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Thread: *sigh*

  1. #1

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    Default *sigh*

    Kind of a frustrated vent - so that I can go back to sleep! LOL

    A friend of mine was visiting yesterday, and I asked how her neighbour was going, who had a baby a few months before me. Apparently they are in the middle of a world trip! With 3 kids! :eek: Anyway... I asked if she was still breastfeeding, coz that would be WAY convenient while travelling - wouldn't have to worry about water etc. She said no, and went on to say that because he wasn't sleeping through the night, they decided to give him formula at night, and it worked, so obviously he wasn't getting enough from the breastmilk She didn't say when they started this, and I didn't ask, but obviously it led to him not being breastfed at all. Mum said she could see me holding my tongue on so many aspects of this.

    But anyway, this morning at our 5am feed, it was buzzing through my head, so I had to come and post.

    Just HOW do we try to educate/inform people?? Look at what my friend has learnt from this:
    1. That babies should be sleeping through the night
    2. That formula will fix this!

    All I could bring myself to say was that I still happily breastfeed, and Tallon still doesn't sleep through the night.

    This friend I think hopes to have kids some day, and omg - I just find myself wanting to tell people everything I've learnt here.. but how do you do it without that information shooting other people down in flames??



    Now I need to find another book to add to my future baby shower presents. LOL. I told DH a while ago, that at any baby shower I go to, I know exactly what I'm getting them - either Pinky's Sleeping like a Baby book, or the No Cry Sleep Solution book, (can't decide which yet, I have both hehhe), and a paid ABA breastfeeding class, and now I need something that tells them it's normal for a baby not to sleep through, and that YES, your baby's getting enough from breastmilk!! LOL. Especially when they're not the types to come onto the internet for information.

    Argh its very frustrating at times. And I do find myself getting frustrated that I still get up around two times a night to Tallon... and I know it's normal! but to hear of how people FIX these 'problems'. argh! From what I've read, I'm not sure there's a great deal I can do about Tallon's sleeping - if he was waking every sleep cycle, then yes, I could use some methods in those books, but he's sleeping for about 3-4 hrs, so it's not an issue of him not getting himself back to sleep during those lightsleep parts of the sleep cycle. So I don't see him having a sleep problem iykwim. And formula is just NOT an option in this house, not when we're so successfully breastfeeding. WHY would I want to give him that stuff?? I have no plans on using any toddler milk either.

    But it just churns me up inside when I see what people without kids are learning before they even have them. Their poor babies have expectations to live up to before they're even born

    Anyway, thanks for reading. Hopefully now I can climb back into bed and sleep! hehe. Altho I'm pretty awake now

  2. #2
    CaughtGypsy Guest

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    Liz,

    I know exactly what you mean. It makes it worse when shows like Today Tonight report on families that co sleep and breastfeed until the age of four. I don't have issues wiht this, but amongst the people I know who are extremely pro-control crying from as young as six weeks - it is just not very well recieved and genereates a lot of negative discussion. It certainly makes it hard to make your case.

    I have also started giving Pinky's book at baby showers. I think it is gentle enough to get the message accross. I love your idea about one ABA breastfeeding lesson. I will definately include that on my list.

    As far as educating the general public - I think it si a cultural shift that is needed. People seam to have this idea that children (babies) will fit nicely into their lives - the we can have it all plus the cake generation. It was certainly me. I think ante natal classes should cover an intro to different parenting styles. At a minimum talk about control crying and give the facts in a nonemotional way. This would have got me on the right track right from the strat instead of blundering through trying to make my child sleep according to routines and the like when he didn't fit the mould. Thank God for this forum - but how do we get this info out to non-IT literates?

  3. #3

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    Liz, just use me as an example ROFL!! I had issues with my milk coming in, in that well basically it didn't! So Alexzander was formula fed exclusively from a week old. He started sleeping through the night at 18 MONTHS old, so formula made absolutely no difference to his sleep whatsoever.

  4. #4

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    heh. Yeah - I know that people introduce solids or use formula to try and get them sleeping, and a lot of the time it doesn't work... but sheesh - someone always knows someone for whom it did work. Thats the frustrating part I think.

  5. #5

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    I think the thing is Liz - these babies would have slept through anyway - with or without the comp feed.

    The best thing for me has been my baby buddies group where heaps of the babies still dont consistently sleep through at 18m. And that is a range of formula and breastfed babies. Its just a thing - I dont know why people are in a rush to get their child to sleep and doubt their abilities of nourishing their children.

