At my wits end...

[MrsFabuloso]

I am so at my wits end. I am tired grumpy snappy and just over it all. I honestly feel like running away, curling into a ball and just crying.
Today I fell apart (again) when DH came home. He was at a work soccer game thing. DD is sick and DS is soooo unsettled. All they are doing is crying and whinging, they're tag teaming each other if it's not one its the other or just for fun its both of them.
DD is just so horrible at the moment. Just today, she has climbed on a dining chair and gotten a big knife off the benchtop, climbed onto the dining chair and got onto the dining table and emptied half a packet of bum wipes, tipped her milk into the tupperware and cupboard, emptied her and DS's clothes from the drawers and cupboards, thrown yet another toilet roll into the toilet, tipped her whole tub of yoghurt onto the table and smeared it everywhere (after she asked to have it), tipped her sultanas all over the carpet, tipped her drink into her lunch after two mouthfuls, threw her water bottle into the porta cot while DS was in it, ripped one of her books up, tipped her drink into one of her battery operated toys (now no longer works)....I can't think of anything else.....I just can't keep up with her. Most of the time I'm in the room with her, sometimes even right next to her. I try not to get angry or frustrated, but I just can't help it sometimes. Its just constant. I tyr to keep her occupied, gie her interesting things to do, play with her alot. But still she does these things.
I'm so sick of being so negative with her. Everything is 'No don't touch...Not for Lily.....stop....Get down...don't climb....No, don't, Stop.....' All the time. She must be sick of it too, I can't imagine it would be very nice for her to hear. I'm worried I'm going to damage ehr self esteem somehow or something. She's just going to think she's naughty and act naughty because of it, but I don't know what to do, I've tryied everything I know. DH has no patience for her either and tells her she's naughty and stuff like that. I hate listening to him talk to her. I have asked him to treat her with respect but I just have no energy to try to teach him how, to follow through. I have to try to teach Lily all day, let alone trying to teach him too.
I can't clean anything cause she just wreaks things behind me, or stands at my legs whinging. My house is really filthy and I just feel so out of sorts when it's like this. I feel so down and depressed cause I feel like I can't catch up. I'm constantly chasing my tail. I have piles of washed clothes that have been sitting in the baskets for a week now. The washing up has been in the sink for two days. I get it half done before I have to do something else for one of the kids.
I feel trapped in my house. We live in a 3rd floor unit and it's so hard to get down the stairs with both kids on my own. Liam is 6.6kgs now and Lily 11kgs, plus my bag their bag, the capsule...by the end of it I'm carrying about 20kgs extra. And now DS is getting too big for the capsule so I won't be able to use that to carry him down (I have him in the capsule and DD in the peanutshell sling on my hip, hold the bags in my 'free' hand). It's such an effort to get out and especially back up again. Besides that we have no spare money to go anywhere with. Not that I need money to go everywhere, but its nice to have sometimes.
DH is ignoring that there is any problem, and I guess so am I. I have tried to ask him if he's happy, why he's angry, but he takes it literally for the point in time I ask him. I'm just too tired to try to prise information from him. I'm too tired to try to explain how feel. After screaming at DH for no good reason today, I just couldn't do it anymore, I went into DD's room (only free room in the place) and fell apart. When I was crying, he came into the room and said 'what are you doing' I said (in between sobs, with a tear stained swollen face) 'quietly going insane' and he walked out, leaving DD with me. I feel so...ugh. Everything is an effort.
I told the MCHN how I feel and that I'm teary, and I did the test thing you do a thousand times. She said I was almost borderline depressed, and offered for strangers to come into my home to help with my children (I don't want help from strangers). By that time, DS was screaming, DD was getting onto the table to get to the taps they have there and into the desk drawer pulling out all of the pens and stuff. She did nothing to help, and just kept on talking at me. So I just said thanks but no and left. I have no good friends to help or talk to. My mum has other things to worry about and gets stressed when looking after Lily anyway. I don't really have anyone else.
I'm just so over it.

[Cassius2]

Oh Lilias, just really felt the need to give you massive hugs. sorry that they have to be cyber ones, but they too can be good!

