Help... Baby too big? - Is scan/induction necessary?

[meow]

My Mum birthed her 3rd baby when she was 40... a 10 pound homebirthed bubby with no problems at all. Even if bubby is big (and hey- it's probably just fluid!) your wife can most definitely do this! All the best

[Julie Doula]

Looking forward to your news, Greg. Your awesome woman has done this twice before, and she can do it again, big baby or no. Affirm her trust in her body and her capabilities. Nature will handle her more gently and wisely than the interventionists who have far too much to be scared of. All the best!

[~clover~]

I know someone who naturally had a 13 pound baby. Scary, but can be done.

[diva-n-dan]

This question always reminds me of my mum. When my mum was pregnant with my youngest brother she was H-U-G-E, I mean seriously OMG-are-you-having-twins-can't-honestly-reach-infront-of-my-belly-huge. Now considering she's only 5foot and her previous pregnancy involved a hugely complicated birth and almost 10pound bonny boy (thanks other brother ) the medical professionals were literally pooing themselves over this pregnancy, all the scans and indications where showing this bub to be an absolute monster.

So when it came time for the labour, her room resembled a circus (this was back in the 80's so routine C-Sections weren't so routine back then), there were OB's galore, more nurses than you could poke a stick at and pediatricians by the bucketload, all awaiting the birth of a sumo wrestler.

So there were ALOT of very sheepish men milling around trying to look useful when mum calmly birthed a 6pd 11ounce bub! LOL!

They were definately needed after the birth (but that had nothing to do with the actual birth itself) so honestly darling take what they say with a pinch of salt ... looks can most definately be deceiving!!!

[GregMonarche]

Thank you ladies...

Well, I thought I would update everyone - and any people dropping by in the future may find it useful with what to expect...

The midwife had phoned the OB to let him know about us. That is, that my wife was:

* 41 years
* 35 weeks pregnant
* Fundas measuring at 41cm
* Retaining fluid
* Overweight - but no post-partum, or current, pre-eclampsia
* Concerned about Ultrasounds affecting the baby

The OB told the midwife he wanted to see us and herself together on Monday, "To talk to us." The midwife couldn't make it for some reason. We were seen (to begin with at least) by a registrar, who admitted he had only recently begun his training.

On the same day, just before that appoinment, DW was scheduled to have:

a) An Ultrasound because they suspected the baby was macrosomic (large for the # of weeks).
b) The simpler version of the Gestational Diabetes test.
c) Blood iron level test.

In the couple of days prior to Monday, I watched this thread. With the comments in mind, I again went reading through this site, plus various other info both for and against. We were reminded there is some concern Ultrasounds can alter the baby at a cellular level. (Although admittedly that risk is possibly low - and maybe even lower at this late stage.) We also read Ultrasounds are inaccurate, sometimes varying wildly when later compared to the actual birth weight.

In addition to this, we read the following three articles from this site:

Gestational Diabetes Article by Henci Goer
Gestational Diabetes and Induction
Induction of Labour - To Induce or Not Induce?

By the time Monday arrived, we had decided against two of the tests.

The registrar admitted he didn't have much experience because he was in training - and so asked us what we were there for.

We replied that the OB requested a meeting with both us and the midwife - she had apparently been unable to make it - and we didn't really know WHY we were asked to come in.

While he measured, took blood pressure, etc. we explained they had thought baby was too big; that we should have Gestational Diabetes test; and another Ultrasound.

We explained we had spent time researching and had decided not to have the Ultrasound, because:

a) There are new findings Ultrasounds can change a developing baby's cells.
b) Ultrasounds are inaccurate.
c) If the inaccuracy was far enough in the "wrong" direction, they would use it to lead us into an early induction.
d) Many inductions become "failed inductions" that in turn lead to C-section, because by then you are committed and have no choice.
e) We had both seen photographic - and read people's own personal experience, and there is no reason a small mother can't birth a large baby.
f) We had read examples of babys being designated large by an Ultrasound, but birthing at a normal, or much lower weight than expected.
g) The possible problems mentioned like shoulder distocia occurs with small babies too.
h) There was no way to tell WHEN an Ultrasound is accurate, so we would not choose to induce based on it anyway. (So what was the point.)

