10 things breastfeeding advocates should stop saying

I've got a few train of thoughts running at the same time, so I'll try to put down a couple of points and hope that they make sense, lol.

We are all living in a society where FF has become increasingly common, and breastfeeding (especially extended breastfeeding), is less common than it used to be. I think that when a woman succeeds at breastfeeding they are often very proud of what they have achieved (rightfully :) ).

Unfortunately when a woman that has breastfed talks about her achievement, it can often upset and hurt someone that has FF. I think in the majority of cases it is probably unintentional. And while I believe that the FF mothers have nothing to be guilty or ashamed of, I can understand that they may feel that way when the motto of "breast is best" is announced so often. But at the end of the day, most FF mothers have done what needed to be done in the "best" interest of their child and they should be proud :)

I don't think that we (as a society) should stop promoting breastfeeding as the "best" way to feed a baby. In most cases the FF mothers probably would have loved to have been able to breastfeed and I'm sure they agree that it would be better if we could increase the number of children that are breastfed (and breastfed for longer). This should be done through education and the healthy promotion of breastfeeding. It's for this reason that I breastfeed regularly (and proudly) in public, am a breastmilk donor, and am happy to announce that I am proud to breastfeed.

Having said that, I am always careful with my language around FF mothers and make sure that they are aware that I in no way think they are doing anything wrong, because they certainly are not.

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I prefer positive statements too...however its not obvious to some people on what not to say...I have experienced it before...even here on BB. :)

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A few people have posted that they have seen similar comments to the OP here on BB. I haven't seen them, and i take a look at most sections. Are they reported and deleted, or are they still there to be read?

Tinks today you have rocked my world. I like both of the articles.

Whilst I appreciate that one article is negative and one positive, I think it's important to have the negative things that are sometimes said acknowledged before you can move onto the positive.


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A few people have posted that they have seen similar comments to the OP here on BB. I haven't seen them, and i take a look at most sections. Are they reported and deleted, or are they still there to be read?

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If you really have not seen them I'm happy to go looking. Some comments may not be direct but they certainly are implied. Will get back to you :)

Sometimes I wonder if just talking about breastfeeding being easy, or convenient, or even a case of determination is enough to imply that ff is the opposite of these thing...like HotI I am surprised to hear pp say negative comments towards ff have been posted on bb. Sure I have read some very probreastfeeding threads, but nothing that outright relegates ff.
Bf is the toughest thing I have ever done...that's all I usually say.

OK... Confession. Although I have NEVER said any of those things, I have thought one or two of them. But it's taken me almost a full 12 months to appreciate the BF journey I've been on. It wasn't easy to start with & we certainly had some big potholes along the way. Only now can I say with full conviction that BFing is damn hard & it isn't for everyone.

I, as a bit of a breastfeeding zealot, will try harder to sympatise with my FFing sisters. there are challenges there that I don't appreciate, and obvious feelings that I can't feel.

Incidentally, I get the major crankies on when people say other people can't make you feel something. That's a giant load of BS that hurtful people say to deflect any level of empathy & responsibility for their words & actions. Contrast that with "Moms should be smart enough to see through formula marketing". By the same token, marketing can't make you buy things, but they are extremely good at dressing things up to make you think you need them. Sure - if you called me names & told me my parenting was substandard/abnormal (actually, abnormal would be a compliment to me!), and that I was compromising the health of my baby, I WILL feel bad because there's that horrible little voice that says "what if they're right?!". And that voice stays there are 3am when the smart part of me (that says tells me those accusations are a load of lies & I'm doing the right thing) is asleep.

Ok... rambling over. ;)

With respect, is it really necessary to nit pick over when or where these things were said, on BB or IRL? There are many women here who are saying they have heard them before, be it outright or implied... that should be enough for us all to recognise that a bit of respect & tact is called for when talking to any mother about ANY aspect of her parenting. Especially when it comes to feeding, which we all do. And lets face it, if we all care about parenting enough to sit on a forum & yack about it, we must care enough to make the best choices we can :lol:

I have always said, and always will say that breastfeeding needs more normalisation and support from society in general. My first two children were FF (after short attempts at BF) and in hindsight I know it was because I didn't know what I know now. I don't feel guilty. I did my best, then. But if someone back then had said any of this to me, I would have been devastated.

I like both lists, Tinks thanks for posting.

This is awhile ago post this huge thread was eventually closed because some bullying (not my words) occurred. What was started in a FF thread ended up being a FF vs BF kind of thing. It was confronting at the time and I'm glad it hasn't occurred in such severity since, however, we do occasionally see FF threads being hijacked and what starts off as a good supportive threads ends in a FF vs BF thing. Sad really.

