Disciplining Toddler - where to start?

[ladybird11]

Alrighty, DD is 19mths now and DF and I are seeing our differences when it comes to disciplining her. I think its important that we are on the same page when it comes to disciplining so DD knows whats acceptable and not.

One main difference is that I feel (as an example) that if you leave your mobile phone on a low table while your 19mth old is unsupervised - expect her / him to find it and think its a toy. Hence I think (if it can be avoided) we should move items that we don't want DD to be in contact with - whether it be for her own safety or if its something important (like a document or something).
DF on the other hand says 'shes not silly, she knows what she shouldn't touch' - at her age - I don't buy it. He thinks we should be able to leave anything laying around and expect her to know what she can and can't touch. I think she's too young to know these things. He then would tell her off for touching / moving the item and she ends up in tears.

Of course there are things like the TV, stereo etc which we can't put out of reach of her and we've started to teach her not to touch them (using DF's model).

There are so many different methods of disciplining toddlers, I don't know what is effective and what is not. According to Supernanny my daughter is at an age where if she can reach it - its hers, she wants to touch and explore new things. She isn't doing it to be naughty and look for trouble (as DF thinks). Another book I've started perusing (which actually featured our mod (or ex mod?) Lucy The Australian Baby Guide) says to avoid saying 'no' or 'don't' all the time...

So feel free to comment, assist, help, offer an opinion or share your experience (good and bad) with me!

[Nelle]

We've had that discussion here too. The point that I make to dh is that bub forgets. If you say 'no' and they look at you defiantly and then go for it anyway, you say 'no' and their hand hesitates and then they make a grab - well that's what I call willful defiance. They definitely know and have pushed the boundary, and for us that's where the consequence comes in.

But my rule for dh and his gadgets is - if you leave it out, I can't necessarily protect them from the kids. Even if they do know, they often forget and need to be reminded - and even then, their ability to have self control is extremely low, so they can't reason with themselves as to why they should or shouldn't. They're little and impulsive - I want it, I'll grab it.

So, once you've said something, bub knows, but even then the self control is so hard. You have to help them, even if you've said no but it's right in their face, it's tempting, you need to maybe move them or provide a distraction. And for discipline/consequences, well you will see when bub is having some attitude/testing boundaries and then you enforce them. For our bub it's being moved, or the gadget being put away (where it should have been in the first place).

[Just Me]

There are so many different things that you can do with toddlers and I agree Leesa, that the most important thing is that you and your partner agree and have the same boundaries.

I think toddlers can learn not to touch, but I think they need lots of practice in learning not to touch and you have to choose your battles. There is a reason that you should put all your poisons and dangerous chemicals away - these are not good for practice

I find that things that you don't want touched, but won't break or damage are great things to 'practice' the look but don't touch rule with. If you are concerned about it breaking, just like poisons, it is best left out of reach because as Nell said, it can't necessarily be protected.

Kids can learn not to touch things, but I think it depends how many times a day you want to be saying no and how many battles a day you want to set yourself up for. In my house, I have the kid's DVDs and the TV remote controls within reach of our children. Neither of them can be broken easily nor present a danger to children but both of which I don't feel that it is necessary for our kids to be playing with. We use these to practice the 'looking only' rule or 'these belong to mummy and daddy, not for you.' If they play with them, it's not the end of the world.

On this topic though, I took my DD into a craft shop today. I didn't put her in a pram because I was only going to be in there for a couple of mins but I had a chat to her in the car before we went in about how this was a shop for looking only and not for touching. When we went inside she needed reminding of the rules a few times. One of the times that I reminded her that we were looking and not touching, a lady walked up to me and said 'That is a very difficult thing you are asking your poor little girl to do.' Pfft!!! She could cope with it. She just needed me to remind her. I don't think she was being naughty or defiant, I think she was just so overwhelmed by all the fascinating things she could see that she wanted to touch them and play with them and she forgot what we had talked about. Everytime I reminded her of the rule, she put her hands behind her back and just looked instead of touching. They can cope with it, but they do need supervision.

