How far would you go?

[Smoke Jaguar]

For me, it would depend upon the 'dream' and where everyone else in our family was at.
In the case of 'if he wasn't any good' at the sport he liked, DS may not be very successful in getting us to move somewhere else for more than 2 weeks, put it that way! But I'd do early starts for a sport he wasn't good at but loved all the same.
If I were to become a big dressage star by the time DS is at an age where he is playing sports and is really good, then he may have to learn the art of compromise! However, as that is unlikely to happen, if he were to be a contender for something elite, then I'd consider moving somewhere temporarily for him to give it a red hot go. After all, I have always been one to say 'seize every opportunity', and if that is only allowed to apply to me and DP, then what good am I as a parent?
I'm sure DP would think differently, though. I suggested I could take up the university offer of free travel and accomodation to the Malaysian campus for a semester or two, just to experience it and he didn't even consider the benefits to DS and I, just said "what would I do there? No". So, I don't think he'd consider uprooting himself for someone else's ambitions!
At this stage I have hopes that DS will follow us into either horseriding (convenient, as I ride, too!) or fire brigade comps (convenient, as DP does that and I used to). However, I do realise that he may decide to do something else entirely. I foresee a great future as a stuntman, myself...
I think that I am thinking "I had my time, when it's DS's turn to shine I might have to put myself out for him especially if he's going to be better at what he does than I am at what I do". But even if I AM a champion dressage star, I may decide to shelve it to drive him around to his chosen sport/activity where there are clashes.
It's a tough one.

ETA:

Sacrificing EVERYTHING (or even just ALOT) just makes you another stage mum, and in my opinion there are anough of those already in the world.

Umm, big call, misty! I don't think it means that! Sure, you do get that, but I don't think this applies to most parents who sacrifice a lot for their kids. I mean, geez, I've just realised that I MAY be willing to sacrifice quite a bit for my son's ambitions so that he can say 'well, at least I gave it a go' and now you're calling me a stage mum? Bit 'arsh, chicky! And not applicable in the least, may I add.
Ha! Just thinking of one such parent who moved country for her son's brilliant elite sport prospects in a winter sport. She's moved from California to Vancouver to support her son's ice hockey career (as he's probably a bit young to make the move himself with no family support) and has other kids at home with her DP, as well as older kids from a previous relationship who have their own lives and one in particular a successful career. This mother has had her own stellar career in something non-sporting and probably considers that she's had her time in the sun and can let her kids shine now. For those who haven't guessed yet, I'm talking about Goldie Hawn. Food for thought.

[misty]

I see your point, but I don't think goldie is a great example (what did she really sacrifice). But I was a little too generalistic and OTT with the stage mum comment.

It is a fine line to tread between support and sacrifice. I look at it from the point of view of someone with two kids. I could never condone uprooting the family for a dream unless it was in the best interests of BOTH my children (not just the one who has the dream) as well as my husband and myself. It is not about sacrifice then, but rather compromise and realism.

[Smoke Jaguar]

So, because Goldie's got buckets of money, she doesn't count, she's not a real parent? I think if you were to ask her, she'd consider it to be a big sacrifice to do this to support her son and she'd probably tell you that she's doing it because that's how she feels as a parent. There is no fine line between support and sacrifice for a lot of people - it's one in order to achieve the other. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that there IS no support for a child without personal sacrifice on the part of the parent, unless the parent pays someone unrelated to do all the running around etc...in which case, you could hardly even call that support, just payroll! If compromise means your child with the dream can't follow that dream, then no support has been achieved. That is how the child will feel. And that's who you have to answer to.

[mountain mummy]

My DD LOVES ballet, and has been doing it since she was 2.5 (she is now 4.5) I don't push her - if she doesn't want to go, then we don't go, but if for some other reason, we don't make it, she gets upset and asks every day when she's going back. She is the only one of our 4 kids (so far) who has shown a deep rooted interest in something - my 7.5 yo DS tries something for a couple of months, gets sick of it, goes onto something else. He also gets sick of things where he isn't as good as the other kids, or where he gets ignored completely. Anyway, to the point, my DP and I have always said if DD was really serious about dancing when she is older and (for arguments sake) gets accepted to the Royal Australian Ballet School (or similar) then we would move the whole family. But I think at the end of the day, it is personal choice how much you sacrifice to support your kids.