Considering threads have been closed over it- its no wonder some FFers get abit sensitive when a support thread turns into a "you choose to feel guilty, we don't make you feel that way" thing...and then it gets to the point that people don't want to post their real feelings.

Anyway...seen afew of you have said "where does this occur on BB?" well here is an example :)

Look HERE

Delphmoon - thanks for posting that thread and can I just UGGG that thread is horrible! I am ashamed to be a mother sometimes when I read things like that :(

I'm not sure why this is in the FF thread, either, because this is actually a very useful thread for everyone, and could be in the general BB&F section.
There are BFing 'advocates' and there are BFing advocates - there are people who are better off keeping their traps shut. I have never come across an ABA counsellor, or anyone in any of the ABA groups I've been part of who has even thought these things, and anyone who does think these things is best left off the Christmas card list.
When I was having BFing establishment issues with DS I didn't even tell MYSELF that 'breast is best', let alone think it appropriate to 'should' anyone else!
I take the points to actually mean that saying these things UNDERMINES breastfeeding, breastfeeding establishment and breastfeeding retention. How can they help anyone? If anyone had told me any of these things to try to ensure I'd stick at breastfeeding, I'd have probably thrown a punch.
So, you can lump all of us breastfeeders together in a deluded attempt to justify your own decisions, or you could just share the post with everyone, have a good roll of the eyes with an "I know, can you believe people say these things?" and know that you don't have to answer to anyone but your children. You make your decisions based on the best information you have at any given time.
I have no time for people who give prescriptions based on their own values in life - better to use your energy just living your life and being constructive about things, instead of wedging negativity and doubt into others.
In fact, I believe this thread belongs in a more generalised area because it would be a good message for a much wider audience, including people who thought they were doing some kind of community service by perpetuating these ideas. Isn't it better to take your issues with certain 'breastfeeding advocates' to those 'breastfeeding advocates'?
By using the term 'breastfeeding advocates', many people do believe that there is only one sort. I'm continually surprised by how many people I come across who don't realise that ABA breastfeeding counsellors and MCHN's are two very different things! At least I haven't read the term 'nipple nazi' in relation to ABA for a while - thank goodness, cos that was driving me batty, as I've never known a bunch of less judgmental and more helpful people in my life.
Judgment has no place in mothering and mother support. So, I, too, condemn these inane and counter-productive statements. Real breastfeeding advocates have far bigger fish to fry, like the wider system that lets mums down and leaves them high and dry with very little ongoing support (and gives them a big Baby Bonus thinking they've solved all parenting obstacles...).
Anyone who values or is encouraging breastfeeding doesn't need to do it at the expense of formula feeding mums - it can stand on its own merits, when you know what you're talking about :) Even ABA says that 'breast is for baby, not baby for breast' - so when it's not working and you've given it a red hot go with great support, it's not working.

I'm sorry, I'm confused.........is this a Formula Feeding discussion & SUPPORT or am I in the wrong section. Seriously, am I in the wrong section?

thanks for posting tinks.

i saw this on fb as well & it was making me think that there's a fine line between being supportive of someone trying to BF (i.e. trying to be encouraging in a 'you can do it' way) and making them feel that there is only one choice & they have failed if they don't BF. i always try to respond to threads where someone is struggling with BFing & i hope i never say anything that could be construed in a negative way. this has made me more aware that i need to choose my words carefully & not just post blindly.

fwiw, i never really notice which forum things appear in - i always use the new posts search & then just read the threads that jump out at me.

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thanks for posting tinks.
fwiw, i never really notice which forum things appear in - i always use the new posts search & then just read the threads that jump out at me.

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I'm the same! I just read the title of the thread and see if it's something I am interested in

well I'm sorry but there are different sections & threads for a reason, I'm not saying that what you have said is at all wrong, just that you should always know where you are posting for the very reason each section has it's own division. So again, is this not a discussion & SUPPORT thread for Formula Feeding??? or was this posted somwhere else & then moved?

it is about support but then again, unless i have something supportive or constructive (if someone has asked for feedback) to offer, i don't post.

Erin I don't know why you capitalised 'support'...nobody here is being unsupportive as far as I can see. The nature of the article IMO encourages comment from both FF and BFers, I don't think the OP's intention was for only FFers to post?

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well I'm sorry but there are different sections & threads for a reason, I'm not saying that what you have said is at all wrong, just that you should always know where you are posting for the very reason each section has it's own division. So again, is this not a discussion & SUPPORT thread for Formula Feeding??? or was this posted somwhere else & then moved?

