Reply With QuoteHi doudou, I think it is great that you wnat to teach DS about consequences. Befor I suggest anyways that you can do this, how old is your son?
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how do i or can i teach consequences
as the title says how do i teach DS about concequences??
or can you not and its more about showing them?
DS broke something of value today that we have told him before not to go near(this is usually enough) so i have taken his newly aquired service station...
i spoke that i was taking it because it was special to him and he broke something special of ours.....
but i dont feel this is the right way to go about it. but im not sure how else o do it??
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Hi doudou, I think it is great that you wnat to teach DS about consequences. Befor I suggest anyways that you can do this, how old is your son?
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he is 3
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I need help with my 3yo too! I will be watching this one closely!
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i would suggest time out?? simply a chair in the hallway (away from everyone) where he has to sit for 3 minutes (3 years old...) and if he gets up then it starts again. tho mayb that for next time as i think that would be abit late now.
When my neice was this sage (now 7) she done some things simular to this. I used to sit her down and i would get quite upset saying how much i loved the object (so i would make her feel real guilty) etc and she would give me a hug and say sorry. She never did it again.. i still do it with her now.
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hollye thanks but not what im after, that is a punishment
i want to teach h im the concept of concequences
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sorry. thought they were the same thing. Taking a toy of him is punishment i thought.. oh well. Hopefully someone can jump in here and offer some good advice for u.
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but i dont feel this is the right way to go about it. but im not sure how else o do it??
Sorry to say but i also see taking a toy away from a child of any age is a form of punishment ... not saying it's negative to do as chances are i could consider doing the same action but as i haven't yet been in the same position to do so i honestly don't What I Would Do when it finally comes to it ... It's so hard to know what to do isn't itI have a 2.5year old so i too would be very interested in more suggestions/ideas ... I also will be watching this thread
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My DD is very perceptive and tuned in to people's feelings - so when she was that age I found that what worked with her was telling her how it made me feel when she broke something of mine..."Mummy has had that for a long time and now it's broken! That makes me really sad!" - because she really responds to how others feel that worked well without "guilting" her ( which it sounds like you're trying to avoid?)
DS is a whole new kettle of fish though. While he does have a sensitive side to his nature its not as easy to appeal to as DD..because he's a boy he's loud and likes to wreck stuff and really doesn't think before or after he does it.
My point being that you need to work out what motivates your little one and work with that
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First of all don't be to hard on yourself, you dealt with the situation at the time and that is really important.
There are logical consequences and non logical consequences.
The logical ones are much easier eg"If you keep throwing your toy around the room we will have to pack it away because it might break." They relate directly to the event.
The circumstance you decribed you may have needed to provide the non logical consequence when you warned him not to touch it on previous occasions, eg"that is very special to mummy and if you break it I will be very sad and pack your garage away." They provide a consequence not related to the event and usually work better with pre-warning. "if you run inside one more time you will have to sit down on a chair by yourself and have a think about it. While it sounds like a punishment if you give pre-warniong it becomes a consequence. In saying that DS is probably testing you to see what you will do, was he upset you took the garage? This situation could have also had a logical consequence eg "you knew you weren't allowed to touch that and now that it's broken you can't go and play until you have helped clean it up and you need to say sorry to me." You could also ask "how do you think that makes mummy feel?" to promote empathy.
And the golden rule - ALWAYS follow through with what you say you will do. Hope this makes sense.
With DD i keep precious things out of reach as much as possible and if she breaks something that upsets me i cry (not for her benefit, i do tend to cry when i'm sad) and i make sure DD can SEE me crying. I tell her exactly why i'm so upset (it's only happened once actually, i had a pair of beautifully decorated blown eggs made for me by friends who now have too many kids and too little time to make such things, hours and hours of work in each one, and she took them from my wardrobe and smashed them into a million pieces, i cried for about 40minutes with their broken pieces in my hands!) and how terribly sad it makes me and i let her comfort me if she wants to. I talk about it frequently for the next few days - though i am loving to her if DP says "how are you" i will say "i'm so sad because my eggs are broken". I don't grudge-bear in the sense of being colder towards her, but i don't hide my sadness. I might genuinely not feel much like playing, or not smile as much, and DD will notice. Whenever i am sad and she comments i tell her why and let her hug me and tell her that it helps to know she cares and is sorry.
If i had a less perceptive child i don't know what i'd do - make more fuss i suppose! Luckily i only have the kid i have!
Bx
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It wasnt precious but it was a 6ft tall 3 screen photoframe with 15 or so glass frames in it... it cant be hidden it had to be where it was. he understood not to touch it the first time it got broken... the second time its irrepairable.....
yes he was very sad to lose his station. i was very sad he broke it i cried and he cried to.. but he still doesnt get that by doing something he knows he shouldnt(he is very cluey about these things) that there are consequenses...
he didnt do it intentionally but there still should be a consequence
definatly not the caseIn saying that DS is probably testing you to see what you will do
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nor will he for some time. He is just not developmentally ready to appreciate these 'lessons'. Natural consequences are far more effective - those related to the event that you haven't manufactured.but he still doesnt get that by doing something he knows he shouldnt(he is very cluey about these things) that there are consequenses...
