Un-schooling Discussion

**Jellyfish** · June 8th, 2014, 09:27 AM

Thought some might be interested in this attempt to study unschooling. Maybe it will be a catalyst for more....

"Therefore, this study, by itself, cannot be a basis for strong claims about the experiences and feelings of the whole population of unschoolers. What the study does unambiguously show, however, is that it is possible to take the unschooling route and then go on to a highly satisfying adult life"

http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/fr...rview-findings

For us, we aren't making choices aiming for adulthood. We are living our life right now, our children are living their life right now - so the question for us is what sort of life do we want for our children and family in this moment. If a problem arises in adulthood, we can address it in adulthood. Really, sending a child to school is no guarantee, unschooling is no guarantee, there are no guarantees that a child will even have a future (not to get too morbid). You don't compute in a series of choices and it spits out a certain adult. So I'd be more interested in how they felt about their childhood, whether they felt supported and able to overcome any challenges that presented themselves because of having not attended school, their connection and relationship with their parents and siblings... but it is still interesting to read any sort of study and I'll be interested in reading further.

**wysiwyg** · June 10th, 2014, 09:00 AM

I had read the study as I subscribe to the "Free to Learn Blog". Thought was interesting.

The question that interests me most is "If you choose to have a family/children, do you think you will choose to unschool them? Why or why not?" - there isn't really enough data to answer that yet as not enough have had children yet and is also quite a small sample size - but given the challenges in financially supporting a family and unschooling - I wonder whether if you have been unschooled yourself and loved that path, whether it can be problematic in adult life if not able to financially support unschooling your own children.

"three others, who despite their positive feelings about their own unschooling would, for various reasons, not unschool their own child" - I would be interested to know whether these reasons were financial at all.

**Jellyfish** · June 10th, 2014, 10:45 AM

I'd be interested to read more about that also - and for those who are unschooling or planning to, whether the familiarity of unschooling vs the uncertainty of the mechanics involved in navigating schooling factored into that decision. And for all of the respondents, if they felt any pressure or obligation to parent in a certain way or even just about their world view in general from the way they were parented - how confident they would feel in pursuing a different path I suppose, do they feel supported in that. That is something I think about (not that that is an exclusive to unschooling thing, I know I felt guilt turning away from some of my parents ideals knowing how hard they worked and how much they invested into my education) because I mean, part of this is about giving them space to be who they are but part of it is also a reflection of our ideals so how those two could potentially interact would be something I am interested in being aware of.

**wysiwyg** · June 20th, 2014, 04:11 PM

http://m.psychologytoday.com/blog/fr...-going-college

The second part in the series. Interesting enough but I am more interested in job outcomes than college/uni - I understand why they are focusing on that as it is a question that always comes up about unschooling - but I hope they also look at life and jobs beyond higher education.

**Jellyfish** · June 22nd, 2014, 02:02 PM

I was more interested in careers also and it is now up! Here: Survey of Grown Unschoolers III: Pursuing Careers | Psychology Today

It is interesting. I wonder about the childhood interests part sometimes because our 2yr old has a very definite, clear passion for anatomy and has done for the last 6months+. Mostly human but just yesterday she was asking me "inside monkey too?" as she pointed to various organs so possibly it is expanding. It began with a preference for those sort of books and even now when offered to choose a book at the store or library will more often than not pick one related to anatomy, we have quite the growing collection! But it has grown into everything she does lately - if she is relating something she has seen or heard, it is oh that sounds like a heart, that looks like a brain. She has tea parties with her anatomy model and takes it to bed. She understands so many things about bodies and how they work - the names of organs and some bones, digestion (when she feeds her anatomy model who she calls Mr Sketolen, she has the food traveling through the various parts) and circulation (we have a circulation track with blood trains that transport various passengers around the body) - but the more telling part is she continues to seem infinitely curious to know more, always asking questions like the monkey one above or we were looking at a picture of a uterus with a developing fetus and the first thing she said was "where that go", trying to make sense of where it fit inside a body and then how the baby got out.

Some photos of her anatomy adventures:
Falling asleep with Mr Sketolen (breastfeeding photo)
Hanging out with Mr Sketolen
Hanging out with other Mr Sketolen
Matching things to her book
Circulation

It doesn't really matter to me what the specific interest is but more that she has honed in on something at 2, I'm curious to see it play out. Although using an anatomy model essentially as her doll is really adorable alongside her cute pronunciation of 'sketolen' lol.

**wysiwyg** · June 23rd, 2014, 12:04 AM

Thanks for pointing the last part is out, is interesting to read about the careers. I am currently reading Peter Gray's book Freedom to learn - and there is a section in there about careers of those who have graduated the Sudbury Valley School - which is also very interesting - perhaps for me more interesting as the 'school' model is of particular interest to me (as discussed previously is a model that could potentially be open to a greater cross section of society).

How interesting about your DD - my best friend all through primary school - decided from age about 6 she was going to be vet and became a vet (despite a few life events along the way that may have ended that) - I have always thought it must be wonderful to have that sort of focus.

**sahbear** · June 23rd, 2014, 12:27 AM

Jellyfish, love Mr Sketolens adventures with Ms 2!

**Jellyfish** · June 23rd, 2014, 02:26 AM

She is such fun to watch. They do everything together lol.

