need your help

[BandL]

Hi. I posted in the "introduce yourself" thread but thort i might get better exposure if i posted my own!

We are Blaine & Larney from Adelaide.
We are really looking for some help and advice. We want to start a family together but are just not sure where to start.
Can anyone share with us how they have concieved or reccommend some gay-friendly obstertricians to go speak with?
We would really like to take my egg and put in her, but i think that counts as surrogacy and i have read that SA does not allow that for same-sex couples.
Has anyone else done this? Or are we just being too nieve thinking that the law will even allow us to?

We are not really part of any gay communities or anything so we are not sure how most lesbian couples are concieving. So if anyone can share it would be really helpful.

We look forward to any response.
B and L.

[DrGirl72]

hi B and L, welcome- this reply will be short as am on phone. I am also in adelaide and have 3 children. All have known donor and one through ivf. Will try to get on computer in next 24 hours to give u more details re my experience and as reproductive laws- have not yet mastered breastfeeding and typing yet so promise to be back but not sure when!

[BandL]

Hey DrGirl, Thank you for replying.
We look forward to hearing about your experiences.
Talk soon.

[caztea]

Hey BandL,

I don't have advice - but i'm interested to know what you find out re: surrogacy When my partner & I get to our second pregnancy, we may wish to take the same path.

I'm wondering if legally there needs to be a medical condition preventing a mum from carrying before you're allowed to go with surrogacy? Interested to hear!

Do you have a donor?

Caz

[BandL]

Hi Caz, thanks for reply.


Yes, from what i've read of S.A. laws, surrogacy is only available to straight couples who have medical conditions.
But we would be prepared to go to another state if the laws are different..??
We are also thinking of giving birth in either NSW or WA as i believe both mums can have their names on the baby's birth certificate! Lucky for us we have family in both states!

As for a donor, we havnt spoken to them yet, But we would love for our brothers to donate. (as in her bro/my egg or vice-versa), as this is the closest possible way for our baby to have both our DNA!
We are not actually planning to start TTC until late this year. So atm we just want to start preparing and get as much info as we can before the time comes!

Anyway, thanks again for replying and if you do happen to find out any info regarding our hopes and dreams, we would love to hear!

B.

[Sally2]

Welcome ladies!
With the new laws passed in January, both Mum's can have their name on the birth certificate, just need to sign a stat dec as the non birth Mum saying you consented to treatment to conceive baby together, thereby awarding you all the rights of the bio mum HOORAY!!! Doesn't matter what state either, it's a federal law.
The same laws now give access to lesbian women for accessing IVF including annonymous donor sperm if that is the way you want to go. It's a more expensive option, but you are covered legally in terms of there is no recognised father who can later sue for custody and there is no one to contest you both being on the birth certificate. If you know who the father is ie a known donor with at home insemination, or using someone you know and going through an IVF clinic, you legally have to name him on the birth certificate.....
I would definitely recommend getting a referral from a GP for a Fertility Specialist and going to see someone to ask about surrogacy etc as they will be able to give you accurate info about the possiblities, cost etc. If the one you speak to seems anti lesbian mums, just go and see another one until you find someone who can help you.
Melbourne IVF are really gay frendly, but with the laws coming in, they have a shortage of donor sperm, as do most IVF clinics as women are taking advantage of the new access.
Good luck on your journey girls!!

[Beth-n-Sara]

Hi Blaine & Larney.

Welcome to BellyBelly. There is so much info out there its hard to absorb it all, especially when your so excited about starting your family.

My partner and I are also planning on doing the egg mummy/ tummy mummy thing, using Sara's eggs to get me pregnant. We are having a break from it all at the moment though after doing a few IUI's last year.
I think you will find in regards to the surrogacy thing it will be much much simpler if you donate your eggs to your partner rather than trying to nut out the legalities of surrogacy. And like Sally2 said; you will both be legal parent regardless of what the paperwork at your fertility clinic says. Although the having both mums on the birth certificate is NOT Federal law, while lots of the new laws regarding same sex families are Federal the birth certificate thing is still state law. In QLD we still can't have both parents on the birth certificate, hopefully this is changing soon. I'm not sure about SA but you can in NSW, WA, VIC and TAS so who knows.( We Queenslanders are famous for being behind the times LOL)

Like others have suggested its a good idea to get a referral to a fertility specialist now as some clinics have a waiting list for IVF even if you BYO sperm. Also if you are using a known donor they will require the donation to be frozen and quarantined for 6 months before they use it. This is to cover their legal bum bums in case of diseases.
I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong but my understanding of the legalities surrounding donor sperm is that because they are a donor they are not a legal parent in any way, so you would technically be breaking the law if you listed them on the birth certificate. Births, deaths and marriages will require their details though but this wont be listed on the actual certificate. If you list a donor as a parent you are also setting yourself up for huge dramas with centerlink too(regarding child matanece payments). I got this info from a legal guide to same sex parenting called "talking Turkey" (google it, its great) It is a NSW guide but heaps of the info is relevant aus wide.
OMG I'm rambling, I hope this is all making sense.