    I get the ones liek sarah that dont really have a choice, but if more MCHN's and drs laid off about the sleep factor, and tried to make us feel good about what we do, things would be easier, and mums might feed for longer.

    Like you - I often find myself biting my tongue when people say they stopped breastfeeding after a few weeks cause they weren't getting any sleep..... Its their decision, but when you have worked so hard to establish a feeding routine, its such a shame the support isn't there tohelp mums get through that 6w of sleep deprivation, and understand that some kids just dont sleep that well.

    Anyway - I do get where you are coming from. I still know that while I was lucky to have a great milk supply, it was seriously hard work that paid off me feeding Jenna til she was 15m without a drop of formula ever touchine her lips. Something that my partner and I are both very proud of.

  6. #6

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    Liz - LOL at time of your post - did you have a boobie boy wanting a feed at 5am like me??

    I completely agree with you on the lack of information about BF and parenting styles. I try to make a point whenever I hear about people discussing how their babies will/won't settle in a cot or do or don't sleep through that the controlled crying in a cot method is only one "type" of parenting and that there are other ways of doing things.

    WRT sleeping through - it is luck of the draw AND attitude - my boy is a fake baby who has always slept for long periods of time (luck) and even though he feeds now (mostly) at 8pm, sometimes midnight and between 5-6am, I consider this to be "sleeping through" (attitiude), though I know for some mums only 7pm till 7am is "good enough" for sleeping through.

    Some nights Flynn goes from 9pm till 6am without waking, so feel free to use my fake-baby as an example of BF kids who sleep through (and that was before solids). I just know my next bubba is going to be hell - LOL!!

    All that said, he was a four-hourly feeder until about 4 months, and I just knew this was normal for him. Anyways, I hear ya, Liz!!

    (Disjointed post I know - I have been up since 5am and trying to work from home)

  7. #7

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    Ah I guess every baby is different. DS is also BF and sleeps though the night most nights, the most times i have to feed thoughout the night is twice (so far, I know this might change LOL!), so another eg of just different babies!

  8. #8

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    Oh I agree each baby is different.. but people put forward this thinking that babies need to sleep through the night, and that they're 'bad' or 'difficult' babies if they don't, and sadly it leads to formula top ups, which then leads to stopping b/f all together, or they start solids early, which isn't good for baby, and they try controlled crying etc etc... all this can generally stress out the parents and baby, when really they shouldn't stress, coz it's sooooooo normal for a baby to wake through the night, even until they're 2.

    People need to be aware it's more than just 6 weeks or 3 months of disturbed sleep BEFORE they have the baby... they're possibly in for a couple of years of rarely getting a full nights sleep again.

  9. #9

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    I can't help being surprised that anyone would change to formula because their baby isn't sleeping through! It just seems so much quicker and easier to BF if you can, especially at night! Personally I'd rather get back to sleep ASAP, and BF promotes that for both mum and baby.

  10. #10

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    Liz, I too hate the "good"/"bad" babies depending on if they sleep through or not! Having said that, I was BF'd until I was 4 months and slept through (a "good" baby) from night 1. My sister was the same and didn't sleep through for years. It really is subjective.

    However, the best thing you can do for your friend is to get her on here. Pre-pregnancy (and pre-BB), I planned to BF "if I could", switch to formula/solids as soon as teething started, didn't want to co-sleep (although would have the baby in the bedroom) and didn't really have any thoughts as to weaning age (just not BFing with teeth). Now I am going to BF until self-weaning, no formula ever, no solids until six months or later, and I'm gutted that I won't have the baby in bed with me, but in a cradle at the side (but I really don't trust myself to wake up if I roll onto the baby - I can roll onto pins and scissors and not wake up). Research for yourself and changing "normals" change your mind quicker than a friend's opinion!

  11. #11

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    I too get annoyed with the "good/bad" baby outlook that some people seem to have. A couple of the first questions I get asked by complete strangers about Logan is "Is he a good baby, does he sleep through the night?" and "You're STILL breastfeeding?" Well.. for what seemed like a long time he wasn't sleeping through the night, and I have always thought he was a good baby. Plus we are both happy with breastfeeding so that is the main thing, right?

    I began to think I should be giving him formula because that is what most people seemed to be telling me. Thankfully my CHN said she was basically going to support me to breastfeed for as long as I wanted and that she wasn't the one to talk to about formula feeding, I think she knew how much I wanted to breastfeed, but I was also going crazy with only a couple of hours sleep a night. I ended up going to a family care clinic and I tried various things that upset me & Logan. Some things didn't upset us and seemed to have helped eventually, like baby massage and him having more of a routine that suits him. And now he sleeps through as of a couple of months ago.

