Parenting Orders - any info?

[nhklh]

We don't have a parenting order for DS who is nearly 4. I (non-bio mum) have admitted him to hospital twice, enrolled him in kindergarten and school, no questions asked, no problems whatsoever. I receive FTB for him as well.

DP is on his birth certificate, we had to provide a stat dec saying we used a known donor, and "not stated" appears under father. I wanted to register the birth so that I could be listed as the "informant" on the bottom, but it wasn't allowed.

[Natas]

Dear nhklh

I was pleased to read your posting. I am considering using a known donor but they do not want to be exposed to any legal ramifications if they are listed on the birth certificate. I wasnt sure if you could put "not stated" under father......b/c I thought that the registrar of birth / marriages .... could question you for not including the father's details if they are known.......

Were you advised by a solicitor to write "not stated" for father on the birth certificate. Is it acceptable, normal practice to use a stat declaration if one chooses not to put the father's details?

kind regards
Nat

[Macca79]

Hi
Just a curiosity question. What will you tell your kids when they ask or want to know about who fathered them? I only ask as my sister in law has no name on her birth certificate for 'father' and she has found it hard to deal with in her life particularly when questioned by employers etc about it.
Jen

[Indadhanu]

Hi Macca.

We used an unknown donor, and it will be very open in our house as to how our little one came about. The donor is available to contact once our child turns 18. We have some information that we can tell them.

But TBH, I'm not sure why an employer would need to now about who fathered a child...?

[DrGirl72]

Hi Macca, my two sons were conceived using a known donor. They have also been told the truth that a nice man helped their mummies have them by giving us his sperm etc (at an age appropriate level). The donor lives interstate and as such was not part of our daily lives. When my eldest was about four or five he wanted to know more about the "nice man". We told him his name, they spoke on the phone and then visited in person (there had been previous visits but without it being made explicit that he was the donor). The donor sees the boys once or twice a year when we are in the same state. Like Alisia I cannot imagine why an employer would ever need a birth cert. I guess if there was some reason, then in the case of my children they would just explain that they have two mums but only one is on the birth certificate because of the silly Australian laws at the time!

[nhklh]

Were you advised by a solicitor to write "not stated" for father on the birth certificate. Is it acceptable, normal practice to use a stat declaration if one chooses not to put the father's details?

When we filled out the form for the birth certificate I think we wrote "donor" under father. They sent it back, requesting the stat dec. The stat dec had to declare that DP conceived via self-insemination, she has never lived with or had a relationship with the donor, and they have never had sex with each other.

When the birth certificate came it had DP's name under mother, and "not stated" under father.

We are in SA by the way.

When DP first applied for family tax benefit at Centrelink we had to meet with a social worker (we knew we had to do this, and told THEM that's what we had to do), tell them there was nobody legally responsible for child support, write a statement, and away we went.

If you have the donor's name on the birth certificate they will go after him for child support etc. Our donor's name is on NOTHING. We do not tell anyone at all his name.

[nhklh]

What will you tell your kids when they ask or want to know about who fathered them?

The truth, of course.

I only ask as my sister in law has no name on her birth certificate for 'father' and she has found it hard to deal with in her life particularly when questioned by employers etc about it.

I have never ever had an employer see my birth certificate, I can't imagine why this would be necessary, and what business it could be of theirs to query an employee's parentage.

[Macca79]

Im not sure why her employer questioned her on this as it was only a story she told me in passing. I was mainly curious to know how others would deal with it from a parents perspective. Knowing my sister in law and how it has effected her prompted my question. At the end of the day does anyone really know how not knowing who made you can effect your life regardless of how lovingly you have been raised and cared for?

[Indadhanu]

Macca... in a way I think it depends on the circumstances.

For example... my mum's biological mum (she was adopted) doesn't know who mums biological father is. Mum does get upset and was very angry, as she'd love to know something, anything. A name at least.

In our case, yes we won't have his name on the birth certificate. But its different circumstances. And we'll be honest about it... we don't know, but we can all find out once our child turns 18.

As for children born thanks to sperm donors... I think most of the issues you hear about start when parents don't tell their child they were born via a sperm donor (a straight relationship problem... not so easy in our case :P) and then tell them when they are 12 or 13... they have thoughts about who their parent is, if its not this person they've know for their whole life... why did these people lie to them etc.

