat, cheese and a good quality whole egg mayo like I would eat on Atkins.

  6. #6
    Registered User

    Oct 2003
    Forestville NSW
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    Man I can't believe I missed this thread!!! ARGH!!!

    I have been very interested in diet and nutrition for years now, changing what we eat, eliminating chemicals and unnecessary preservatives from our diets. We buy mostly market fruit & veg (now) from the grower and we also buy meat from my butcher who can tell me where the cow was raised & where it was slaughtered and how it was done. He does all the small goods butchery himself, can give me lists of ingredients in his marinades if I wanted meat that was in a marinade instead of doing it myself. He cures his ham, he smokes his meats and he makes sausages for others who want special orders. He doesn't use preservatives so he has a big sign that says "If you aren't making it for dinner, please freeze when you get home". He has chemical free meats and chicken... hormone free stuff, organic stuff.... and it tastes so nice.

    Anyway... a year after finishing changing our diets entirely.... I have had serious health issues. I have low B12, Iron, Vit D and calcium levels in my body. How has this happened? I have started with food connect & market buying because I'm obviously not absorbing the nutrients I do eat. (And I do eat leafy salads almost daily, I stir fry and steam I don't boil veges etc etc ). I am now on full time supplements and probiotics, to help my stomach learn to absorb nutrients. It sucks because its like all the hard work in getting our family on track hasn't helped me..... we haven't found a cause for my body not absorbing nutrients yet.

    ETA: and yes we haven't eliminated fats, but we use cold pressed olive oil grown locally and avocados to get fat from. Sometimes in cooking I appreciate a good dark chocolate or we use Nuttlex due to our families milk allergy.

  7. #7
    Moderator

    Oct 2004
    In my Zombie proof fortress.
    6,449

    Anyway... a year after finishing changing our diets entirely.... I have had serious health issues. I have low B12, Iron, Vit D and calcium levels in my body. How has this happened? I have started with food connect & market buying because I'm obviously not absorbing the nutrients I do eat. (And I do eat leafy salads almost daily, I stir fry and steam I don't boil veges etc etc ). I am now on full time supplements and probiotics, to help my stomach learn to absorb nutrients. It sucks because its like all the hard work in getting our family on track hasn't helped me..... we haven't found a cause for my body not absorbing nutrients yet.
    I had that problem and was put on hydrocoloric acid tablets to help with digestion. I suffered from extreme hunger not matter what I ate, especially with foods like pasta. If found they helped. BTW I want you butcher

  8. #8
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    Ahh Christy, that sucks But at least you know that you're providing the best diet for your family, and you're not giving yourself all the extra nasties that come with food thats come from who knows where.

    Do the Dr's have any ideas at all? Is it something to do with stomach acid?

  9. #9
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    Oct 2004
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    Low-carb rated best diet
    By Mike Stobbe July 16, 2008 10:00pm

    THE Atkins diet may have proved itself after all: A low-carb diet and a Mediterranean-style regimen helped people lose more weight than a traditional low-fat diet in one of the longest and largest studies to compare the dueling weight-loss techniques.
    A bigger surprise: The low-carb diet improved cholesterol more than the other two. Some critics had predicted the opposite.

    "It is a vindication," said Abby Bloch of the Dr. Robert C. and Veronica Atkins Foundation, a philanthropy group that honors the Atkins' diet's creator and was the study's main funder.

    However, all three approaches - the low-carb diet, a low-fat diet and a so-called Mediterranean diet - achieved weight loss and improved cholesterol.

    The study is remarkable not only because it lasted two years, much longer than most, but also because of the huge proportion of people who stuck with the diets - 85 percent.

    Researchers approached the Atkins Foundation with the idea for the study. But the foundation played no role in the study's design or reporting of the results, said the lead author, Iris Shai of Ben-Gurion University of the Negev.

    Other experts said the study - being published Thursday in the New England Journal of Medicine - was highly credible.

    "This is a very good group of researchers," said Kelly Brownell, director of Yale University's Rudd Center for Food Policy and Obesity.

    The research was done in a controlled environment - an isolated nuclear research facility in Israel. The 322 participants got their main meal of the day, lunch, at a central cafeteria.

    "The workers can't easily just go out to lunch at a nearby Subway or McDonald's," said Dr. Meir Stampfer, the study's senior author and a professor of epidemiology and nutrition at the Harvard School of Public Health.

    In the cafeteria, the appropriate foods for each diet were identified with colored dots, using red for low-fat, green for Mediterranean and blue for low-carb.

    As for breakfast and dinner, the dieters were counseled on how to stick to their eating plans and were asked to fill out questionnaires on what they ate, Stampfer said.

    The low-fat diet - no more than 30 percent of calories from fat - restricted calories and cholesterol and focused on low-fat grains, vegetables and fruits as options. The Mediterranean diet had similar calorie, fat and cholesterol restrictions, emphasizing poultry, fish, olive oil and nuts.

    The low-carb diet set limits for carbohydrates, but none for calories or fat. It urged dieters to choose vegetarian sources of fat and protein.

    "So not a lot of butter and eggs and cream," said Madelyn Fernstrom, a University of Pittsburgh Medical Center weight management expert who reviewed the study but was not involved in it.