[Ca Plane Pour Moi]

I guess it depends.

Am I willing to give up something to make someone else very happy? Yes.

DH is willing to find a new job in an area he doesn't know just to make me happy. We'll be moving hundreds of miles - for me. Would we do it if DS needed it, for example he needed to attend a special school in another part of the country? Yup, we'd both do it.

If he loved football then go play, enjoy! Tennis, enjoy! Piano, enjoy! Maths, enjoy! Do what you love! My mother shuttled me around various stages so I could be in my various drama productions. I would have loved it if she'd have stayed to see them! I know she saw most of the different plays once, but you know what children are like, they want it all. I know she didn't see some reviews we did at all, but still supported me with the driving.

I am not going to push DS into a career (even if DH and I would prefer a non-sporting career, that's DS's choice and we didn't pick sporting careers for ourselves so that's us sorted). If he needs help in his chosen field, even if he doesn't end up doing it for a job but just enjoys it, I'll help. 4am starts, fine. Pack the coffee. Moving somewhere else? So long as DH can get a good job nearby we can move.

So long as it doesn't impact negatively on our other (hypothetical and may never exist anyway) children then absolutely fine.

If I had another child who needed me there at 4am, who was left alone so I could help another child pursue a dream, that's not on. Sometimes you have to say - I can't split myself in two. You have equal needs. You live near enough to get out of bed at 3.30 and cycle there; I'll get up and make breakfast and coffee but I have to stay at home. We'll be there for the big things always, but you put some effort in. Not always but at least half the time.

We, as parents, don't have children to dismiss their dreams! We have children because we love them and want to do what's best for them, even if that means sacrificing something we want.

And Holly - I currently live nearish to London. If we don't move your BiL can have some friendly faces nearby - and if we do, England's not that big, if he needs a big home cooked pasta I'm sure we can arrange it for him. People need support!

[christy]

Okay from a child who was ... not pushed, but enjoyed? something that took time, travel, money and energy.

I played music, as an older child. First the initial stuff was hard for my parents, renting instruments. Finding out that I chose the biggest orchestral instrument to move around... (sorry mum!). My family over time had to determine which car to buy, by how many double basses fit in the back! My brother and I both played double bass and by the time I was 13 we were travelling distances to play with "better" orchestras. When I was 15 I went to 3 rehearsals a week outside of school hours, plus one lesson a week. When I was 17 I moved out of home 2 hours away to go to a school of the arts. My family had to drive great distances... they had to drive 2 hours to pick me up and then 2 hours to perform or audition for university. It must have been full on for my family. For my mum. I think of the time she spent driving me to rehearsals, waiting for the hour & half and then driving home. Full on.

Then when I was in university I decided to go for my dream. Selfishly... I was coming to Australia to play in the opera house. I found a way to do it & moved to Sydney. Then I do the unthinkable, and fall in love with a guy overseas.

It did devestate my mother who lived her life to help me achieve mine.... now I don't even play. And my mother is bitter about the years she lost.... (her words...)

So, I'm of mixed minds. If my girls wanted to do something... I would encourage them. I may not separate the family, but I would get up early, I would do the driving, I would give them the opportunity to do it for themselves. Definately without hesitation. We may move the entire family... but we would never separate.

[Girl-23]

When I was watching the Olympics I was struck by how much sacrifice some of the parents have made for their children to compete. Not just getting up at 4am to take them training but in one case leaving the family home, their partner and their other child to move interstate to be close to a certain coach. On another forum I frequent a parent of a gifted winter athlete is contemplating 6 months overseas in our summer to give them the opportunity to train at an elite level.
Would you make a sacrifice like this for you children or would leaving your partner for so long be one step to far?
Where would you draw the line? Or would you not draw a line - nothing is too much to help your children achieve their dreams?

For my child and inshallah (if God wills) future children, but child for the time begin, I would sacrifice everything and anything. Since my husband is also the father of our child, he too would want what's best for her and would take the extra mile to meet her needs and goals. I would move interstate, overseas, anything to make her dreams come true. What some mothers need to understand is that children are forever, your partners might not be. I am not saying you should make your own choices but your child/ren are your first priority. I am not encouraging anyone to break up their happy home because they think they child has special talents, Lol. What I am trying to say is, do everything for your child/ren. Whether its waking up at 4am or moving to another country.

PS: I do love my husband. In case members think otherwise.