Yes, it's upsetting when things you have become attached to break or are damaged by our children. They just do not get this, it cannot be taught, it is only learned by reaching that developmental stage (not age - it will be different for different kids).
Seeing you cry would have been consequence enough for your little one, without adding the punishment.
Love withdrawal and toy withdrawal only teach kids to think about the consequences to themselves, not the reason to heed what you've said. They learn to act on the basis of avoidance, rather than any other motivation. It's an extrinsic motivator, not an intrinsic reward to act how you want them to because it will impact artificially and negatively.
Think about what happened when you took the station away. The sadness would have been about that withdrawal, and focus was no longer on the frame. He couldn't care less about the frame. Yes, next time he might avoid the frame, not because he knows it's precious, but because he'll remember the previous withdrawal, and want to avoid further punishment. Or, he might forget all together and you'll have to withdraw something else.
Anything of value that DS damages or destroys (and he has) I just have to write off, financially and emotionally! I use it as a good opportunity to 'let go' of my attachment to material things and to realise that my DS's emotional wellbeing is far more important than my emotional attachment to the thing he's damaged. It took some real thinking about to begin with, and now it is easier to fall into this thinking. He really teaches me about priorities in lifeI usually learn more from him than he does from me!
Google Alfie Kohn, he talks about the merits of 'consequential' teaching, artificial and natural.
It's really easy to fall for the 'consequences' way of thinking, it's all you ever hear about from parenting 'experts' and it's rarely questioned in the public domain. Consequences need to be logical, as a PP said - don't they need to be for you, too, as an adult? Ask what you want to teach with the consequence and take it right through to the ultimate aim.he didnt do it intentionally but there still should be a consequence
It's a bit unfair to expect our littlies to learn 'lessons' the first time round - it really sets them up for failure. After all, we dont' get 'punished' when we make a mistake a second time in the illogical way we dole out 'consequences' to our kids. In adulthood, the mistake has enough consequences for us to realise what we've done - it's put someone out, it's crashed a car, it's left you with no money till payday, it's killed a plant etc. These are natural consquences and we learn bit by bit, otherwise we'd be perfect. I know I'm not!
Do yourself and your DS a favour and remove valuable things that can't be replaced from his reach (and this 'reach' will have to be revised constantly!). It's not fair to set them up for failure by saying "I won't change what's in my house, he has to learn some things aren't to be touched".
At 3, he could be very ready to reason with. For example, my 2.5 yo son will be getting into something I don't want him in and I can ask him 'what are you doing?' to ascertain what he's trying to get out of the exercise. He'll usually tell me and we can figure out a compromise, or I'll help him get whatever he's scrambling to reach that is safe for him to have. If he's just stringing out cos he's tired or whatever, I'll distract him with a sure-fire distractor.
As I type, my DS has just grabbed my Lancome Juicy Tube (I am VERY emotionally attached to my JT collection!!) and sucked out some of the contents. He's actually done this twice before, so I'm getting better at my reactions. I asked for it back and he did, I put the lid back on and stuck it in my toiletry bag (I'm at my mum's for the weekend, so my stuff isn't where it usually is) where he can't get it. My own fault for leaving it on my mum's desk where he could easily get it. Coming to think of it, I'm the one learning the natural consequences of things!
Spoke to soon, he's just bumped his head on the base of the top bunk...
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thank you mayaness!!! exactly what i was after....
i knew how i dealt with it wasnt right thats why i came looking for answers to find a better way....
once he wakes up his service station will be back(not making a fuss anout its return)
Great post Mayaness, gotta spread the love a little...
I came back with a bit more time to expand but Maya's done it all for me! I was just going to say that consequences either follow or they don't, you can only really "invent" them in very specific circumstances (like if DD is kicking my seat despite a massive amount of legroom in the car i tilt my seat back so she can't do it (the seat is then so close she cannot kick it)) and i basically assume the only thing i can teach DD with consequence creation is how *I* will react to something. It's behavioural - that's NOT what happens if you kick a seat in front of you, it only happens if you do it to Mama in the car. But she once did it on the bus and the woman in the seat in front turned round and asked her not to do it and she cried because she was so shocked to be corrected by a stranger and now she doesn't do it on the bus anymore either. But it relied on me telling her not to do it, and then when the lady turned to correct her, letting that happen. I comforted her when she cried, but i also thanked the lady who made her cry! It takes a village, but you have to LET the village do it!
For my journey as a parent i find putting myself in DD's place ALWAYS helps me find what to do next. Imagine you made a big mistake at work and lost your job, and when you came home and told your DH he said that as a punishment he was going to take your house keys away and only let you in and out when he decided. The lost job would make you re-evaluate your career and how careful you are at work. The arbitrary grounding by DH would make you very angry and bitter indeed! As hard as it can be, i feel the right path for us is that i neither inflict nor protect from consequences, so long as safety isn't too much of a concern.
