This Is Getting All Too Much

[Deejoy17]

A few months back I posted this thread Bad sleeping is just getting worse - BellyBelly Forums ~ Pregnancy, Birth & Baby regarding Adrian`s bad sleeping, it`s about time I update:

Adrian is now 14.5 months of age and his sleeping is no better, about 6 weeks ago I thought he was getting better and a good night was with him waking 3/4 times a night, occasionally he even only woke twice a night - bliss!!!!

Now in the last two weeks, he has been waking every 2 hours and at times in the night he can be awake every 10 minutes.

Each time he wakes I get him up and give him a booby feed, where he will eventually nod off, okay he does usually go back to sleep within 10 minutes of waking (sometime he can be awake for up to 2 hours before going back to sleep but most nights it`s only about 10 minutes).

I`m getting quite exhausted as I have less then 2 hours sleep before I`m awake again, I can`t catch up during the day as I have two very active toddlers who don`t sit still for 5 minutes, hence will not watch TV, they just want to go and go and go.

Adrian never seems to be tired, it doesn`t matter how bad a night we have he`s just never tired.

Anyone have any advice at all? I just don`t know what to do anymore.

[Tanya]

Are there any foods that maybe setting him off? Additives? Preservatives? I think this sounds very serious!! I would go to the Dr or your MCHN and if you don't get satisfactory answers seek a 2nd opinion!!

Dee, I can only imagine how tired you are, heaps of hugs! And I hope you get to the bottom of this very soon!

Tanya

[Ellibam]

i think you should try and get a copy of the book "no-cry sleep solutions for toddlers and preschoolers!
there is a section that directly deals with night time nursing
(im currently reading it to try and keep makon out of our bed and to stop waking so early)

what happens if you dont offer the boob? is that when he is likely to stay up for hours?
what if you have a cup of water by the bed so when he wakes you give him some of the water then put him back down?
sorry if these are no help

[MantaRay]

Big hugs from me too Dee. You must be so exhausted.

I am a big believer in demand feeding. However, Jack went through a stage of waking often when he was around a year old and it sounds very similar to your DS. I stopped feeding him everytime he woke. I didn't try to nightwean him totally, but would only offer the bb once, or at most twice, a night. The rest of the time he could have water if he seemed thirsty (but he never drank it as it wasn't actually thirsty), or DH or I would just resettle him. It took a couple of months, but eventually he stopped waking totally. From then on he has slept through the night nearly every night.

I am not sure if this would suit you, but maybe cutting back on the night feeds might be something to try. Also, I might add that the first night that Jack slept through, DH and I went away overnight and the ILs were staying in our house looking after him. I think he didn't wake because he knew I wasn't there to feed him anyway. So that could be something else to try if you are comfortable with it, going away for a night to see what happens.

I wish you every bit of GL you can get - I know how hard it is and I really hope it settles soon for you.

[Deejoy17]

Tanya- I hadn`t thought about preservatives or additives affecting him, I wouldn`t really know what to look out for, he doesn`t suffer from eczema or allergies like Matthew (although I haven`t let him eat egg as yet).

the MCHN is aware of the situation, she has mentioned sleep school but I have to go to Sydney and that isn`t feasible when I have Matthew to look after as well.

Ellibugs - DH and I were discussing what books were available, I`ll go and order one online now.

If I don`t offer Adrian boobie juice the whole place knows about it, I have to try and keep him as settled as possible as DH gets up at 1.30am to milk the cows and Matthew is also in the room and if he has an unsettled night we all know about it the next day!!!!

The times when he stays up for hours on end, I`m not sure what it`s all about as he will spend the time crying and being very unsettled and not knowing if he wants boobie juice or not.

I`m like Melanie I believe in demand feeding so haven`t tried water but perhaps I should.

Melanie - We`re on the same wave length as in demand feeding our bubs so your advice has been wonderful. I think I might give the water a go at night and feed him say twice a night, it will sort of go against the grain as to how I feed them but then on the other hand a baby of this age shouldn`t need feeding every 2 hours.

Oh going away for the night sounds bliss, I`ve never been away from them though so I`d probably lay awake worrying about them all night.