I really feel for you. unfortunately sometimes our DHs are just too frikkin scared of what's going on with us, that yeah, like what your DH did they go into shutdown mode. i know that this isnt of much use to you, but just want to reassure you that it's not that he doesnt want to help, it's just that when they dont know how to help they tend to flee. my DH uses his soccer refereeing ALL THE TIME as a place to escape (that's where he is now...all day and will be home after 9pm tonight...urgghh).

listen, those edinburgh tests for PND are a useful tool to try to figure out what may be in the realm of possibility. they should be treated as a guide only. at the end of the day, if you dont like that way you feel then stuff what the test says and go for more help. i ALWAYS came up borderline on those things, but you know what? at the end of the day i just didnt like where i was or where i was going. it took months to come to the point where i had to say enough was enough and i began the search for support.

unfortunately MACH nurses are just not doing the right thing by mums overall these days. no time, no money, no security = no continuity of care. i had to search elsewhere (mostly here on BB and through PANDA). i recommend the work of the ppl at PANDA (or your state equivalent...they can offer some really sturdy practical support to help get us through the long days).

hugs sweetie. i know exactly how it feels to be basically stuck in a house all day, cause the reality of having to spend money to go anywhere and do anything can be inhibiting.

take care sweetie you deserve it.

[Lulu]

Oooooooooooooh babe .

OMG I know the feeling, especially when the house is a mess. It makes every thing 100 times worse.
Leave silly old DH, he can sort himself out - he's big enough to take care of himself and he is certainly not doing anything to help you at all.

What kind of help did the MCHN offer to you? I understand that you don't want strangers helping, but have a think about it for a sec. Most people do that sort of job because they care and want to help people (certainly NOT for the $$$!), so they aren't going to be judging you. It may be worth considering even if its a chance to get on top of the housework, maybe once or twice?

Once I was so desperate to clean up my filthy kitchen so I popped both kids into the kitchen sinks (big novelty value that one, they stay there for ages) to keep them out from my feet. One of Dp's mates walked in much to my horror, took one look at us all and gave me a hug. He said he remembered those days with his little ones, it's the same for everyone we just have to get through it. It was kinda nice coming from somewhere I didn't expect it and certainly made me feel better. Its not that we are not coping, its that there is SO MUCH to do.

Sometimes I go the opposite way when DD gets ridiculous (I never want to see yogurt again btw). So if she does the yogurt body painting I just smile and say "aren't you a funny bugger!", it totally takes the wind out of her naughty sails and I feel better about not being negative all day long.

I've got some more weapons but I have to go now as my two are throwing sand at each other right now..........

But more of these for you XOXOXOXOXOXXOXOXOXOX

[Snacks]

Aw babes, I'm so sorry! I had no idea you were doing it so tough!
Please, I'd love to come and help out this week - will PM you.
You are amazing, mate. Truly awesome for doing all you do. Lil is no doubt reacting to all the changes that have been happening. I just read Mel's (Aremeh) thread before and people are saying that the older sibling often takes a couple of months to realise the little one is staying for good and so they may react a bit badly, and play up.
I wish I could come around straight away! I'm just so sorry. Big hugs to you, babe.

[mrsmac]

You poor darling! I know that feeling where it all gets too much and you just want it all to go away I have been there myself many times. Do you have any particular feelings about mediaction if it is depression ? I am on anti dperessants and found it really helped with that hopeless feeling where you just feel like you are trapped under a thick black fog, it won't cure everything but it helps.
Its such a shame your mum is no help, mine was my lifeline with the 2 girls, I have found it so terribly hard with Riley now that mum's not here.
Please let someone help you if they offer, its so hard to do but it WILL help. Let Amy come over she is very calming when you feel really bad I know from experience

[StrawberryMumma]

Aww matey, I bet any one of us could have written your post..huge Those feelings of chasing your tail with housework, washing lying everywhere (clean, dirty, wet or smelly!), being pulled at all day long, never being able to actually FINISH a job or get on top of things, picking up dropped food a thousand times in one day..and feeling so hopeless and too tired to think rationally...it goes on and on sometimes doesn't it?

I hope someone can pop over to give you a little hand. Maybe just even do your washing for you? Great offer to go and visit Amy! xx Lulu is right too in saying, that when the house is a pigsty it really does make things seem a whole lot worse doesn't it.