The other thing it will be good to find out now from your clinic is the cost of the IVF treatment, You wont be eligible for any Medicare rebate as you have no fertility issues so everything will be out of pocket.

Your other options for getting pregnant and IUI at the clinic (were the sperm is inserted through a catheter into your uterus at the time of ovulation) which is much cheaper than IVF. Or if you have a know donor you could always DIY at home.

The other thing I wanted to say is don't get too caught up in having DNA from both or you or carrying each others bub. The moment your baby it born in wont matter one bit who's related to who. You'll BOTH be loving doting parents (I'm sure some of the girls on here who have children on here will back that up). Love makes a family.
That said, if this is how you want to create your family don't let anyone stand in your way! I have spoken to other women who have used their partner's eggs, and they were a bit cold towards me when I was asking them questions about how it all worked. But they had done it at the end of very long difficult fertility treatments, as an only option to fall pregnant. I got the impression they thought I was being silly and just "playing house" trying to create an idealistic family.

I'll stop now. I feel like I'm writing a novel, lol.
Good luck with everything, I truly wish you all the best. If you have any questions just ask. Don't be a stranger. Everyone on here is lovely and very helpful.

-Beth.

[levi78]

Hi B& L,

firstly ill reply to the bit that Beth mentioned "I have spoken to other women who have used their partner's eggs, and they were a bit cold towards me when I was asking them questions about how it all worked. But they had done it at the end of very long difficult fertility treatments, as an only option to fall pregnant. I got the impression they thought I was being silly and just "playing house" trying to create an idealistic family."

I guess women in general become cynical and annoyed sometimes when people ask questions - from where I stand questions are the only way to educate people - so I was always fine with questions. But I guess from talking to other lesbians in the community around the nation - there is some annoyance at the idealistic attitudes of some women trying to create "ideal" families.

What always helped me was trying to look at it from "what is in the best interests of the child?" - somethings work for some women and some things don't - however you MUST consider what will happen to your child if your relationship breaks down. My advice to women from past experience is to document everything - go and see a lawyer and draw up an agreement between yourself and your partner and the donor if there is one - and you want him to have contact with the child regularly or otherwise. You can do this for free if you feel you have the knowledge by lodging Orders by Consent with the Family Court of Australia.

Beth is correct - you can not put your partners name on the birth certificate in all states and territories. Births, Deaths and Marriages are a State jurisdiction not a Commonwealth one - so Orders by Consent are the best way to document your intentions at the time the baby is born between yourself and your partner - if the event that your relationship breaks down. If you use a known donor - go and see a lawyer and draw up an agreement - and include every detail that you want included. Do NOT leave anything to chance. Things do not always end well and not everyone stays friends - sure people start out with the right intentions but when a baby arrives - people become very determined to do it their way.

I have seen many lesbian women leave it to chance and lose heavily. Finanically and with regard to children - not everything ends as you initally intended.

When you make your decisions ensure that you will be happy with that decision if the relationship breaks down - and if you have reservations - go back to the drawing board. This is especially relevant with regard to a known donor. Don't take risks on the permise that it "will be ok!" It is too late once the "deed" is done.

With regard to Medicare and Centrelink - you need to be correctly informed. I know women who have had to jump through hoops with Centrelink in order to get the Baby Bonus and the FTB etc - when they have used a known donor. It is a mindfield to navigate and not everyone in the Australian community is as progressive as we would like them to be. I have encountered numerous situations where people have been discriminated against - by saying that they used a known donor - myself included.

My only advice is be very careful - we all begin with the same intentions - but not always do things go to plan - and sometimes things change.

I have used a known donor and have also been through IVF and IUI through a clinic - on different occasions. All options have their negatives and positives. The difficulty is navigating your way through the minefield - and coming out the other side with an option that everyone is happy with.

Best of luck - this is onyl advice that i have learned along the way - I hope it assists someone.

Cheers
Levi

[Nurse27]

hey there,

i am from SA so can provide you with some SA specifics;

1) Currently only people with diagnosed medical infertility can access IVF/IUI in SA.

2) Only one mum can go on the birth certificate in SA - under father it will read either unknown, or donor - not sure which - cos we havent made it that far.