I`ve just got off the phone to my Mum her answer is to wean, that doesn`t sit right with me at all but then she has been telling me to wean for quite a number of months now. As far as I`m concerned he`s doing extremely well on Mummy`s milk at 14kg he`s not missing out, guess I have to give my Mum the excuse that she has never breastfed and neither have my sisters so this is all foreign to her especially with feeding an older bub!!!

[Bathsheba]

I agree, I don't think weaning is the answer either. What do you do when you feed him overnight? Do you take him back to your bed and do it lying down? (this is what I do) or do you do it in his room in a chair? Do you have any lights on? (we don't turn any lights on in the night except for the small lamp that is constantly on in the lounge: enough dim light filters through to all the rooms through the foyer). Do you talk to him? (we don't).

My son is just a few months older than yours and I usually give him a single feed overnight but recently he has started to sleep through a couple of nights each week. I find that the nights he sleeps best is when his tummy is not too full with solids. I make sure his biggest meal is late afternoon. This eliminates stomach discomfort (you know yourself that it's hard to sleep on a full tummy). Another thing that has helped my boys sleep (i think) is that the nursery is directly across the foyer to our room and they can virtually see our bed from the cot. Could proximity be an issue? I used to co-sleep more when he was younger but these days I am able to carry him back to his cot after he has fallen asleep after the feed (usually about 3am). I settle him on his tummy too these days. He generally sleeps through from then until about 8am. We put him in his cot at night at about 9pm after BFing him to sleep/rocking in arms if it's DH settling him which also works really well. We are happy with our youngest's sleeping patterns ATM however our 4yo has been waking up a lot recently which is unusual. Anyhow... I hope you have some success soon Dee

[krysalyss]

Hi Dee,
I am not in your place at all but do know how you feel (DS has been sick the last ten days)
Here are a couple of things to think about:
1. Have you started a bedtime routine (a wind down routine before bed so he goes from play time mode to sleep time mode)?
A bedtime routine can help your bub to learn that the long sleep is coming and get him into a frame where he is able to sleep.
2. Has he got any sleep association items other than you? eg. a dummy, 'blanky', music, nightlight or teddy?
Having items that he associates with sleep can help him learn to resettle without needing you to rock or feed (keep in mind a dummy is really good for sucky babies but can create their own problems). Introduce them with your normal sleep/settling routine. Eg. if you introduce a blanky, get him to hold it when you rock/feed him to sleep. Then after a little while place more emphasis on them over feeding/rocking, then fade out the feeding/rocking totally.
3. How are his day sleeps? Does he do any? Are they in the same place as his night sleeps or somewhere different?
If he sleeps well during the day but not at night then what is different? Is he scared of the dark when he wakes up etc? It can be important that they sleep in the same place day and night for consistency. If he doesn't sleep well at either time, is he happy to play in his cot at all? Having a little bit of fun time in the cot outside of sleep time may help him feel comfortable in his cot.
4. Weaning is different to stopping comfort sucking. I agree totally that you shouldn't wean but think you should consider reducing the amount of 'sucking to sleep' times as this could be what he currently needs to get to sleep. As Melanie suggested, you could feed one to two times per night as a feed and then the other times use other methods to get him to sleep. One thing we do is as soon as he wakes overnight we pop some music on, it helps get him back to sleep (and helps us relax while we comfort him so any stress doesn't overwhelm us).
5. Have you tried using one of the baby sleep cd's? Because he is waking up so often, it may help him to maintain a deeper sleep. Supposedly they mimic the sounds in the womb and quite a few of the women on here mention how good they are.
6. We had a problem with DS needing to be rocked to sleep. We started encouraging DS to self-settle by rocking him until he was calm and sleepy but not actually asleep. That way he fell asleep in his cot. The theory is that if they wake in the same spot that they fall asleep.they are likely to be less distressed on waking and more likely to self settle. This also fit our no cry philosophies because if he did get upset or cried, we could just pick him up again. This really helped and now he doesn't usually need rocking at all and apart from the recent sickness only tends to wake up for food.
7. Does your DS sleep in the same room or separate? Once you put him down in his cot, stay in the room and quietly fuss about a little bit. That way he knows you are still around and if he does tend to wake up quickly again, he will see you are there and trust more that you are still around when he wakes up again.
8. I think the most important thing is consistency. We mapped out a bit of a plan complete with trouble-shooting (how we were going to react when he cried, when he woke in the night etc) and then stuck to it. The worst thing you can do is chop and change because that just gets confusing. Stick to the plan for at least a month.