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It was started here, not moved. As far as I can see it's supportive of FF... :dunno:

The post is useful, and I think it would serve a far greater purpose to be in a different section. Perhaps a mod could move it? Otherwise, anyone can read and post in this section.
I prefer not to support new mums with negative references to formula feeding mums, so I can't see how sniggering about the dumb things some well-meaning (sometimes not) and less-informed people say materially or emotionally supports a mum who has had to use formula.
I think it's encumbent on all of us to counter ignorance, not just formula feeders, and not just breastfeeders. Ignorance doesn't serve us as mothers, does it?

then perhaps this should be moved. Is that not why we join in on certain groups so that we can have that discussion on some points that sometimes not all agree with but we feel comfortable with it in a specific section?. Yeah I highlighted it & no I don't agree that all answers have been supportive at all. It is still a FF thread.

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The post is useful, and I think it would serve a far greater purpose to be in a different section. Perhaps a mod could move it? Otherwise, anyone can read and post in this section.
I prefer not to support new mums with negative references to formula feeding mums, so I can't see how sniggering about the dumb things some well-meaning (sometimes not) and less-informed people say materially or emotionally supports a mum who has had to use formula.
I think it's encumbent on all of us to counter ignorance, not just formula feeders, and not just breastfeeders. Ignorance doesn't serve us as mothers, does it?

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tell you what- cut and paste it if you want and have your discussion about whatever it is you want in whatever place you want it.

It was posted here to give FF mums the opportunity to discuss their experience and maybe debrief alittle.

Copy and paste it into wherever you want and over intellectualise the issue there and leave us to discuss what we are in a "formula feeding discussion and support" group for!!

Thankyou!!

Bah. THIS is why there is this seemingly great 'divide' between FF and BF...not because people are not doing what is best for their babies (because anyone who truly believes a FF mum is not doing her best at the time for her baby doesn't need to be listened to), but because there's this perception that we need to segregate FF and BF mums. For practical things like questions and support, yeah sure, I can see how only a FF mum can really help with a FF question, but this article lends itself to discussion from both parties for goodness sake! It's that attitude which causes this 'divide'..."oh no, a FF/BF mum is trying to discuss something which I happen to have chosen! It must be an attack! They BF/FF, and that makes me feel bad about my choice, I can no longer have a conversation without becoming defensive!" It happens with both types of mothers and it drives me batty! Own your choices ladies, don't feel bad about them. I'm a huge BFing advocate (and not the type that is blanketed in the article, there are advocates and then there are 'advocates'), but really, come on, you don't see FF babies walking around with two heads! Yes there are some risks. It's a synthetic product afterall, but they are minimal! At the end of the day nobody will be able to tell your child apart from a BF child, they are healthy and smart and beautiful like the rest of 'em. So just own it instead of getting defensive over the stupid, insensitive minority of people telling you you're not doing it right.

Rant over.

So sad that such a great op has once again turned to this.

Kaz, I knew you'd love the group; they're ace, aren't they? Glad you've got a great bunch of people to share your dual experience with and have somewhere you feel you belong - I hope you grow to love them as much as I do :) And thanks for sharing about it here, too - I hope it doesn't get lost in the false dichotomy :(

The problem is PZ, this thread wasn't even intended to be about what you are saying. It was to empower women to have responses and to have something to say when confronted with scenarios. There was no discussion of BF mums etc...it was about FFers.

And why shouldn't we be entitled to a group like everyone else. There are groups for people TTC, TTC + 6 months, TTC +1 year, LTTC etc. Does that segregate people...no...it recognizes that possibility the psychological needs of each group differ.

The nerve of some people to come into a thread and say "this doesn't belong here" etc...Hello....the discussion was going quite fine until all that started.

The posts are directed at breastfeeding advocates, no? Surely the point is to try and help advocates avoid hurtful (and ultimately unhelpful) statements and try to find more positive ways to go about things?
If it's only for an audience of formula feeders, then what was the purpose?

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Kaz, I knew you'd love the group; they're ace, aren't they? Glad you've got a great bunch of people to share your dual experience with and have somewhere you feel you belong - I hope you grow to love them as much as I do :) And thanks for sharing about it here, too - I hope it doesn't get lost in the false dichotomy :(

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And your in here because ???????? :rolleyes:

I actually agree that it belongs here! I thought Kel coming in, as much as I usually agree with and respect her, really disrupted things. Also note my OP... I found the article fantastic. What I don't find fantastic is people saying to move it, blah blah. It's good as is IMO, everyone can still see it. I think we're on the same page Delph ;)

So instead of helping people learn to be more supportive and tactful and avoid hurting FFers, you would rather they butt out of 'your' area so you can brainstorm ways to combat their comments (even if they are not intending to be hurtful)?? That seems to be counterproductive, don't we all want to be on the same side here? I don't think ANY breastfeeder wants to alienate or hurt a FFer. I certaintly don't and would rather know these things, I want to understand... but we aren't welcome... confused :(

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The posts are directed at breastfeeding advocates, no? Surely the point is to try and help advocates avoid hurtful (and ultimately unhelpful) statements and try to find more positive ways to go about things?
If it's only for an audience of formula feeders, then what was the purpose?

