Any experienced netball umpires?

[~clover~]

I have a question...

I am reffing the juniors this Saturday. First time! I think I've mostly got the basics, I play B Grade as well. Learning new rules all the time TBH. Intimidation for one!

My question is about that. We had our GK pulled up for intimidation, because she was looking the shooter in the eye. Only time I've ever seen it. What's the penalty for that? Out of play?

And can you pull someone up for intimidation if they aren't in play? I am just assuming this would be intimidation or something? Last week DD1's player was very in her face. She was tall, stood right in DD's face & stared at her the whole time. It was that tough for DD she came off crying, because she felt bullied. She did say to the girl once 'umm, I can't see' & the girl was pretty nasty with her 'so?'.

It was over the top. I'm not just asking because this is my DD. I don't see anyone in A or B grades doing the same, & the coach said something about the girl being picked up for it if she kept it up.

By the second quater DD had figured her out & was running circles around her, but I would like to know the rules there?

Can anyone help?

[Emma09]

Yes- can be called 'intimidation'
Penalty pass (or shot) so yes, player is out of play.

Although, if behind the play- it could be just called out as an advantage or not even picked up at all.

Hard to say with juniors as the umpire is probably not looking for players giving death stares to 'intimidate'

[~clover~]

I know, but I wanted to know what the go is for when it is my turn to ref, JIC. If I can call on it or not. They'll play the same team again sometime in the fixture, but I don't think I've seen anyone do that before.

Bad calls are frustrating at the best of times. I'm not talking accidental misses, I'm talking being called for offside, when I was run into, while in posession! I'm a bit nervous about making huge mistakes like that

[~ Zarava Flutterby ~]

Can you talk to another ref for that level?
I'm a firm believer that even juniors should be told ALL the rules & have them explained.
If you think someone is deliberately intimidating a player then call intimidation and explain what it is.

Otherwise if you notice it chat to the coach at 1/4 time and say your GK is intimidating people (specific example if staring or pulling faces).
Ask they discuss it with her and if it continues you will call her on it & give away the free pass.

[Emma09]

It really depends on what level you are umpiring.

If you see it and it is impacting on the play, then yes- pull it up.
TBH- the player is allowed to face her opposition, and you need to be clear that she is staring at her to intimidate.
Look at it a different way- what if the player is staring at her to gage which direction she will lead to, for the next pass?

Having not been there to see it myself, makes it hard.
Do you have a copy of the rule book?
Or 'U for umpiring'?
Every umpire should have one.

[Emma09]

Every umpire makes mistakes, we're only human....

Could you get an experienced umpire to show you the positions you need to be in, to properly umpire the game?
Good positioning helps you to make good calls, iYkwim?

Always sound confident when making your calls- the umpire is always right!

[lady_neon]

Intimidation is exactly that and is at the umpires discretion. A penalty pass or shot should be given (the offending player stands out of play).

I usually call intimidation when a player deliberately stands in front of the player with the ball instead of making an attempt to defend. It's different to all 4 players in the circle cramped under the ring, its when a defender could defend but instead stands either facing or with her back to a shooter. Does that make sense? Also I've called it when a player with the ball pretends to throw the ball into the face of a defender in an attempt to get her to move away.

The problem with juniors is that the coach is usually inexperienced (a parent) and don't really know the rules at all. Many, in fact most, do teach the defenders to deliberately stand in front of a player with the ball as I explained above. Also the whole stepping in thing - if a defender has her 3 feet *with her arms up actively defending* and the attacking player chooses to step in, then the defender does not need to move. Many people have this confused, and think that if the attacking player (usually this happens in the goal circle) steps in, then the defender can quickly throw her arms in the air and defend 'but she stepped in!' - the defender MUST be actively defending 3 feet from the players grounded foot first. Hope that helps

[~clover~]

Thanks Lady_neon. I'll remember that.

I'm not going to be a full time umpire, The A & B girls are rostered to score for the other team/umpire/keep time etc when they don't have hockey or canteen roster. There was an umpire clinic a few weeks ago & I would've gone, but I did the carnival the day before & couldn't afford to go to both (1.5/2 hours in different directions).

I will talk to our umpire. Was going to at training last night, but she left early.

Yeah, she was watching DD to watch her move, & it definetely worked, but she was standing over her. She was intimidating. She was 2 inches from DD's face the whole time & I don't think I could've dealt with the same TBH. But I didn't know if it counted as they weren't in play. I think if it happened in an adult game, she'd have been pushed out of the way... I've seen the A/B girls get pretty worked up over much less.

[lady_neon]

In that situation, I'd either call advantage and speak to the player and coach during the break, or if the intimidating player's team had the ball I would call it, penalty pass and still speak to player and coach. They need to learn and there's no need for *****iness. It's starting younger and younger these days, its sad.

[lady_neon]

And I've actually seen players pull haka-like faces, bark or shriek to distract.. all intimidation on my court.

[~clover~]

Wow... That's full on! We get the odd elbow, or push... but nothing like that!

None of us actually knew about intimidation really. Most of us haven't played since primary or high school But like I said, still learning. Last week it was GK/D's hand up defending the goal is only allowed to move if the ball moves. Not if it's still. So many things to remember!

At least I know the basics here... I played a season of basketball & was so unprepared!

[lady_neon]

Yeah I umpire proper competition not just social rec centre style. People get a bit too competitive :/

[Trillian]

I usually call intimidation when a player deliberately stands in front of the player with the ball instead of making an attempt to defend. It's different to all 4 players in the circle cramped under the ring, its when a defender could defend but instead stands either facing or with her back to a shooter. Does that make sense? Also I've called it when a player with the ball pretends to throw the ball into the face of a defender in an attempt to get her to move away.

If you are a defender, then you are allowed to stand with your back to the shooter so long as they have room to bring their arms down behind you. often it's the only way you can 'defend' the rebound if the shooter is too close for you to hold your 3 feet. I made a point of asking an umpire about it once because I saw that others were doing it and didn't think it was OK. But I can see how there would be a fine line between doing that to defend the rebound and deliberately doing it as a way of intimidation. the things I've seen some women do are unbelievable.

[~clover~]

I do stand under the ring to try for the rebounds, but I watch the ball. There are times you can defend & times when you just can't & the best you can do is hope for a rebound, because everyone is just too close & being a taller player, I'm sometimes better off trying to get the rebounds...

I prefer umpires used to strict competition situations TBH. Like our finals umpires. They're very fair, & there's not much they miss!