Ok... I'm determined NOT to put you off having a third! Because I love my third little one and he really does make our family feel complete... I think I would have gone crazy if I couldn't have had just "one more". Now, to answer your question: honestly, yes, having had a third has kinda isolated us even more... mainly because there's an unspoken rule that you don't ask another family with kids to look after your kids if you have more than they do. Well that's how it seems to me. I could be wrong about this. So we basically don't leave our kids with anyone anymore. A sitter might come to us... but we pay. We don't have my mum to help out... she lives interstate. Oh and her reaction to us having a third was "OMG you are breeding like rabbits".... yep, nice... but she has never been supportive of anything so why start then? But you are miles ahead of our dismal situation so i'd say go for it!!! My youngest is nearly 3 and time really has flown... before i know it he will be past the super challenging phase and maybe I'll feel ok about leaving them all with other people... it's mainly hard to do this when your children are very young... once they can communicate then people seem happier to take them on for you.
Also, on the other side the coin... virtually no one has asked me to look after their children since I have had my third. I guess they assume I am already over burdened? Maybe they are right... but like I said, we don't have much of a village anyhow. It's kind of a catch-22 situation: you need to be able to particiapte in a village to have a village but by the time you have several children it gets too hard to participate... I think in an ideal world people really should participate in their village BEFORE they need it.... like when they are still single and child-free.... but how many single people want to be stuck at home babysitting when there are "people to meet, places to see" etc. THAT'S the problem... we need our villages when it's too late to create one. Just my experience. My single friends rarely have looked after my children... and it's not as if we haven't helped them out when they needed it... it's just that on the whole they are too "busy" to care for my kids... they are too busy trying to find the right partner so that they can have kids of their own I guess... and maybe THEN they too will quietly wonder where their village is?
Actually it's just the right time for you to build up a village!
Now, remembering that a village isn't free babysitting, it's about being a part of something related to you and the community you live in. So with DS heading off to Kinder/Pre-school, he will be off making friends and you will meet the mums and have chats at pickup/drop offs. Pretty soon he will be saying "can xx come to my house and play?" and you say oh yeah, great! Then its his turn to go visit (and you get free time!), then you discuss with the other mother how much stinking housework you got done without him there, then she says the same etc etc etc.
One day you may be held up and won't be there in time to pick up DS and you know you can call on someone to watch him for awhile and you breathe a sigh of relief and smile because you have your village to help.
You get me? Then all through Primary School there will be after school playdates, birthday parties and you will end up getting to know lots of other parents and you will end up really clicking with at least one of them. Then they are old enough for 'sleepovers' YAY, and you get more time. Then you do a sleepover at your place, then maybe YOU might be called to pick up xxxx after school 'cos mums gone into labour, and THEY smile because they have their village for help.
THEN - 5 years down the track DS is at high school at he wants to go to some party that everyone is going to, but your not sure about it. Then you find out its a xxxx's place and even though you haven't seen his parents for awhile you remember that they were pretty strict and not likely to serve alcohol...or at least have their phone number to give them a ring and find out without a problem at all. OR you are just not sure to allow him to do such and such and all the other kids are allowed to, its wonderful knowing you can call another parent involved and discuss it. Feel me?
I don't think having lots of kids discourages participation, I think it broadens the scope of the village and the opportunity to make more connections, having built relationships back 17 years ago when DD1 was little - I still have some of them now! It's fantastic
I am building more village now DS is at Kinder, and will make more when DD2 goes.
Its actually one of the main reasons I stay at home (broke off my arse) because I have the time to build this up and get to know those kids and families in DS's lives. Lifelong stuff!
Aah - have to spread the love lulu (I don't remember giving you any lovin!! PMSL) Awesome perspective on building the village. Was almost crapping myself thinking I never invested in anything! Not kid related anyway LOL. I'm happy for people to start investing in their own village with my kids tho LOL. And I'd be more than happy to help them out when they have their own!