Anyway, hope all that helps. Sounds like you are doing a good job and consistency in what you do is the key to making any behaviour management plan successful. Good luck

[ladybird11]

Thanks ladies.

Yes, the house is as child proof as I can make it with cupboard locks to cupboards containing poisons etc. And I know the defiance look in DD eyes too.

One thing that makes it difficult is while I'm feeding DS (4 wks) - when DD shows her defiance and goes to touch something I would prefer her not too. I can't enforce any discipline physically - as in, remove the item from her grasp and say 'not to touch'. (I learnt from puppy training () to only tell dogs off when you've caught them in the act - it would be the same for kids too, yeah?) What should I do in that instance for the sake of consitency? Let it go or enforce it later?

I feel although I talk to DF about his old skool methods of discipline - its not necessary and if he gives DD a light smack on the butt then that may give her the idea its ok to hit - and it certainly is not. DF agrees with me on all counts (it helped that I read a book that DF bought me which he thought was fab which actually backed my arguements up). But he still gets taken away in the moments while disciplining and reverts to old habits. He isn't hurting DD at all, don't get me wrong - but its just unfair to DD that he 'expects' her to know so much. Its like he keeps moving the goal posts on her .

Another question - what do you do with a 19mth old (technically 17mths, she was prem) discipline wise? A smack on the fingers lightly / remove her somehow (I don't think she understands the concept of the naughty step or time out yet) books say not to say "no" and "don't" - so what do I say?.
The only thing I can think of is putting her in her high chair and in the hallway where she is out of view from the main parts of the house for 2 mins or so...But some would argue that would associate negative feelings with going in her high chair and then meal times may turn difficult...ARGH!

[Visitor8]

firstly at 16 months she should know there are some things she shouldn't touch.

Mobile phones, telly, dvds etc

Things that she hasn't been told not to touch before like documents ect of COURSE she's not going to know. But at 16 months they are a lot smarter than we give them credit for.

So he is right in some ways. You are right in others. I think it's finding a middle ground.

What I did was teach the kids HOW to use things. How to turn the telly on, change it to DVD and put a DVD on. This stopped them playing with it and they would only touch it to use it properly. They were both doing that before 18 months. And even now Ashton can turn the telly on and i've been trying to teach him to use it.

[Visitor8]

For the sake of your sanity, when your feeding you can put bub down and tend to her naughty behaviour. This is what I've done with all my boys and they knew that just because I was feeding, didn't mean I wouldn't put them in the corner.

FWIW I used the corner from a little over 12 months Worked wonders and still does. One mention of the corner and they start behaving.

[kelebek]

I agree with minimising the use of no and don't and try to use other ways to talk to DS for instance if he is going for the stereo I will say to him to "away from the stereo and come play with this or cuddle me" or whatever...

A suggestion for when you are feeding, can you set up a couple of little boxes that have some stickers and a book and some little snacks like my DS loves, loves sultanas so a little pack of them would be perfect. Then you could give it to her while you are feeding to keep her a little distracted while you are feeding...

I think they can learn not to touch but I don't think it is always a wilful defiance, I think that they are getting attention from it as well as testing of your reactions and boundaries and they just can't help themselves... I also agree that if you leave something within reach then there is always a chance that it is going to get broken so move it. Just my opinion and I have a dp that doesn't always agree

[Crystalwings]

I think it's really important to be consistant and if you say you are going to do something - follow through!!!
I agree with you that young children find it difficult to understand that if you can play with something (such as phone etc) then why can't they? They are egocentric and therefore it is in their nature to try to get to things that belong to mum and dad. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be boundries, only that your df needs to understand what is age appropriate for a 1 yr old. I think time out can be effectively used from 2 onwards, depending on the child.
Instead of saying no and don't you could try saying 'stop' instead. It still has impact but isn't as negative.
Good luck HTH

[amberj]

Just subscribing so I can read properly when I have time because DH and I have this exact same debate!!