With our other DD (who is 5) there are definite glimpses and leanings also. My mum commissioned her for a cityscape artwork piece and after she had completed it she mentioned she would like to have her own art store inside her house when she is older. She is very dedicated to her work, I suppose you could say - patient and a problem solver - her cityscape came together over a number of days, there was planning and waiting for paint to dry between layers and that sort of time and effort is something she regularly invests. She's definitely artistic, in that she sees a lot of potential in the things around her like she found a stick and was instantly rounding up supplies to make a puppet with it yesterday and that's a regular occurrence, an hour after that she was inspired to make a wand from something else. She spends most of her time creating things.

Her cityscape picture. (It is a work building, a hotel, a cake shop and a plant shop - well rounded city I think

)

I do really love getting to spend so much time watching them and getting to know them. And I love them having the space and time to do the things they love and get to know themselves. Sometimes I feel like people are concentrating so hard on the 'otherside' that they forget that life is happening right now, children are people right now, things can be incredible right now. It is interesting to read the accounts of those grown but really, nothing compares to the assurance I feel from just being with my children and seeing them.

**Jellyfish** · June 25th, 2014, 10:33 PM

DP and I were talking about school holidays and DD1 overheard us so we were explaining the concept to her, she said "homeschool is the best school, we can just rest when we're tired and do stuff when we are not tired and go places whenever" pretty much. But it made me wonder how parents of schooled children would feel about their child being exposed to that sort of opinion and how we should handle this.

**wysiwyg** · June 27th, 2014, 06:33 PM

DP and I were talking about school holidays and DD1 overheard us so we were explaining the concept to her, she said "homeschool is the best school, we can just rest when we're tired and do stuff when we are not tired and go places whenever" pretty much. But it made me wonder how parents of schooled children would feel about their child being exposed to that sort of opinion and how we should handle this.

l don't think requires handling at all, just like l wouldn't stop a schooled child telling an unschooled child how great they think their school is and what the things they think are good about it, an unschooled child should express their opinions also, is fine for people to have different views. If my child then asked more about why they have to go to school, l would then explain the reasons and the benefits, and that unschooling is just another option with different benefits. Really kids are far more accepting of people doing things differently, than adults. To me is really no different to DD's cousin telling DD that England is the best place to live, that is her opinion, I wouldn't tell DD her cousin is wrong just that for us we don't think it is.

I assume that for the reverse situation you wouldn't think we should be handling children to not express to your children how great they feel about their form of education e.g school?

**Jellyfish** · June 28th, 2014, 03:54 PM

You're right that wouldn't bother me at all. Just freaking myself out about a potential awkward situation lol.

**wysiwyg** · July 2nd, 2014, 11:44 PM

There is going to be a part IV in the series - I posted a comment on the site

A question I would find interesting to know more about - is for those who were unschooled and who intend to unschool their children, does their chosen career fit well with being able to unschool their children, and if not how do they feel about needing to leave the career behind for a time to be able to unschool their children. Or for those who are not considering unschooling was that decision made in part for financial and career reasons - e.g. impossible to unschool financially, or due to career impact. Or was the path they have chosen in career terms influenced by the fact they knew would want to have children and unschool them so went for something that would fit well, with being home to allow unschooling.

and the answer was

Good question, wysiwyg. I'll say more about this in my fourth and final post on the study. But, in short, at least some who were already unschooling their own children were taking a period of time away from career, or had switched to a career they could do at home. Those (the majority) who did not yet have children of school age seemed to believe that they would work this problem out, between themselves and spouse. But several said that they might opt for a democratic school, in part because that would allow them to keep out-of-home careers

Some of the other comments on the posts are quite interesting - although some are predictable.

**Jellyfish** · July 9th, 2014, 12:34 PM

That is an interesting question. I do think schools will always be a necessity, not exactly for children but for some parents.

**Jellyfish** · July 17th, 2014, 06:41 PM

The fourth installment is here.

It is interesting that the negative experiences don't actually sound like unschooling at all as I understand it.

**wysiwyg** · July 18th, 2014, 12:47 AM

I agree that they don't sound like unschooling, but they are experiences of people whose parents believed they were unschooling them so I suppose that is why have been included. I think these are also an example of cases where school is necessary for the children, because of the parents - schools do have functions in society which are greater than just education.

**Jellyfish** · July 19th, 2014, 12:41 AM

I'm glad they were included because it's really helpful to see what things to be particularly mindful of but it's also reassuring to see how the experiences are so detached from what my family is living.

**Heaven** · October 23rd, 2014, 09:20 AM

.....

**Jellyfish** · October 26th, 2014, 11:02 AM

A Thousand Rivers

I love this also. It is something I've read a few times.

...collecting data on human learning based on children’s behavior in school is like collecting data on killer whales based on their behavior at Sea World.

and this part...

“I just know that there is a certain cognitive window for a child to learn to read and if you miss that window you are going to have problems later on! And for Isabel that window occurred when she was about four years old!”

There was a long moment of silence.

“Granny,” I said, finally. “If you go to school and you can’t read when you’re seven you are going to be stigmatized and humiliated and made incredibly anxious in a way that is going to interfere with your ability to learn in the future. That’s not going to happen to Isabel.”

It is really hard for people to understand how a child learns outside of school because it is rare and so far removed from all the assumptions and influences school brings into the equation.