Yeah... haven't really spoken to any mums yet at the preschool.. do you really stop and talk at the gate?? Everyone seems in such a rush, can't really see opportunity for a chit-chat. Alhto we were early on Tuesday, before they opened the doors, so we were all hovering around.. maybe I need to use that time, when the parents are trapped there waiting for the teacher to open the door and take their child LOL.
It might be a different set up. Is Tallon at a childcare centre type thing? Cos if so, there is never time to even meet another parent....
In Vic we have sessional Kindergarten from age 4 (sometimes 3 if you choose). DS goes 3 days for 3-4 hour sessions, it appears 90% of the mums are SAHMs - its hard if you have to work cos the times are all different.
We have a coffee catch up once a month at the kinder, and do working bees and sausage sizzles etc to raise $$$ for new shades etc etc etc. Always kids running about and siblings crawling over each other..and someone running late without their hair brushed lol
Liz: yep I do the chit chat thing while waiting for my 5yoDS to emerge from his class. So I guess that's a bit about what Lulu was talking about. And I know it's not just all about free baby-sitting... but it is about resource sharing... time, energy, company etc. And I guess with me resources are fairly limited... but I offer what I can... it just seems that very few people take me up on it. I'm quite paranoid that as soon as other parents find out that I don't drive that I am discarded as a potential villager because they worry that I will always ask them for lifts for my children and that I can never reciprocate. I actually make a point of NEVER asking for a lift unless it is offered. I'm the kind of mum that will walk in rain hail and a heatwave if nobody offers a lift. And why shouldn't I drive anyhow? (they must be thinking)... silly inconvenient phobia... I should get over it I guess.
But Lulu I obviously have something wrong with me... I must be really untrustworthy because I offer other parents opportunities to help like "I'll have your child over for a playdate during the school holidays" (because they are a working parent and this might help them out financially)... but no, people don't seem to want to impose... but it makes me fairly paranoid... I mean... is there something wrong with me? And if nobody will accept my help then how can I then ask for it?
I know I don't drive a car... but if their child lives near us (ie across the road in one case!) then their child can at least walk home from school with us!
Ah I dunno... this is dredging up a lot of paranoia and sadness for me.... sorry Liz.
My mum loves all her grandkids - all 20+ of them! LOL. Ok, so she wouldnt look after them all at once, but she'd damn well try! She has been taking care of three under 5 recently as my poor sister has been in and our of hospital with some unknown viral infection (I believe today its pneumonia. Last week it was something else entirely - my dad has it too and so far for him its been pleurisy and a blood clot in the lung. Maybe one day they will work out what it is). It seems like a lot of work, but thats what the village does. I have a huge village - just none of them within 3 hours of me. I think you will find that you will cope amazingly well - and sometimes, just having that second person there with you for a visit is all you need for that day.
Then of course - in the end, this is yours and your DHs decision. I am sure your mum will still love to be a part of yours and your kids lives either way. Its what we mums do.
Oh and Liz I forgot to mention that I totally understand what you mean about the benefits of having someone just "drop round". My FIl used to come and stay with us for a week here and there after my MIL passed away. He is 75 so we would never ask him to babysit but just having him around the house was so settling for the kids... he would sit by their sand pit and listen to their "stories" for hours on end... and gently guide my teen DD toward speaking better with the boys, and not being so cheeky with me... all he had to say was "hey, listen to your mum now" and i would smile inside... it was JUST the ticket!!! It was such a symbiotic relationship... but now he feels too uncomfortable travelling He lives across in Sale (several hours away). He rings me almost once a week for a chat... which is a bit harder for me because the boys tend to play up a bit when i'm on the phone... so i miss this once positive aspect of my village. Oh and FIL had 5 children and was always supportive of having larger families... the more I think about his contribution to the family the more I realise what an asset he has been.
OMG you are all so so lucky to have the help if needed! My nearest relative is 6000km away on the other side of country and all though we moved away it would be nice occasionaly to have some help...with housework of cause LOL!