As far as carrying the others egg/embryo - we asked the exact same question of our doc, and were told that once an embryo is created it belongs to both parents and we can choose what to do with it - so if we want the other mum to carry it - then it can be done.

good luck with things - if you have any questions just pm me

[Sally2]

Oh, I feel silly.... I thought the name addition came in federally.....cause of Centrelink recognising both mums as parents in regard to child support etc. Maybe that's from state to state too?
How stupid that it is STILL not clear and not the same from state to state....when will they catch up????? Grrrrrr

[Nurse27]

Oh i SOOOOO agree with you Sally(s) !

SA is very conservative towards this sort of thing, and has just been left behind by so many other states - but of course the centrelink law changes apply (cos they don't want to give away money to people)! It is so frustrating that things like that are not all federal !

congrats on your new pregnancy btw! here's hoping this baby cooks a bit longer than your last

[Sally2]

Thanks Kaz, we are hoping for a fully baked take home baby this time too!!

[BandL]

WOW!! Thankyou, all of you. So much info! Where to start??!! lol

Well i have to say, Sally2, i like your advice on the GP's. I have been worried about going to one incase they are anti gay parents... But hey, there is nothing stopping us from getting second & third opinions, is there! We will go thru every doc surgery in Adelaide if we have to!!
So i think that is where we will start. At least then we will know exactly what we can and cant do.

Beth-n-Sara, I Love the "egg mummy/tummy mummy" thing. That is so cute! For our first we plan for me to be the egg mummy, and Larney will carry (as she has done it before (previous relationship) and i am shh** scared. lol), But i will be giving it a go in a couple of years time!

I think you will find in regards to the surrogacy thing it will be much much simpler if you donate your eggs to your partner rather than trying to nut out the legalities of surrogacy.

I am just wondering, Could you explain to me how this works? Does she have to have a medical condition or something wrong with her own eggs for them to allow this? And how does the IUI process work with that?? This might be a stupid question, but can they put someone elses egg in you, unfertilised??



Levi78, Great advice and info, thankyou so much. I had always planned to draw up some sort of agreement with our donor, i am very cautious there. But i hadnt thort about an agreement with my partner... As depressing and horrible it is to think about.. it is a sensible thing to do! We will look into it. So thankyou for the info on the 'Orders by Consent' thing.

As far as carrying the others egg/embryo - we asked the exact same question of our doc, and were told that once an embryo is created it belongs to both parents and we can choose what to do with it - so if we want the other mum to carry it - then it can be done.

Hi Nurse27, i am just wondering, you confirmed that IVF and IUI is only available in SA to medically infertile women... So how can they create an embryo for us?? Isnt that IVF??

So do you have any children yet? Or are you ttc?? Because you are in adelaide aswell i am eager to hear how other adelaide lesbo mums are concieving!!
I am really interested to hear from DrGirl72 as she is also in Adelaide and has 3 children already, and i want to know HOW DID SHE DO IT???? lol


ANYWAY.... Thanks again to all of you.. You have all been so helpful and kind. I look forward to talking to everyone some more.. and hopefully in a years time i too can give some advice to a beginner!

But first things first, and i think that would be to go find a GP who wants to help us!

Thanks again,
B.

[DrGirl72]

Hi BandL, sorry my reply has taken so long and apologies for any typos as am typing one handed with my baby on my lap! I had my first 2 children with my ex DP. She was the biological mum for them both and we conceived them using a known donor, a 3ml syringe and it was a DIY job at home. We were lucky to conceive fair;y quickly both times (3rd go for DS1 and 2nd go for DS2). We did investigate using a clinic but in SA in1996/97 we didnt get very far at all with that! I left my ex DP a bit over 5 years ago and our 2 sons live half time (week about) with each of us (another separate and long story). My DP and I started TTC with a known donor almost 3 years ago (a different donor to DS1 and DS2). After about a year of no BFP we both had some tests, he had some sperm issues and I had a short luteal phase and low progesterone- but it was unclear how this may be affecting fertility. We saw an ob (not FS) and tried clomid with no success. At that point we were referred to repromed. You are correct that in SA you have to be "medically infertile" rather than "socially infertile" to access reproductive technologies. However, the definition of medically infertile can be somewhat subjective and is up to the individual FS. We started IVF (ICSI in fact), still using our known donor and conceived DS3 on our third cycle. He is now almost ten weeks old. It is a complex area and I would be more than happy to chat more with you either on the phone or in person over coffee etc. PM if you'd like to be in touch. Re a good GP, I have some suggestions and also believe that ALMA (Australian Lesbian Medical Association) now keep a register of medical pratitioners recommended by other lesbians. Hope this is helpful... have lots more I could say but one handed typing is not that easy! Good luck on your journey