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This was also the point I was trying to make :)

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The posts are directed at breastfeeding advocates, no? Surely the point is to try and help advocates avoid hurtful (and ultimately unhelpful) statements and try to find more positive ways to go about things?
If it's only for an audience of formula feeders, then what was the purpose?

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Earlier in the discussion Kelly mentioned this was in the wrong place. I asked her to move it to a more appropriate section. Later on in the thread we agreed it would stay here.

By all means move it, I never put threads in the right places and always get into trouble for it lol.

I did see your post as being what you say PZ :)

I said it was interesting it was here and I posed a question do you think it would be better where it would reach all people regardless of how they feed their babies. But a decision has been made, the only thing stopping it from carrying on is off topic posts. FF'ers regularly jump into BF'ing threads and we don't tell anyone to nick off as it's our area. I did say happy with it here, carry on and enjoy.... so lets just carry on shall we?

Delphmoon, I hope you soon realise that BB was set up for MOTHERS to support each other, not some idea of sub-sections of mothers to support each other in cocoons. This is the first time in my whole membership that I've been told I don't belong somewhere. And I've posted in TTC, LTTC, and Loss forums, as a member who hasn't got personal experience to share, and plenty of empathy and understanding, esp because I have IRL friends who have experienced these things. Just as IRL I have friends (*gasp*) who use formula, comp-feed and who breastfeed.
Just because you don't see the value in mine or other posts, doesn't mean someone else hasn't, so please don't play the exclusion game. You underscore the OP's point by doing this, and it's really unfriendly of you to tell me to shut up when I'm agreeing with the OP. It's not the BB way...

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If it's only for an audience of formula feeders, then what was the purpose?

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Empowerment, discussion, to share thoughts- you know that sort of thing.

Sure Tinks, that's cool. It's just that people were asking why "others" were chipping in and I wasn't sure why it wasn't welcome.
I think maybe we're all actually on the same side here :D

Tinks and Kel - apologies for bringing up that it be moved again, just seemed to still be an issue about who is a valid contributor, KWIM? :doh: yet another apple cart tumbles!

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Delphmoon, I hope you soon realise that BB was set up for MOTHERS to support each other, not some idea of sub-sections of mothers to support each other in cocoons. This is the first time in my whole membership that I've been told I don't belong somewhere. And I've posted in TTC, LTTC, and Loss forums, as a member who hasn't got personal experience to share, and plenty of empathy and understanding, esp because I have IRL friends who have experienced these things. Just as IRL I have friends (*gasp*) who use formula, comp-feed and who breastfeed.
Just because you don't see the value in mine or other posts, doesn't mean someone else hasn't, so please don't play the exclusion game. You underscore the OP's point by doing this, and it's really unfriendly of you to tell me to shut up when I'm agreeing with the OP. It's not the BB way...

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You havn't offered anything other than criticism..What have you got to say about the actual thread other than "I prefer not to support new mums with negative references to formula feeding mums, so I can't see how sniggering about the dumb things some well-meaning (sometimes not) and less-informed people say materially or emotionally supports a mum who has had to use formula.
I think it's encumbent on all of us to counter ignorance, not just formula feeders, and not just breastfeeders. Ignorance doesn't serve us as mothers, does it? "

What are you talking about?

I am surprised and I spose driven by the countless PMs I am currently getting from people who feel the same way I do...I'm sick of this and I'm completely done with this thread!!

There was no need for a question to be turned into WWIII.

If you feel yourself getting drawn in, emotional and carried away with a thread then its time to step away until a time when you feel level again. Lets get this back on track, we'll remove OT posts so that this can keep going forward.

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There was no need for a question to be turned into WWIII.

If you feel yourself getting drawn in, emotional and carried away with a thread then its time to step away until a time when you feel level again. Lets get this back on track, we'll remove OT posts so that this can keep going forward.

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I agree, except I'd leave the OT posts so people can see how the thread progressed back to being on topic. It annoys me sometimes when posts go (unless they're flaming, trolling, overly rude etc) because the thread doesn't make as much sense (to me anyway :) )

Well to change the topic (perhaps) I felt awful when I FF my sons. I BF them from birth without a hitch but it fell off the rails when I returned to work and had to pump. Flynn made it to 9 months and Ollie to 7 months but I couldn't keep up my supply. Personally I have never experienced any of the comments in the OP but I hated giving my boys formula. It felt like an inferior product. My DH even commented he felt awful when he had to feed them formula, especially in public. We felt like bad parents. There is no way in hell I am giving my daughter formula this time around - part of the reason I took 12 months mat leave this time was to maintain my BFing as long as I can.

So I can completely understand how FF mums feel attacked.