Does parenting really matter?

[Inanna]

It's taken nearly 24 hours to get back but I've had this on my mind most of my day!

I think parenting matters but like most things in life I think parenting consciously & intentionally "well" isn't a guarantee...

As you know I have 5 children - who really couldn't be more different. My oldest was probably parented with the most attatchment parenting style (simply as she is the oldest & there is a large gap so she was my world)... I wonder at times if this has contributed to her intense need for attention. However, I also don't know if that's how her nature would have been.

Having birthed 5 babies their personalities were evident almost immediately!
Ruby needed attention 24/7 my eyes had to be on her & her needs had to be met immediately & this has always been the way. Intensely interested in her surroundings.
Finn was shocked to be in this World & needed reassurance of my presence & love - and still does. Incredibly intelligent toys were very childish to him - he wanted to think! I am sure he is a very old Soul
Lucy was born fast and furiously. She didn't make a sound as she entered the room - just looked at us all as if to say: "mmm so that's who you all are... She had the most tender eyes & was curious about everything... Gentle but spunky & stunningly gorgeous.
Eva was born much like Finn shocked to be here... A little afraid of this world - and she still is but again stunningly gorgeous and quirky - oh so quirky...
Imogen took me time to get to know but her peaceful but stern hold on herself took me by surprise in those first weeks of her life. She was frail but strong & she still is..

What my long story is telling is that they had a nature. I see it as my role, my job, my contract with them (for I believe they chose me & I them) is to nurture their natures. To lead them, help them build a frame work of a Self. They have to fill in the pieces - for that's their journey... I need to provide them with a soft place to fall, a strong & honourable role model in how I deal with the world, people, love, spirituality, friends, strangers etc etc (perhaps this is the biggest and most significant of all). They have watched me Mother their siblings & that is an amazing gift I am grateful for constantly! Sometimes I see them watch me, take it in & play act with their dolls or my oldest daughter comments that she doesn't know how I can be so patient (trust me I don't believe patience is something I have a lot of...). So, I know the seeds are there, growing little shoots... I know now that when I behave childishly, react from my wounded self - that it's how I recover from that that is important. To say I'm sorry - I was having a moment & well let's have a cuppa...

I don't think I have any tricks of the trade - just trying to show them that we always grow and change and evolve. That they cannot rely on me for everything as I will let them down. That there are other people who can help - so part of my job is to ensure they have good adults that they can turn to for support when they can't come to me...

I grew up as the oldest of two daughters. My mother was a very unstable woman who sadly I reflect probably jsut yearned for her husbands devotion. She picked the wrong apple in my Dad. He was married to the police force. He had the communication skills of a yak & the presence of one too!

I never saw kindness from my Mother - I saw anger, jealousy incredible expectations of others. I can remember being very young and turning to her & saying: "why don't you just tell your friend that you're sad at her"... I remember that like it were yesterday... People always "let her down"... She lived through me. I was pushed to play sport as she was sporty... (I am just the antithesis of sporty!!! - I think running is a ridiculous past time - I much rather walk and smell the air!) I wasn't allowed to speak to boys. I won't go into it all and bore you all but my life was quite hellish. I was beaten with straps, spoons. Locked in my room, called names from the window in front of my friends - every night I would pray to any deity that would hear that my life would be better & that it was my job to do it.
My parents divorced when I was 15 - neither wanted me so I was sent to an Uncle who raped me repeatedly. I ran away and my life began...

Why I say all of this is that my nature is determined. My nature is optimistic. Somewhere I knew the nightmare of much of my early life was part of my story. I chose consciously not to allow that to define me. So that I believe really was my nature. No matter how badly I was parented I knew intrinsically that I was able to turn it around.

I had lots of struggles. Lots of issues to over come & like us all I deal with them still. However, many people have stories similar to mine and they don't come out of it well. They perhaps are addicted to drugs, alcohol, sex... They will do anything to be loved.