I hope all of this helps. I really do know where you are coming from. Good luck with it all!

xx

[{sarah}]

Dee hun all I can offer is my sympathies. Zander has been a dreadful sleeper since, well forever! Only in the last 2-3 weeks has he started sleeping through the night. I have no idea what happened, it just clicked one day. Prior to that we had about 4 months when he was 18 months old that he slept through with only one wake up per night.

[Bathsheba]

7. Does your DS sleep in the same room or separate? Once you put him down in his cot, stay in the room and quietly fuss about a little bit. That way he knows you are still around and if he does tend to wake up quickly again, he will see you are there and trust more that you are still around when he wakes up again.

This is good advice. I occasionally stay in the nursery with dimmed lights and quietly fold nappies (cloth) or put away clothes (our wardrobes are close by) and sometimes my boys just drifted off through boredom watching me LOL

[narelle]

Dee...i don't know how you do it...i hope you get some sleep soon

Just a few thoughts

is his bedroom too warm or too cold?

A dummy?

does he have a stereo with soothing music playing?

fav blanket/toy?

needs a pillow?

tried lavender on the sheets?

warm bath before bed?

maybe give him some solids before bed?

i hope he sleeps soon...i would really try to stop feeding him at night it must be so demanding on you and if he's 14kg i think its just habit now to feed at night not hunger.

take care of yourself

[Astrid]

As a mum to a bad sleeper I would really recommend looking into allergies/in tolerances to certain foods and additives. Google Failsafe and go to the Fed up with Food additives site, it has a lot of info on it. I have to be careful with my DD, I have just had a couple of weeks of hell after a period of bliss and it looks to be related to preservative 282. In my experience all the sleep cues, routines in the world have little effect if there is something in their system keeping them awake, once out of their system though a good sleep ritual works wonders.

[krysalyss]

Bath - this is actually the only time I do folding! lol. I avoid it like the plague otherwise.

[Deejoy17]

1. Have you started a bedtime routine (a wind down routine before bed so he goes from play time mode to sleep time mode)?

Yes the boys have the same wind down routine, we have dinner about 6pm, then the boys have quiet play while I`m doing the dishes, then it`s bath time, get ready for bed then a booby feed and Adrian is normally out like a light.

2. Has he got any sleep association items other than you? eg. a dummy, 'blanky', music, nightlight or teddy?

The funny thing is both my boys have never attached themselves to anything. Adrian has toys and blankets but nothing which he`s attached himself too, I have never used a dummy but I`m beginning to think perhaps Adrian needed one.

3. How are his day sleeps? Does he do any? Are they in the same place as his night sleeps or somewhere different?

Adrian has been down to one day sleep since he was about 7 months old, he`ll sleep for about an hour, if his brother is asleep Adrian will sleep in a different room but if Matthew is up or Adrian has an earlier sleep then he`s in the same room as his night sleep, if we`re out and about he`ll sleep well in the car LOL

Have you tried using one of the baby sleep cd's?

You know I`d forgotten all about my baby sleep CD`s, I must get them out and try them.

7. Does your DS sleep in the same room or separate?

He`s in the same room, just 30cms away from my side of the bed.

Bath - My routine when feeding Adrian at night is exactly the way I have always fed my babies since we got back home from hospital, that is no lights on, I don`t talk to him, no eye contact, I take him back to bed and feed him lying down.

Sarah - I keep thinking of you as I remember the dreadful nights you had with Zander. Great to hear that Zander has been sleeping through for you, I hope it continues.

Narelle - Thanks for your suggestions, I haven`t tried lavender or the music, he doesn`t have a dummy or any other attachments ( I think I`m it LOL), the room is around the 20/21 degree mark.

astrid - I`ve had a look at the site you mentioned, very interesting but how do you find out if is a preservative, do you have to cut out the foods from both his diet and my own or can the Dr`s do a ***** test?

Well since writing this thread, Adrian slept till 5am for 2 nights in a row, looking back I realised he didn`t have any bread thinking perhaps I have hit it on the head but it wasn`t the case as he has been waking up throughout the night even when not having bread, it must have been just a fluke.

Oh that`s right I tried the water trick, OMG I`m sure you girls must have heard him, he screamed and screamed and screamed, I had to give him booby!!