    Most of the participants were men; all men and women in the study got roughly equal amounts of exercise, the study's authors said.

    Average weight loss for those in the low-carb group was 10.3 pounds (4.67 kilograms) after two years. Those in the Mediterranean diet lost 10 pounds (4.54 kilograms), and those on the low-fat regimen dropped 6.5 pounds (2.95 kilograms).

    More surprising were the measures of cholesterol. Critics have long acknowledged that an Atkins-style diet could help people lose weight but feared that over the long term, it may drive up cholesterol because it allows more fat.

    But the low-carb approach seemed to trigger the most improvement in several cholesterol measures, including the ratio of total cholesterol to HDL, the "good" cholesterol. For example, someone with total cholesterol of 200 and an HDL of 50 would have a ratio of 4 to 1. The optimum ratio is 3.5 to 1, according to the American Heart Association.

    Doctors see that ratio as a sign of a patient's risk for hardening of the arteries. "You want that low," Stampfer said.

    The ratio declined by 20 percent in people on the low-carb diet, compared to 16 percent in those on the Mediterranean and 12 percent in low-fat dieters.

    The study is not the first to offer a favorable comparison of an Atkins-like diet. Research published in the Journal of the American Medical Association last year found overweight women on the Atkins plan had slightly better blood pressure and cholesterol readings than those on the low-carb Zone diet, the low-fat Ornish diet and a low-fat diet that followed U.S. government guidelines.

    The heart association has long recommended low-fat diets to reduce heart risks, but some of its leaders have noted the Mediterranean diet has also proven safe and effective.

    The heart association recommends a low-fat diet even more restrictive than the one in the study, said Dr. Robert Eckel, the association's past president who is a professor of medicine at the University of Colorado-Denver.

    It does not recommend the Atkins diet. However, a low-carb approach is consistent with heart association guidelines so long as there are limitations on the kinds of saturated fats often consumed by people on the Atkins diet, Eckel said.

    The new study's results favored the Atkins-like approach less when subgroups such as diabetics and women were examined.

    Among the 36 diabetics, only those on the Mediterranean diet lowered blood sugar levels. Among the 45 women, those on the Mediterranean diet lost the most weight.

    "I think these data suggest that men may be much more responsive to a diet in which there are clear limits on what foods can be consumed," such as an Atkins-like diet, said Dr. William Dietz, of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

    "It suggests that because women have had more experience dieting or losing weight, they're more capable of implementing a more complicated diet," said Dietz, who heads CDC's nutrition unit.

  10. #10
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    Oct 2006
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    "It does not recommend the Atkins diet. However, a low-carb approach is consistent with heart association guidelines so long as there are limitations on the kinds of saturated fats often consumed by people on the Atkins diet, Eckel said. "

    Exactly!

  11. #11
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    Astrid, I see what you mean re the "low-fat" thing. I agree, most low fat packaged products contain way too much salt and sugar and are far worse for you in the long run.

    I think my biggest beef with low carb diets is the effect it has on exercise. Glucose (a form of Carbs) is a major fuel source for the body and when too little carbs are consumed the body uses fat and protein to make energy. The problem is your body takes a lot longer to provide fuel from fat rather than glucose or glycogen so can really only be used when exercising at a low intensity. I think that the majority of the population should be undertaking more exercise and as such should be fueling their bodies appropriately but this is my personal opinion so please don't attack it!
    Last edited by C~Q; August 16th, 2008 at 02:30 PM. : Changed from population as a whole!

  12. #12
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    Oct 2004
    In my Zombie proof fortress.
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    Astrid, I see what you mean re the "low-fat" thing. I agree, most low fat packaged products contain way too much salt and sugar and are far worse for you in the long run.

    I think my biggest beef with low carb diets is the effect it has on exercise. Glucose (a form of Carbs) is a major fuel source for the body and when too little carbs are consumed the body uses fat and protein to make energy. The problem is your body takes a lot longer to provide fuel from fat rather than glucose or glycogen so can really only be used when exercising at a low intensity. I think that the population as a whole should be undertaking more exercise and as such should be fueling their bodies appropriately but this is my personal opinion so please don't attack it!
    Won't attack your opinion, it is just there is just so much myth out there about low carb, Atkins or some other style, that I like to show that is is not just about eating mounds of bacon. Low carb with exercise is something to be careful of, but then so is any eating with exercise. I have know of people who go to the extreme of exercising whilst only drinking juice for breakfast and eating fruit salads for lunch. I suppose it is all about balance and what is best for each individual.

  13. #13
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    Apr 2008
    Melbourne
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    The problem is your body takes a lot longer to provide fuel from fat rather than glucose or glycogen so can really only be used when exercising at a low intensity.
    From someone who has personally suffered "bonking" (yes that is the technical term folks) half way through a triathlon from not consuming enough carbs for dinner the night before I totally agree!

    I am not a fan of low carb diets personally as I find them too restrictive being a vegetarian, however I am all in favour of balance - particularly a balance for the amount of exercise output vs food intake.

    At this point in my life I am being driven by my body and it wants carbs - if I don't eat a high carb dinner at night I am waking at 4am with a rumbling tummy and have to get up and eat to stop from feeling nauseous and headachy. This baby must be doing all night gymnastics in there it's going through that much energy