I think I did all of the above (I wasn't addicted to drugs or sex) - but I drank too much & I yearned for love. I also have and still struggle with a morbid fear of change. Because my life was so unpredictable. All I wanted was the surety that in 12 months I would still be in this house, living my life etc...

I believe that we all have Karma. That we have predetermined lessons to learn/deal with... That opportunity will arise throughout this lifetime to learn them. If we take up the baton & deal we can burn that karma through... Some of it's small some of it's big.

So it is with our children. That is why I think some people will come from "good" (I hate that term but I get you Rach it's hard to find another one... ) families and turn out with big challenges ahead. It's their nature, their path, or their karma.

However, I think personally that we need to be very very conscious in our parenting. We are the fuel pump - and they will always come to us for the rest of our days we will be their wise person. If we can show them unconditional love. Something I say to my two older kids is that if they are ever in any trouble to tell me & if they don't want to they don't have to explain. But just know I am there, I will pick them up from Texas in the middle of the night - just know that I won't ask questions if that's what you want...

We have been given our intricate little characters to teach us and us them... It's no mistake & the honour is to both of us. So, there is a large amount of nature I think & a good sturdy doseage of nurture. Sometimes I have stood back and thought WTF have I done wrong it's all falling apart...
Then before I know it I am bathing in a gossamer glow of how I've got it all so well sorted...

I suppose for me now after nearly 15 years of parenting I get that I fail, I fall short & they actually live through it and so do I...

Some of my children remember the times I fall down very vividly - others not so. That's their nature...

I have also learned that every time I am really triggered by one of them that this is a big learning moment for me... What is it about me... Sometimes now I can even thank them for being a rat bag as it taught me something special...

But yep - as always I ramble on - forgive me it's late, I'm tired and Ive been pondering this through my day...

I think parenting is so incredibly important. I also think that we are born with a nature that perhaps is swayed by the parenting we receive. It could be our saving grace or our curse...

[Epacris]

Thank you so much each and every one of you for sharing your thoughts and telling your very personal stories. I have hung on every word and expanded my mind. I appreciate so much that BB is a place where we can do this.

[KitFaerie]

Thanks for sharing Inanna, your self awareness is a gift

[~Kim~]

Well Rach, I have thought about this alllllll night last night and today. I doubt I will be as eloquent as the rest of you, but I'll try.

Yes I do.
I totally agree with the PPs who talked about giving the tools for them to utilise in later life.

I have dealt with a whole heap of 'bad' kids. From all sorts of families.
The one thing that separates the kids that come out on top (as a generalisation - there are always exceptions) is a positive role model.
Saying that - the positive role model isn't always the child's biological or legal parent. But the 'parenting' is still there. For example some of the Koori kids have nothing to do with their parents around here, but have great parental role models within their community. I see many kids that get away from their parents for a whole variety of horrendous reasons, and many still gravitate towards someone that is a rolemodel.

I myself are from a 'good' family, I did 'good' things with my life - but those things are totally different to the choices my parents made and have often been in total opposition to what they wanted for me, but the tools they gave me allowed me to do that. I hope for that for my kids.

[Lolli]

Holy wow, what a mind blowing thread. My head hurts from thinking this much about an abstract concept

Erm. Will try and get my thoughts out clearly here, bare with me.

I can say, from the experience of myself and my brother, that parenting really does matter. It's amazing, the very subtle effects that it can have on your personality. Of course a bit of it is going to be genetic as well, but as a child, you see the world the way your parents shape it, and it takes a lot of work as an adult to change the inbuilt perception you are left with. It's just the way your brain is wired.

Having said that, this topic scares me.

It scares me how much i am potentially screwing up my children by not micro-managing the aspects of my parenting.

It scares me, how much i may screw them up if I start micro-managing every aspect of my parenting.

And it scares me how totally out of control of the whole thing I really am.

Because, like PP's have said, you can give your kids the tools to work with, but ultimately you have no control over what life throws at them, or how they handle it. And the older they get, the less a cuddle from mummy will fix.