Hang in there hun, stuff the washing, stuff the dishes, and the dirty house..Things will get done one day..and tomorrow can you leave the kids with DH, even for just 30 mins and go and grab a big coffee and a mag and sit somewhere nice and switch off for a bit?
Gosh we love our kids to bits but sometimes you just need to not feel them tugging at your clothes for even just a few minutes a day don't you?

Lots of love

[MrsFabuloso]

Thankyou so much girls, you've all got me teary again, LOL!

It's been a long day. With DD sick and DS so clingy and unsettled (hope he's not getting sick too) I've just had a tough time. But its not just today. I've had too many teary days for it to just be hard days and lack of sleep. I don't feel so overwhelmed every day, but still it's at least maybe once or twice a week I end up in tears. And that's not normal for anyone! On those days I just feel like I can't handle the kids and everything else on my own. I try to put on a happy face for the kids especially Lily, cause she ends up crying with me if I cry in front of her, (and that's not healthy for her either). I might go to my gp and see what she says since the MCHN was a bit useless.

Clare thankyou for your hugs, cyber ones are almost as nice as real ones! I will look up some of the sites for derpression.

Lulu, LOL @ putting the kids in the sink! I have tried giving DD a bucket of warm water on towelsm with a few utensils etc and taking her clothes and nappy off for her to play in. It worked the first time, she played for aaaages, but everytime after that she's poo'ed in the bucket, LOL!! So I have given up on the bucket idea.
I usually don't stress about DD making a mess with her food. But it's at every meal, it ends up on the floor or her or both. Today she actually pelted her spoon full of yoghurt across the room and then proceeded to tip out the whole tub and rub it into the high chair and herself. It was just the last straw.

Amy thankyou. Its kinda good you can't come over here straight away...the place is a pigsty, LOL!! I know Lily is probably out of sorts with Liam being here now. And being sick but her behaviour is so constant, and she does dangerous things, like grabbing the knife, standing on chairs and tables and even getting out to the balcony by herself. I just can't watch her all the time to keep her sfae. She stresses me out!! I dread when shes a teenager!

Mrsmac, not too sure about medication. I haven't really thought about it. Though I would rather not go that way. I think it would be managable without medicating myself. Plus I'm bf'ing, not sure how that would affect things. You're lucky you have good support from family, mines a bit hit and miss I'm afraid.

Lee, yep DH said he'd take DD out tomorrow. He thinks cause DS is bf he can't take him too...good excuse huh? Oh well I don't mind DS, at least he stays in the same place I leave him, LOL!

Again thanks for all the support it really helps to know others have done it and are all good!

[Snacks]

Its kinda good you can't come over here straight away...the place is a pigsty

OMG - I'd feel right at home!!! Let me know what you decide. If it is more help I can come sans Natty. Anyway I have PM'ed. Whatever you decide works for me.

[mrsmac]

Kellie I BF Riley whilst on meds and everything was OK.
Amy I can mind Nat tomorrow if you need me to.

[Cassius2]

i think i know exactly how you feel. I would have a good run of good days then be out for a few days not coping. because of the good days i thought that maybe i didnt have a legitimate claim to PND. it wasnt until i spoke to someone at panda that they told me that it completely normal to be on a roller coaster.

i though panda org au (it also has a link for self-management strategies) was good. beyondblue isnt bad either...

if it turns out that you have pnd, dont despair, you're certainly not alone (recent data showing that AT LEAST 1 in 7 girls will have it at some point). and it doesnt have to be a forever thing, you can be you again (as i have found out!). there are some awesome girls on here that are/have travelled the same path and we have a pretty good support network happening...JIC.

[Janie]

Kellie, big, massive hugs matey

Let Amy come over, she seems like a great chick ! I'm sure she won't be bothered by your mess (we all know what it's like, my place is like 8 bombs went off ATM ), and apart from the lovely, adult, female company, you will end up feeling like you've acheived something! Let her play with the kids while you scrub to your hearts content. Seriously, I bet you will feel soooo much better. And don't go killing yourself to clean up before she gets there (though I bet you will!).

I really wish I could come over and help you out myself, even just bring you a meal or something. Please try not to stress about the house, just concentrate on yourself and your kiddies. I know you can't see it ATM, but there is a light at the end of this tunnel.