[paradise lost]

mmmm....

When i was a kid i LOVED to ride. My parents couldn't really afford lessons and DEFINITELY couldn't afford a horse, so my first few experiences were on a friend's broodmare pony (not really for riding and only broken for riding in the sense that she didn't throw you off for getting on). I loved it. I really really loved it. My parents, well, they weren't unsupportive as such, they didn't actively prevent it, but they didn't really do anything to assist either. I was bought 10 riding lessons for my 10th birthday, by which time i'd bumped about on my friend's pony about 20 times. In the first lesson they split the group into abilities and they put me into the top set. At the end of the block of lessons my instructor wrote "Fearless, sympathetic, confident. Gifted! We can't wait to see her back!" on my comment card. I was never able to go back. I made friends with a girl in school whose uncle had a small stud and i went and rode their horses. I put a lot into it. My dad and brother would drive me about half the time and the other half i would bus it (it was 9 miles to the horses, too far to bike). I would get up, go to school, wednesday and friday i went from school to the stables. Saturday and sunday i got up, went to work at a hotel, finished and went to the stables, got home about 9pm. As a teenager i didn't have a single lie-in for FOUR YEARS. It was EVERYTHING to me. My mum died having only seen me ride once, age 10, in my second riding lesson.

I think dad thought riding was "a girl thing" i was into because i wasn't into boys yet, and my mum was very working class and thought it "wasn't for people like us". This will make little sense to the rest of you but the horse-riders might get it - on my 8th riding lesson i was doing half passes on a school pony! My seat in my teens was so good - i can remember how it felt but i've not ridden regularly for years and so i definitely need practice to get back there, but the last time my dad saw me on horseback i was jumping a 14hh-on-her-tiptoes mare over 105cm barrels bareback.

I do wonder what my dedication would have gotten me if i'd had support. I DID get up at the crack of dawn, save every penny i had and work my butt off, but without much parental support it took all that JUST to be riding regularly.

Conversely i was forced to learn an instrument i hated for SIX years. My parents had no problems paying for lessons (same price as riding) and push push pushing me there (to be fair, it was my mum, not my dad). I think my problem was i was pretty good at lots of things, and they encouraged or supported the things THEY liked and valued, not the ones i did. I was as gifted in riding as i was in the pool, but swimming was "fun time, why do you want to swim laps!?" um...because i'm the fastest in my SCHOOL and i'm not even in training!? I was also in the "gifted" catergory in chess club, art (second best grade in Scotland the year i sat my higher, earning a massive grant for my school department), technical awareness (sat an aptitude test for Rover and got such a good grade, this time the best in scotland, that a private girls college called and offered to waive the 6000GBP/term fee if i went there for my final years) and so on. I do wonder if my parents felt overwhelmed by all the possibilities and just didn't know WHAT to encourage, and i sometimes wish i'd been allowed more input.

I can remember jumping that mare that day and i felt like we were made of fire or air, you riders know how it is when you and the horse are just so in tune, it's like your spines are fused....it was magical. But my mum never saw it, though the day i called her on her birthday to play her the moonlight sonata (i can't play the piano, i just picked a few really hard pieces and practiced ONLY them until they were passable - i can't even sightread the bass cleft, i used blu-tac on the keys to keep track while i was learning!) she wept into the phone with pride. She'd always wanted to learn the piano.....WHY didn't she then!?

So, where do i stand...? I don't know. I don't.

I think i would do anything to allow DD to use her gifts to their full potential. The way i see it is this:

If you had a child with Special Needs and in order for them to have a greater chance of a comfortable or "normal" (whatever that means) life you had to make massive sacrifices and spend masses of money, would you do it? In a heartbeat you would. No WAY would you say to your kid "I know you're in pain/learning nothing in your rubbish school/never going to walk in this PT regime/deeply unhappy, but your brother and sister are settled in their school and we don't really want to move..." You would MAKE it happen. Even if THEIR full potential didn't ever involve the things that other kids/people take completely for granted, like walking, coughing, eating solids, dressing themselves, living independantly, you would do EVERYTHING to help them reach it. So if DD has very demanding gifts that mean in order for her to be living her full potential we'd need to move/spend/sacrifice, can i REALLY offer her less just because she can be "normal" without that input?

I guess genetics play a big part in giftedness, and part of that is having parents who WOULD give up masses to make your dreams happen for you.

Bx