On a side note, for me, emotional resilience- recognising and acknowledging emotions, and learning the tools to deal with them- is something I will continue to focus on as my kids get older, because it's an area I am very weak in, so not necessarily something they will learn well by observation. That is one thing I can attribute to my parent's parenting- emotions were a rare and rationed commodity in the house I grew up, and I intend for it to be different in my own.

[Fleur]

Having said that, this topic scares me.

It scares me how much i am potentially screwing up my children by not micro-managing the aspects of my parenting.

It scares me, how much i may screw them up if I start micro-managing every aspect of my parenting.

And it scares me how totally out of control of the whole thing I really am.

So true!!

I was thinking about this the other night putting DD2 to bed. DH & I were on the bed with her & she was doing her nightly 'wind-down' and we were talking about the temper that we see in her. Usually she is the sunniest, happiest baby. But she has a temper! And I said boy it will be interesting to see what she's like as a toddler

So that got me thinking about my children's different personalities and how different they are in little ways. Some of it might be attributed to birth order or our family circumstances as they grow. But some things, like DD2's temper, seem to be an innate part of who they are - it's how they were born.

I do think that parenting absolutely matters - as has been said, it's where our children get their tools for life, where they get their first examples of how to be - and how not to be.

But I also think that children will react differently to the same parents / parenting because they are born differently wired.

We have all heard stories of children from horrific backgrounds who rose above it all.. many of them had other good influences around them.
Many of us also know of children from 'good' families who have gone a little sideways in their path...

For me it's like gardening.... a plant might grow & flourish if left untended, but to give it the best chance of really thriving, we water them, feed them, make sure they get sunlight, etc etc.
So we do the same for our children, we nourish them emotionally & hope that we have done enough for them to not just exist but thrive.

Sorry if that's all a bit disjointed I have been thinking about this for days now!

[jackrose]

Interesting timing for me, this thread. I have just been reading a book - given to me by a friend about just this topic. Plus, the concept of nature vs nurture has always been of interest to me.

If anyone is interested, the book is They *%# you up by Oliver James. (think the F word in there .

The book pretty much asserts that parenting is what it is all about, and I do agree with this to an extent. I still haven't finished the book so am not really in a place to give an in depth analysis. Leasha, you touched on the major assertion of the book slightly,

My second thought is... why do kids from the same family turn out so different? Well, everyone has their own experience.

Although further than just the experience each child has with significant others outside the family such as with teacher in your example (good point btw) the experience each child has of the same parent can be very different depending on things such as birth order, gender, timing of birth, stage of life of parent... a myriad of other things... and I would say also, the nature of the child.

My far from thoroughly thought out opinion agrees with KitFaerie. I really like the way you put it:

If you have a selection of 'good' parents, their kids are more likely to function happily in society, BUT, some wont. If you have a selection of 'bad' parents, their kids are more likely to not do so well, BUT some will.

There are just too many extraneous variables to be able to pinpoint one thing that influences emotional growth and development of a person totally.

I'm still going to put my best into my parenting and hope for the best!!!!

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

Of course we screw our children up. That's what being a parent is all about! Giving children neuroses, problems, fears, worries... can you imagine an adult as fearless and confident as a toddler? That's good, you think? No. Some people are like that and for some reason we put those people in charge of our banks. They have no fear about what is going to happen if they do this, no idea of consequences and don't understand we're upset they are still awarding themselves millions in bonuses. We need to mess our children up a bit!

But on a more serious note, we can only do the best we can. And our children have to learn that we are human and make mistakes. The key to good parenting, I feel, is working through those mistakes together. Apologising with grace. Being mindful of the hurt we may do - and have inadvertently caused. Having a relationship close enough that if our child is hurt by us, they will tell us and we can repair it. That we will upset our child is, sadly, a given. How we deal with that upset - that's why parenting is important. IMO.