Having said that, some kids don't learn the hard way OR the easy way - DD lifted a RED HOT COAL from our fire 2 weeks ago with her bare hand and dropped it onto the rug. The coal was bonded to the rug-backing, the pile was burned right to the back and DD had not a single mark on her. She is lucky. I am luckier. We now have a fire guard double bolted to the walls so there is no way for her to get to it. That was MY lesson and i am so grateful to have been given the opportunity to learn it the easy way.
Bx
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I do things a bit differently.
Today, DS walked into the village with me. He did really well, he held my hand so I didn't run off or get lost (yes, it is a bit James James Morrison Morrison but it works well for us). When we left the pharmacist after picking up DS's medicine then DS decided to explore. That's OK, we can explore. But not on the road with the cars.
No, not on the road.
No, not in the car park, there are cars.
If you go near the road without holding hands then you're in the pushchair and we go straight home.
OK, pushchair.
For the next few minutes I spoke to DS at his level to explain that when he runs and hits a wall it hurts. When he runs and hits a car it hurts EVEN MORE because the car is moving too. This makes everything very fast and very hurty. Liebling is allowed to run into walls to learn that it hurts, but not running into cars to learn that lesson. Because Mammy doesn't want Liebling in hospital or dead.
DS got over it. He has learnt about punishment more than consequences, I suppose, but sometimes you have to do it that way. (On reins he would have strained to get into the road and ended up falling on his bum, crying and being carried home so it's still the same.)
Around the house... I don't childproof. DS can touch my things. They're boring things and don't light up, make a sound or have wheels. He doesn't go for them now. The only disaster we've had was the three of us were watching Wolverine and the X-Men (very suitable for all ages) and a photo frame fell from the top of the display cabinet. It's a huge frame for a huge photo and nowhere else to put this. The glass smashed everywhere. All over DS's toys. We cleared up the glass from the floor, the Noah's Ark and the blocks, and have learnt to find better homes for our photos! DS has also learnt that if something smashes he tells us. And when he dropped his plastic cup on the floor, he told me. No telling off, just me mopping up the milk and cleaning the cup as well as thanking DS for telling me about the accident. So, in fact, it helped my teaching by letting DS know it's OK to have accidents!
DS has broken my jewellery before. I just tell him I'm upset (without shouting!) and he comes to give me a hug to apologise. He knows not to pull my necklace but he still does sometimes; I show him how to touch gently each time. Because that is quite hard to learn! (I also wear fairly cheap necklaces these days too LOL.)
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This is a great thread Doudou and I hope you don't mind but would love to discuss this further.
For instance it makes sense to me that I want to parent with natural consequences in mind, I want to avoid the whole punishment thing, I want to try and teach and give my children the tools/skills to be able to make decisions to do things in a positive way, not motivated by fear but I find it hard to know how to put this into practice.
If we take RH example of explaining that walls hurt and cars will hurt more so don't run onto the road and so you are going into the pushchair (I'm assuming this is a pram) then isn't this natural consequences ?? or as someone else said should I be explaining about roads and cars and pram threat as part of the prewarning (and please RH don't take offense as I suspect you did this I just was after some clarification and this was a good example, also Hoobly I know that you carry DD alot so this may not be an issue for you but with my DS currently only 10 months and already over 11.6 kgs (about 24 pounds) it isn't always practical to carry him)
I really get confused as to where to draw the line so to speak for example what Hoobly was saying about being upset but cause her DD is persceptive you don't see this as guilting the child, I want my child to know the consequence of how it makes me feel but at the same time I don't want to guilt him. For example DS is currently learning about being gentle and he is scratching at my face (I believe this is normal thing but he needs to learn - see I don't want him to necessarily learn that because it hurts that he shouldn't do it cause on that theory when he get's older he will think he can do things to other people cause it doesn't hurt him but he may not realise that it hurst other people (his dad is very good at this - I say something hurts and to stop it and he says it doesn't hurt him so it is o.k ect...) but to learn that he shouldn't do it cause it isn't the right thing to do IYKWIM?) so I sometimes pretend to cry to let him know that it hurts, aren't I guilting him into stopping?? I am so confused as to how I should be teaching him, for example do I just say no in a firm voice and tell him to be gentle by showing him and if he continues say no again and put him on the floor when he usualy only acts this way when he is tired?? or do I cry to let him know that it is hurting (see it doesn't hurt much but it isn't something that I want him doing) or should I just ignore it caues he will learn not to do this eventually but if I don't teach him how will he learn ? (see my confusion it could really do my head in if I let it)
Sorry Doudou if I have taken over your thread, please let me know and I will start another one cause I have a few other questions/scenarios I would love to discuss further.
TIA for reading this far
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