[mrsmac]

Kellie- Amy has coped with my disgusting house many times and trust me she is not the type to be phased by it, even her mum copes well with my grotty living style.

[Lulu]

Danni, I found a chunk of crumbed chicken stuck to the wall of the lounge the other day, and I am even more embarrassed to admit there has been many occasions that I used a paint scraper to clean down my dining table (not cos I don't clean it often but because my children are food artistes)

You need a bigger list of things to do for DD, you can't do the same thing more than once a week .

Here are my suggestions, although your DD is younger than mine so feel free to write them off!

Rice - aahhhh we love rice here. I get a sheet, put it on the floor and roll up the edges a bit. Put a packet of rice in a bowl in the middle and a few plastic cups and yogurt (aaahhh I hate the stuff) containers in. DD will sit for ages tipping rice from one container to the other. Its not as messy as you think, you will have to vacuum after but I like the sound of the rice clinking up the hose and DD likes to do it herself, yay!

Give her a few magazines to rip to shreds

Is she too young for playdough? Thats always a winner

I have a few others but they involve being outside. It isn't going to get any better with the kids and the stairs at your place, is there any chance you could move to somewhere with a backyard or courtyard?

Do try putting her in the sink with some bubbles and bath toys, you have to stay in there with her of course but it can keep her happy whilst you fiddle in the kitchen.

Stick her in the bath with a tea set, no water in the bath but in the tea set ifkwim?

And FFS, don't get all precious about using the electronic babysitter, if an hour so or of the wiggles gives you a chat to put your feet up, then so be it *. You're in survival mode now. It won't be forever.

Lemme hear it now girls "this too shall pass!"

Has anyone got anymore ideas??? Speak up!!

Oh and on the DH thing, as much as I wanna say f-off to your hubby being so unsupportive, it doesn't get you anywhere. Maybe you might want to write a little note telling him that you are pretty overwhelmed with everything right now and you need him to help perk you up a little, could he please come home tonight and give you a big protective cuddle and a warm kiss to make you better? Stick it to his keys or something.

IMHO lotsa guys feel useless and confronted when it comes to an upset wife and they sorta don't know what to do, you have show them sometimes. Everything is different post babies and no2 brings a whole new dimension to things

* please note, constant replays of the same kids DVD can cause facial tics...


Oh man I can TALK!!!! hth

[fionas]

OK, I'm just going to tackle the trapped in the house problem. I've been there - I couldn't get out of the house for the first six months with DD because of a dodgy pelvis and the diffciulties I had with steps at the front of the house. I completely know what it's like - you're stuck in the house, you know that going out would be good for your psyche but you're also surrounded by mess so you think you should tidy that up before you go out but it seems like organising nappy bags and all the rest of it takes soooo long only to be met with the physical challenge of getting out.

But ... you have to do it because getting out helps keep everything else in perspective and at least it will mean that you don't have to worry about DD throwing food around or getting on to the balcony. When you're stuck in the house all day staring at mess it just looks so insurmountable and hopeless. After a few hours out and about ... it just looks like what it is ... a bit of mess.

Living on the third floor would be really, really difficult. Is there anyone else in the building who could give you a hand with getting down the stairs?

Ask DH to think of a solution - gives him a logistical problem to think of and men like having problems to solve.

Could you pack your bags the night before maybe so that's one less thing to worry about and you could grab and go maybe with a packed lunch? I know you said that you don't have many places to go but I feel like a new woman even if I've just wandered around a shopping centre doing window shopping/people watching and sat in the food court. For a long time I thought a trip to Kmart was the most exciting thing on the planet LOL! A park would be even better - let DD run her little legs off.

Please accept help from people - everyone needs help, we just need to be brave enough to accept it sometimes.

I do agree with Lulu - I think you guys should consider moving somewhere it will be easier to get out of.

[Arimeh]

Jesus Kel I could have written the exact same post for myself!! At least its nice to know that I'm not alone with my housebound misery!!!

I so wish you lived closer to me, so either I could come over to visit you at your pigsty, or you could come and visit me at mine!! (Fancy a move to the Sunny Coast at all? )

Our kids are at such similar ages - and I SO understand the tag team whinging - or both at the same time - the worst here is when I'm trying to settle her - and he's screaming high pitched about some stupid thing - arghhhh - its soooo very frustrating.

