Can't get her to understand "No" or "stop"

[Astrid]

I would have thought by now that Maggie would at least have some occasional comprehension of "no", but she does not. She seems to think it means do it more, or do it harder etc. It is driving me nuts, I just cannot get her to stop doing something that she should not be in. Sometimes distraction works, most of the time it does not.

For example she is obsessed with touching the TV (DH's precious TV ), no matter what we do she wont stop, she has already damaged it quite badly and has to stop before it ends in divorce proceedings as I am meant to be watching her 100% of the time and therefor all damage is my fault. She will start to touch it and we will tell her no, she just smiles at us and goes on to do it more. We try to physically remove her or take the object off her that she is attacking the tv with with. It just makes her worse, she becomes so determined to do it, it just ends up in tears. Yelling at her does the same thing and she gets upset at us for yelling.

We have tried explaining to her that is did things when first asked that it would not end up in yelling. We can ask her to stop or say no 20+ times and she just ignores us. What are we doing wrong, it just has to stop. I am upset and tired that she only does what she is told when we yell and even then it is only for a short while before she goes straight back to doing it.

I hate the yelling, the tears and the tantrums. I knew there would be some, but this is getting ridiculous.

[Lulu]

Mate, she understands no and don't. Mitch takes those words as go, yes, do it even worse too, so I understand the frustration. He likes the fireworks when he does something he knows is naughty, so I totally ignore what he has done, tidy up and go and sob when he isn't looking...
I have to keep Mitch very busy and outside as much as I can. He is getting better though.

I just moved the telly to higher ground - and 3yr old proof everything - which is totally different to baby-proofing!

I''m not much help am I......

[Phteven]

I've found that the most effective method has been a consequence with a countdown.
eg Yasin you have 5 seconds to stop smearing yogurt on the TV or I will put one of your trains away and you can't have it back until next week. 5, 4 3, 2, 1 ok Yasin. I asked to to stop smearing the yogurt so now I'm taking this train away. Screaming and shouting and tears from Yasin. I'm sorry you're upset Yasin but I have to take the train away because you didn't do what I asked you to. Yogurt is meant for eating not painting.

I try and make it fit the circumstances so if he's bashing the cat or Imran with a toy I remove the toy that he's using to bash the cat/his brother.

I've always followed through on it and these days both the boys know that once I start the countdown that they're better off doing as they have been asked.

[Trish]

Oh Chloe, can you come here and toddler tame for me ??

Astrid, I have no miracle solutions hun. Just know that your not alone. Tehya is still like this too and she will be 3 in March. It's like if I say no, waving a red flag in her face. That inner devil sits there egging her on and just about always wins.

They will all grow out of it..... eventually.

[Phteven]

LOL Trish, if you saw how feral my toddlers are you'd run a mile the other way...

[paradise lost]

Lol, i think i am less gentle than i thought i was! I embrace the tears. Life is not fair, sometimes you can't hit mummy/smear baby cream on the mirrors/post dvd's out of the 1st floor window/tear the pages from books/pour milk onto the floor for the 8th time and then ask for more.

I usually warn with an "A-a-a-a-a-a. No, don't do that." and if she continues i give her direct instructions "Put it down, come away from the television" etc. and if she refuses still i raise my voice. Some things, the dangerous ones, i yell immediately to stop her instantly.

Maggie wants to know what will happen if she ignores you. Decide what will happen and follow that through. I tried distraction for a while but i found it made her worse as she did "naughty" things to get attention then. I try to only use distraction now if i see it coming BEFORE she does it, if she's already doing it i tell her to stop, raise my voice and then physically pick her up (which she hates just now) and remove her from the situation. SHe then invariably has a massive tantrum which i monitor for a few moments while simultaneously not talking to her or getting involved and once she's gotten the initial rage out i sit down by her and say "DD, you can't rip the books up. Books are for reading. Let's read a book instead" and we have a little cuddle up while she recovers.

I think it must be very hard to be a toddler just discovering that the world DOESN'T do exactly what we want, but i'd rather be harsh about it now while she's small than have the earth suddenly roll of it's pedestal when she's 8 and crush her, if that makes sense.

Bx

[~kaos~]

Hopefully I can post this without rambling.

I have found that when I say "don't" or "no", it is not often effective. My 3 year old is only just starting to control himself with it.