    My mother constantly does the breastfeeding speech to me.. as in, "it's free, it's convenient, it is made just for him, and he may not sleep through even with formula so can you imagine heating up bottles and getting everything ready when you could have fed him and and be closer to putting him back to bed in that time?"

    But like has been said I guess every baby is different. Also people change their minds to things they've said they would/wouldn't do after they have their baby. I guess all you can do is try to gently educate your friend and hope she makes the decisions that she feels are right for her baby and for her.

    Sorry for rambling, I hope some of that makes sense. I probably went off on a tangent there lol.. I can't sleep, but at least Logan is getting a good nights sleep.

  12. #12

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    Oh Ryn - sounds like you have a great attitude to all this, which is wonderful. Just be prepared for things not to go completely to plan. Even then best breastfeeding mums still have to give their babies formula for whatever reason, and it doesn't make them any less a mum. Things just dont always work out the way you want them too.
    Although in saying that - the greatest thing you can have is a can-do attitude and positive thoughts about being able to cope with it all.
    I have to say I was pro-breastfeeding, but I never realised all the really good things about it, and how long I should feed for until I got along the journey. I feel embarrassed now about how many mums I said "when are you weaning?" too. But I didn't know any better! I didn't know that you can successfully and privately feed children until the are 2y and older.

    Now I just try and support people and let themknow that they can do it. Its tough, but you aren't a failure if you dont breastfeed. Its a shame, but so are lots of things in life.

    As for the sleeping thing Ryn - you may find that once bubs is born hormones play a big part in you being able to co-sleep pretty successfully. Something clicks that means you will never really fall into a natural heavy sleep again!! I swear your hearing and senses become on par with superman when you first become a mum!!

  13. #13

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    On the good/bad dichotomy (wow - haven't used that word since my arts degree!!) I completely agree with what has been said, which is why I use "good" when describing my boy. My mother always says there is no such thing as a good or bad baby - those are just labels that adults put on them.....

  14. #14

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    I had to bite my tongue a lot in the past week staying at my MIL when it comes to breastfeeding. She truely believes many women can't breastfeed and that there milk just mysteriously dries up over night, as that is what she claims happens to her. I would love to educate her, so she doesn't continue these myths, but doing so would just insult her, so I let her go. At least she has now stopped with the "you only need to bf for 6 weeks" chant that she had when Maggie was born.

    Liz- I would probably give them Pinky's book, lets support our local authors.

  15. #15

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    Let's just be happy the we know that breastfeeding is one of the best gifts we could ever give our children. Next we just take one at a time and slowly but surely we can make a diffence by showing the benefits to other would be and soon to be mums. Just in conversation rather than a lecture say how much it can be hard but soooooo worthwhile in so many ways to breastfeed - yet sometimes difficult along the way (but hey, that's parenthood). We won't change the quick fix mentality of some, but others will be more receptive. At least we have set up a lucky group in the next generation that will have, and know the benefits.

  16. #16

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    I always use myself as an example, with Matilda I started comp feeding her (due to major reflux issues) one feed at night & it made no difference whatsoever, either did thickening my EBM I would get from that comp feed. Either did solids, in fact she's now 2 1/2 and still doesn't sleep through the night & my newborn who is exclusively bf is.

  17. #17

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    Elyse started formula at four months (I really did dry up - I had pneumonia, and there just wasn't any more! I tried and tried to keep it up - pumped, drank water, drank milk, drank beer :eek:, I had nothing left for her. BTW, now I think I would look more into herbal/natural supplements, but I didn't know about those at the time.) Anyways, she didn't sleep through the night until well after she was one. Marieke is in the same boat. She still wakes up for a bottle (she nursed until 8 months, and then weaned herself.) at 3-5 am. She is now 13 months old. Solids obviously didn't make a difference either.
    I agree - there needs to be more support for mothers who have to wake up at night. It is exhausting, and it seems to last forever! My girls woke me up 7 times between 11pm and 5 am last night, and it is brutal! Thankfully, they are also tired today, and both have gone for a nap, which is why I am rambling on here....
    Back to the point - some babies will sleep through, some will not, and there's not a whole lot you can do about it! So keep nursing, if you can, 'cause it's best for them! Let the new mums know!

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