My mum took him today - since he's been difficult all week and I needed a break. So DH and I both got stuck into the housework. So my house is reasonably clean (which is good, got a BB member coming over tomorrow!!) but - it won't last very long at all!!!! these toddlers - OMG - search and destroy missioners I swear.

I have no useful advice - other than the fact that I think you should let Amy come over and help you - (AMYYYY COME HERE TOOO!!!)

But god woman - I'm so in your shoes too babe.... feel free to give me a call and we can whinge and whine and complain to each other

[mrsmac]

Is it possible for you to move? I know Riley is heaps better if he can go outside and it makes me feel better too. Lil sounds like she needs to release a lot of energy (like all toddlers) so living somehwere with a yard would be great for her. Or come and visit one of us with a yard!

[MrsFabuloso]

Thanks for the support again ladies, I really appreciate it, it means alot.

I have been feeling better the past few days. Though today may be a bit of a struggle after having two really abd nights with the kids and DH on night shifts. I really feel it when I don't get much sleep. Though the kids have been pretty good, especially Lil. She really feels my moods which sucks. My mum came over unexpectedly the other day and helped me clean up the place. It really makes a difference for me and how I feel. Not so chaotic, and disorganised.

Clare, thankyou for those websites, I looked on them and I have a fair fwe of the idicators for depression and PND, so I guess I will have to go to the dr. I think I should be able to self manage it with the support of DH and my family (something I will have to work on). I'm not worried if I have depression. I know it's fixable and usually not permanent. And I know why it's happening, I have had huge changes happen in my life having two kids in two yrs!

Janie, Amy and I are going to be meeting up again and undoubtedly have a big chat while the girls run riot! I wish you could come over too (I would love to meet you, not to mention my house is particularly clean to day, LOL!!!!)

Mrsmac, thankyou. I know everyone has tough times with managing everything (kids, home, yada yada) it's one of my flaws- being a perfectionist (apparently a trait of being a virgo). If I can't do things 110% I tend not to do it half arsed, so it doesn't get done kwim? I'm sure Amy wouldn't care less about my pigsty, but I do...
We would love to move, but at the moment it would be at a loss for us to sell . We will be moving one day though i hate living here.

Lulu, I know about the food artistes...I have one
I have tried a fair few things with DD. And yep, I can't do the same thing too many times or she gets bored. Done the magazines and playdough. She loves messy play, but when I gave her paint to finger paint she looked at me like I was crazy! I give her flour and water to play with and coloured water and containers. The rice and tea set are a great ideas and she will love them! (I think a teaset for chrissy is in order...) Thanks.
Nope, not too proud to use the tv sometimes. Though she doesn't really watch it. Maybe for 5-10mins at a time, which is better than nothing I guess. She will usually only watch when on my lap though, but it is a rest for me when Im really tired and over things (ie, her!). LOL @ the facial tics....mine are brought on by In the Night Garden....if I ever see that freaking ninkynonk again....well someone might get hurt!!
As for DH well, he really is supportive, just in other ways. He doesn't handle my emotions well and hates it when I cry. I don't help the issue by finding things hard to talk about and explain, therefore not talking. He's really feeling things too and I think he's just overwhelmed. He brought me flowers the other day, which was really lovely (though all I thought of was that there's $30 we can't afford). He likes to be constructive and do things. He gets up with DD when he's not working and lets me sleep and takes her out for the day, stuff like that.

Fiona, yeah, I know it's worth the effort when I get out. I really try to go out when DH is working at least to mums or the shops. I have a few places I can go to, like my mums, my grandmas, shops....but it really is sooooo much effort and when I'm feeling down the benefit isn't what I'm thinking of, kwim??

Mel, hehe, wish you lived closer too...we do seem to have pretty similar lives. Would love to live on the sunnycoast and may well do one day, but not just yet. We might be going up that way in the new yr though to visit DH's family. But it feels good knowing i'm not alone.

[Arimeh]

Kel - I'm glad you are feeling better lately.. I think sometimes we have great days, and other days - just aren't worth getting out of bed for!!!

You can call me anytime you need a chat though!!!!

And definitely consider the move to the Sunny Coast... I need more friends!!! LOL