We are a same sex couple. We don't have one little spermie between us. We used a sperm donor, and there is option of contact once the child turns 18. We're aren't going to hide anything (not sure how we could LOL!), and will answer any questions our kids have about sperm donors. There are great books for donor kids, and we have lots of friends in same-sex relationships using donors, both known and unknown, so they won't be the odd one out. There won't be any lies, no deceit, just truth and honesty. I think that makes a world of difference in my opinion.

[ema_tracey]

hi everyone.
i am new here... my partner and i have been together for 4 yrs and both want children really bad. lol.
i have been googling all the info i can but i stil cant find any thing about the parenting orders,
and was wondering if anyone coud send me a copy of the parenting order? to look over.

my partner and i tried our first home insemination sat the 18th, we are using a friend of ours, and now just waiting to take the test to find out if we are expecting...
finger crossed..
ema xox

[Indadhanu]

Hi ema...

Try the talking turkey website (google 'talking turkey paernting orders'). They're also called consent orders. What goes in them depends on what you want in them. I was on the family law court and you can get access so I *think* its something like LawNet or something which has some cases, and some examples of what is in a parenting order, though its mostly hetereosexual couples who have broken up and the orders are about access.

Although in NSW both mums are able to be on the birth certificate... if you're both on the certificate you're both recognised as parents, I think this eliminates the need for a parenting order.

HTH.

[ema_tracey]

hi leasha
thanks for the reply, i got alot of info off the site.
still seems very confussing but exciting at the same time tho.
ema_tracey

[sareeb]

for legal advice in vic i found Over The Rainbow very helpful

[D&M]

hey folks..

Same sex parents can both be on the certificate in ACT, in NSW you can not unless its changed since last time I looked. Why not contact a Lawfirm that specialises in Family Law, if you look up LOTL (lesbians on the loose, its a magazine)on the net and go to classifieds, you will no doubt find a solicitor that specialises in same sex families.

cheers

[Indadhanu]

D & M,

The laws have recently changed... in September I believe, that grants equal legal responsibility to both parents, as well as being able to both be on the birth certificate as parents...

Lesbian mothers legal rights
Natasha Wallace
September 23, 2008
When her 16-month-old daughter was rushed to hospital in respiratory distress, Leigh Burness-Cowan, a lesbian mum, had no authority over her treatment.

Ms Burness-Cowan, 34, a high school maths teacher, is also allowed to pick up Hunter, now three, from preschool only with the permission of the birth mother, her partner, Kendi Burness-Cowan.

The Merrylands couple are among about 1000 NSW families granted equal legal rights under new laws which came into effect yesterday and allow the names of both lesbian mothers on birth certificates. The Burness-Cowans are on a waiting list of about 100 families who have inquired about new certificates.

Their children, Hunter and 17-month-old Hugo, will now have two legally recognised mothers who can sign health and education consent forms.

The NSW Attorney-General, John Hatzistergos, said the new birth certificates were part of a broad package of reforms that gave the children of female de facto couples equal parental rights and responsibilities.

Under the Miscellaneous Acts Amendment (Same Sex Relationships) Act 2008 (NSW), passed by NSW Parliament in June, children of lesbian parents in a de facto relationship will also be able to inherit both parents' assets and will have equal rights to children of heterosexual couples with regards to workers' compensation and victim compensation payments where one or both parents are killed or injured.

The laws - which are retrospective to allow for existing children - apply only to children who are conceived through artificial fertilisation who are living in domestic situations where their parents are in a lesbian de facto relationship.

Previously, under the Status of Children Act 1996, parental presumptions for artificial fertilisation only applied to heterosexual couples.

Sperm donors still do not have parental presumptions and are not listed on birth certificates.

The changes bring NSW into line with Western Australia, the ACT and the Northern Territory as well as New Zealand and Canada.

Kendi, 33, a public relations consultant, said yesterday it was the symbolic change of her partner being legally recognised "that is really powerful".

Custody, visitation rights and child maintenance come under a mix of state and federal laws that are yet to recognise same-sex couples, although the issue is before Federal Parliament.

[D&M]

wowza.. thanks Leasha.. I guess my question now is.. is there any need for a parental order? thats fabulous huh, im excited, i cant wait to tell D..

that means although you should always have a will, it means you don't necessarily have to have one drawn up for the rights of the *other* parent god forbid anything happened.

about time I say!

Thankyou again Leasha

cheers M

[Indadhanu]

RE the parent orders... I dont think theyre necessary if you're in a state that grants equal right/responsibility... the reason for a parent order would be a) for the nonbio mum to be able to make parental decisions etc, and b) to protect the nonbio mum if there was a separation, and those rights are given now (in some states...) so no real need to get a parent order i would think...?