I have recently discovered the reason. When we say "don't touch the tv", our unconcious mind visualises "touch the tv" and then our conscious mind has to negate it because how do you visualise not doing something. I think that kids act more from the unconscious (they don't think about things too much, they just 'do' things).

So, what has been working for me is instead of saying 'don't' or 'no', is to say what they can do. If you want them to stop something, say "stop", then an alternative. Example - instead of "don't hit the tv with the truck" you could say "Stop. Trucks are for driving on the floor. Let's put this block in the truck and drive it over here". Instead of "don't jump on the couch", "couches are for sitting on". I have found that more direct communication that the kids understand better is much more effective. Sure I have found it really (really) hard to not say don't and no, but I get much better results when i don't use them.

Does that make any sense? I guess the root of it all is in the way kids hear and interpret our messages and that negation (don't and no) can be difficult to process.

[ll80]

I'm a bit meaner when DD was about that age I had the same troubles as you.
I would pick up one of her favourite less expensive toys, after a few warnings I would tell her if she didn't stop what she was doing then the toy would get thrown in the bin.
Once you threaten you have to follow through, only ever had to do it once, and she stopped straight away, I could also use it for future "bad" behaviour too, it's definitely something they remember as it's what important to them, they couldn't give a stuff about your t.v lol\
I remember one day she was being an absolute demon at the shops, so I ended up trowing one of her toys in the bin, she's been a perfect angel (well pretty much) at the shops ever since.
They do get better as they get older though, at the moment my biggest hassle is keeping her out of the fridge and pantry, I am sure she has a bottomless pit.

HTH
...Laura

[MantaRay]

I agree with Kaos. We too have had some success with rephrasing things in the postive rather than the negative. However even that is it's limitations (and can be hard to do). I think "stop" is one thing that they must obey - it can be a life-saver. The only time DS1 ever ran away from me while out was at a shopping centre car park. I had DS2 in my arms and was reaching for DS1's hand when he bolted. He had never done it before and hasn't done it since. I screamed "stop" and he did. Thank goodness that was something I had been teaching him from the very beginning and when I really needed it, it worked. I think repetition is a good way for them to learn, so get them to practise stopping lots of times, and even make a game out of it if need be (but make sure they know that it's serious too). And I am also a fan of explaining, even if they seem to young to understand. I have always told the boys "when I say stop, it is very important that you do stop straight away, as you can get hurt otherwise" or something along those lines.

[DoubleK]

i agree with Kaos also, i will be keeping this in mind!!

also, what manta ray said is right about 'stop'. i have yelled stop to Krystal on a few occasions when i really meant it! and it has worked, thank god!

[Astrid]

Thanks so much for the advice ladies, I was beginning to feel like such an ogre. Will definitely try to change how I am wording things and see if that helps. Need to find some more immediate things we can do or take away from her if she continues. We tended to use threats like "you can't go to the park/beach tomorrow" which just seemed to make things worse as not only did she continue the unwanted activity but also cried and demanded to go to the beach or park now. I have certainly fantasised about throwing out toys and always thought I was so bad for thinking it, maybe it is not so bad after all.

She is so much like her daddy though, rational talk or commands do not work with him when you want him to stop something, even he needs yelling at as he just refuses to listen.

[Jennifer13]

For example she is obsessed with touching the TV (DH's precious TV ), no matter what we do she wont stop, she has already damaged it quite badly and has to stop before it ends in divorce proceedings as I am meant to be watching her 100% of the time and therefor all damage is my fault. She will start to touch it and we will tell her no, she just smiles at us and goes on to do it more. We try to physically remove her or take the object off her that she is attacking the tv with with. It just makes her worse, she becomes so determined to do it, it just ends up in tears. Yelling at her does the same thing and she gets upset at us for yelling.

My goodness, are you sure you're not living in my house??!!

My DP is exactly the same. And my DD used to do the same thing.
When you say 'we', does it make any difference if it's your DH who tells her off? Yelling does nothing in our household and I don't use it either.

I agree with the other girls on a lot of their points.