[Nelle]

Leesa, I remember feeding #2 and #1 looking so darn smug because he knew he was untouchable while I fed - so I started getting up with #2 still attached. You should have seen him! Haha. So after awhile his behaviour improved during feeds because he knew I could get up.
It also helped to bring a book or snacks with me, so if he was looking cheeky during a feed, I could coax him over to sit next to me and read or eat.

[Crystalwings]

In regards to feeding i have heard that it can be helpful to have a box of special things for your DD to play with that only comes out when you feed. It might contain some stickers, a special doll etc. Maybe she can even help to choose some of the items. This way she is feeling like she gets something special at feed times to and it's not just all about the baby getting mummy's attention.

[Inertia]

I went through this debate with my DH too.. Sadly they are so determined to be right it will take them a couple of mobile phones and digital cameras to learn the very simple fact of - if you don't want it broken, put it up. It doesn't matter what they do and dont understand, it really doesnt. Its dangerous - lock it up. Its expensive and fragile, put it out of reach. Just because they know they shouldnt touch it does not mean they wont - ever.

Plus - it teaches them what they can't touch in a positive manner. You don't have to yell at them for touching it - they cant. You don't have to smack their hand if they damage it - they cant. But they can't reach it so they know they can't have it. Has worked wonders for us.

I don't think they ever grow out of touching things they know they arent allowed to. As they get older its less about willful defiance and more about fully believing that mum and dad don't trust them but they know they wont break it - so.... Discaplining about that is just going to be a never ending cycle of frustration and tears which can be spared by just putting it out of reach in the first place - and accepting that the TV is gonna get dirty and maybe a little bit broken. LOL

[fionas]

Yep, I too work on the principle that if it's valuable it's the parent's responsibility to keep it out of reach.

Plus I think some kids are 'better' than others at learning that some things shouldn't be touched. I think some naturally do as they're told and some are slightly more curious. I know mums at MG who say they only had to say no a few times and their child stopped touching. Well, I've said no consistently literally hundreds of times and the only thing it achieved was making me and DD miserable. So I don't think it's always about consistency - it's about the child's nature too.

So I've chosen to choose my battles, we're a lot happier for it and DD will give stuff back to me when I ask now instead of chucking a tanty.

She's also very good at knowing that she really can't climb all over me when I'm drinking a cup of tea!

[Macca79]

If you really don't want her touching it, put it up out of reach. While she is learning what is ok to play with and what isn't 19 months is still very young. Get your DP to ask his parents if he was any good at not touching at that age. While they look big they are still also in their babyhood at that age.

Also at the end of the day how often do you want to be telling her don't touch, eventually if you say it too much she will just switch off to you and you will feel like a broken record. And if you have another little person in the house explain to DP that you just don't need the extra work and it's no hassle for him to put his phone higher up really.

[Inertia]

Yep, I too work on the principle that if it's valuable it's the parent's responsibility to keep it out of reach.

Exactly. The best way I came up with explaining this to my DH was thusly.

Go to the shop, park your car, leave it open and the keys in the ignition. People are old enough to know they shouldn't steal it just because its there. Let me know how that works out.

Gotta take responsibility for your stuff.

[shellbell3]

We always tried to move things out of reach, I don't think you can blame a 19 month old for touchinh something interesting if we've left it out.
We kept our no touching things for things we couldn't really move like the DVD player, tv, that sort thing, last thing you want to be doing is saying no touching all the time cause they will then just not take any notice. So try pick your battles.

Discipline wise at that age I used to remove her from whatever she was doing and use distraction methods, like we don't play with the tv lets play with this instead, if she kept going back to it then I would move her into a whole other room which she hated and would stop doing it.

[Snacks]

I agree with Nelle about impulse control - I see it with DD all the time. Yes, they are often old enough to understand, but their brains are still developing and controlling the impulse they have to touch (even when they know they're not supposed to) comes later for some kids.
Personally, I am regretful of having used the word 'no' so much with DD - it is her favourite word now. I hate hearing it from her so now I sort of understand how it feels for her to hear it so often from me. If I could do it again, I'd make sure there wasn't so much stuff around that I didn't want her to get into. JME. GL finding common ground with your DP - you are right - it is important that you are both on the same page.