Even when i had DS who is nearly 7 and we were within a few hundred kms, i only ever had him looked after by DP's sister once for a couple a days while we had a getaway when he was 2yrs, and all i did was fret for the two days until he was bad in my sites so it wasn't even a getaway!
I have always done it on my own with DP and i just couldn't imagine it any other way. I'm certainly not judging anyone, but i don't think you should base your decision for a third on the presumption you will need more "VILLAGE" help, you would cope no matter what because that is what you would have to do....no choice, just do what you have to do to get it done, where not supermums!
Bath - There's nothing wrong with you. I'd accept your help! And I'd be willing to offer help back too. Perhaps its the 'obligation' that comes with accepting help that people don't like. I think this was talked about in another village thread once. *hugs* tho, I know you've struggled with the whole village thing I feel really lucky I have my mum just down the road, and tho it felt silly saying she is my village.. just having that one person can be so much more than others might have.
Lulu - it's a local community preschool, so school hrs only, and by the looks a lot might be sahm's coz there's a lot of younger siblings. And I think there is fundraising and working bees and stuff here too, so I'm going to try and be one of those 'involved' parents.
Hmm.. just thinking.. I did a school pickup for someone else just this Monday! LOL - so i'm part of someone else's village! Woot! I think it could well be that my village is larger than I think, just I haven't had a real need for it, so haven't thought about it.
ETA: Aww Bath, he probably misses his little village of grandkids too. See, while mum sometimes has a grumble (she's a bit of a grumbler LOL) I know she's really enjoying her grandkids. She didn't/doesn't have this constant interaction with my bro's kids, and now they're in canberra, so we hardly see them. So I think she does enjoy it.. I mean, she still calls in all the time! Even if it's just to see how Tallon's day at preschool was.
Thanks girls And yes, Lulu, you're right about how I phrase the offer. I think at the moment my 5yo is still quite shy and I guess hasn't asked for a playdate... and my 14yoDD is fairly independant... althought come to think of it we are briefly connected to the parents of the other year 9 girls at her school... but there aren't the same social opportiunites for parents when your children reach highschool... that's half the problem. And my 2yo doesn't go to childcare or kindy yet... we have dropped playgroup because logistically it doesn't work ATM. But i think you are right... things will improve once I get to know more parents. But everyone really seems so busy... and everyone does seem to have their own extended families that seem to require a lot of their time and energy... I have felt it hard to weave our family into the lives of other families for that reason.
Liz awww, and likewise... it's hard when you meet people on BB who you have so much in common with and who seem so open... then you venture out into the real world and everyone just seems so closed, suspicious, and wary of obligation. I think I'll turn this around and make it a greater priority to attend more BB meetups!!! Shame I couldn't attend the last one at Cai's place... but bring on April!!!
Because I love my third little one and he really does make our family feel complete... I think I would have gone crazy if I couldn't have had just "one more". Now, to answer your question: honestly, yes, having had a third has kinda isolated us even more... mainly because there's an unspoken rule that you don't ask another family with kids to look after your kids if you have more than they do. Well that's how it seems to me. I could be wrong about this. So we basically don't leave our kids with anyone anymore. A sitter might come to us... but we pay. We don't have my mum to help out... she lives interstate. Oh and her reaction to us having a third was "OMG you are breeding like rabbits".... yep, nice... but she has never been supportive of anything so why start then? But you are miles ahead of our dismal situation so i'd say go for it!!!
My youngest is nearly 3 and time really has flown... before i know it he will be past the super challenging phase and maybe I'll feel ok about leaving them all with other people... it's mainly hard to do this when your children are very young... once they can communicate then people seem happier to take them on for you.
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And if nobody will accept my help then how can I then ask for it?
awww, and likewise... it's hard when you meet people on BB who you have so much in common with and who seem so open... then you venture out into the real world and everyone just seems so closed, suspicious, and wary of obligation. I think I'll turn this around and make it a greater priority to attend more BB meetups!!! Shame I couldn't attend the last one at Cai's place... but bring on April!!!
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