I tried an alternative technique to using the TV (since she was usually wanting to play with the buttons, etc, or wanted to make the Wiggles appear herself). From the 'gentle' POV I would ask her what she wanted or try to guess (she was usually frustrated that whatever it was wasn't happening) and if it was okay either try to give it to her or tell her, 'sorry, honey, we're not watching TV now [for whatever reason, with Lucy it can be as simple as 'the Wiggles have gone to bed now'], but why don't we go and do x, y and z?' Plenty of enthusiasm for the new task usually distracts a little. If that doesn't work I then physically remove her from the room and close the door. Commence tantrum, tantrum ignored, whimpering then gets some consolation and distraction.

Another thing that has helped her treat the TV better is that we have a small second TV in our bedroom with a video player hooked up to it (very old-fashioned, but harder to break!) and I borrow out videos from our local library. Lucy has learnt how to load them herself, push play and turn on the TV. Since it's all hands-on for her she loves using it and then sits herself down to watch the short video (I love the story ones). It keeps her occupied while I have a shower and has taught her how to use something that requires more care. Treating toys and other possessions nicely has been something I've put a lot of effort into lately (throw it, it goes away, put it on the floor, you must pick it up, stand on it, it goes away, etc, etc). So now a warning is all it takes.

[Astrid]

Not sure why she touches the TV and drags sharp objects over it. It seems to happen when she is watching her favourite shows/dvds. If she wants to watch something, she will either grab the remote, or start pulling out dvd's and trys to put one in, the new dvd is harder for her to work than the old one. Part of it could be that we had an older tv and probably weren't so fussed when she touched it, now we have a flat screen and it needs to be treated differently. When the move is finalised we will have both tv's set up, so she will be back to watching the old one, which will hopefully minimise the damage.

DH is quicker to yell than me, but I must admit though my temper is a bit short lately with everything that has been going on.

[Pandora]

I wish any of this would work for DS.
He laughs hysterically and says "no no no no no..ha ha..norty corner..ha ha mummy" etc.
He thinks timeout is hysterical, and after half an hour I give up becuase the reason for the timeout has been lost on him.
He wont be distracted unless we get in the car and go somehwere else. The only place I can put him where he cant run back to whatever else he was doing is his cot - but I dont want him to associate being naughty or punished with bedtime/sleep.
I cant really say anything to DH when its been a challenging day with him or I get "Well he doesnt do that for me...what's wrong with you?" or "you sound like you dont want to spend time with him, I dont see why he'd act any differently for you etc"
I have no support form DH, who wants to smack DS which I'm totally against.
I have no support from my parents who think I'm causing the problems by not smacking him "its the only way" "he needs to be smacked" etc. Mum has now said she will not look after him if I cont let her physically discipline him. again, .

Grrr. Sorry Astrid
I'm uselsess arent I. I sympathise with you though.

[Rouge]

We have the thinking chair. And its a consequence to not listening. I know my son understands what he's not to do, its just he chooses not to hear it So I make sure I have eye contact, tell him if he continues he'll have to sit on the chair and offer him something else to do. It nearly always works. Yes sometimes its frustrating getting up and down and going through the whole rigmarole each time but he knows his boundaries, and without being "ungentle" persistence, consistency, verbal rewards for doing the right thing and consequences are all part of the "program" in this house

[Jennifer13]

I have no support from my parents who think I'm causing the problems by not smacking him "its the only way" "he needs to be smacked" etc. Mum has now said she will not look after him if I cont let her physically discipline him. again, .

Oh this is not good, rayray. I would be pulling out the big guns on this one. Smacking someone else's child is totally unacceptable, whether you agree or disagree with their parenting.

Maybe someone else on here knows of some info you could provide them on how damaging and/or ineffective it is to smack a child and where the law stands on someone else hitting your child?

[beckles]

Hi astrid sorry you are having a challenging time at the mo. my suggestion is that as soon as she goes near the tv (looking like she is going to touch it) i would say firmly No, no touching tv please. if she moves to touch tell her she will have to leave the room if she touches it. if she touches the tv remove her from the room and tell her why, let her know she may return to the room if she doesn't touch the tv, make sure you relax your shoulders and breathe normally so she can see you are not angry just dealing with the situation. i kinda work on natural consequences so only deal with what is happening, so i wouldn't remove from her a toy which has nothing to do with the tv IYKWIM. (no offence to others that do). it will be hard work but if you can be consistant for a few days with it she will stop touching the tv, it's bloody hard babe especially with your new one in your belly good luck and relaxing, patient vibes to you
beckles