He then asked why we did not want the Gestational Diabetes test:

Because:

a) Gestational Diabetes can negatively affect baby during the first trimester - but we were far past that time. (Isn't this ALONE a good enough reason!?)
b) The GD test/s are based on flawed, extrapolated, 1964 test results.
c) Statistics showed no difference in infant deaths between those with, or without, GD.
d) Test results taken two weeks apart can vary over 20%. So "dangerous" today, might be "just fine" two weeks in the future.
e) No level has been decided on where GD becomes "dangerous".

... and we told him my wife had still had the iron blood test.

I had taken the printed sheets (from this site) with us. If the midwife had showed some interest I would have given them to her. (After our vaccination battles, I don't delibrately mention to doctors I have anything like that with me anymore.) But the registrar asked if the papers I had were where our info was coming from, and asked to see them. He glanced through them a little, then said something to the effect, "Are the things you've read from Australia or overseas though? You can't compare Australia to overseas. Also there are newer, more accurate tests all the time. I don't know what they've come out with lately, so what you've read may not be relevant now."

He asked, "So are you objecting to all medical intervention?" I said no, if something was obviously wrong, we wouldn't say no just for the sake of it. We weren't dead-set against tests as such, but as these were inaccurate (having read that sometimes baby weights are out by 700g-1kg - in EITHER direction), we would not go on to accept induction based on their results - so what would be the use of having them. Especially when my wife has 6 weeks to go, and if anything, appears smaller now than she did with her last two pregnancies - which were normal.

I joked that our second son was born so quick, with #3 we may not even make it to the hospital in time. He again said no test was 100% accurate, but surely if we had TWO tests both indicating something... He also said, "This is Newcastle - it's not like other places. We don't force anything on anyone. We make recommendations, and at any point you can say stop."

At that point he went to find the OB. (Yes, that would be the one that originally requested the appointment with us and the midwife.)

The OB ran through the same questions and we mostly gave the same answers. I added, "But GD only affects the baby in the first trimester and that time has long past. So even if she does have GD, it's too late to do anything about it now."

Now the fun starts...

My wife was originally placed into a fairly recent type of birthing arrangement. I forget what it's called, but my wife was to give birth in what they call the Birthing Centre - and the midwife we've been seeing would probably be the one who attends the birth. (Rather than someone random.)

The (obviously more irritated than the Registrar) OB says, "Because you're refusing the tests, you fall outside the conditions of the Birthing Centre. I'll have to talk to the department head to see if he'll let you give birth there, because you don't qualify. I'll have to call later and let you know what his decision is."

Me: "Where WOULD we go then."
Ob: "The Labour Ward."
Me: "And where is that compared to the Birth Centre?"
Ob: "It's in the same section - just two or three doors down the same hallway."
Me: "What's the difference?"
Ob: "It's in the same section."
Reg: "The rooms are even the same size."
Me: "Does the Labour section not have a bathtub like the Birth Centre does?"
Reg: "No, some of them have baths as well."
Ob: "You really have put yourself outside the rul... ah - guidelines. I'll have to talk to..."
Me: "No big deal. We'll go there."
Reg: "I'll have to talk to X..."
Me: "Sounds fine. Makes no difference to us."

So although everyone happily chimes together things are your decision... That this hospital/staff are different to "other places" (whatever that means)... That you won't be forced into decisions against your will... The reality is, they're only happy with YOUR decision while it agrees with THEIRS. If not, you're made to feel you're a fanatic luddite, that doesn't know your own body, cannot think nor research anything for yourself without a 7-year PhD, and "phantom privileges" will be "stripped" (like being shifted two rooms down the same hallway) to enforce your decision is really wrong after all. All this when the tests they want to give you are inaccurate, are being given at the wrong time for any useful treatment to be given anyway, and those same tests wrongly lead many women into failed inductions and onto unwanted C-sections.

In reality, they probably should let my wife stay in the Birth Centre. Goodness knows with all the unnecessary, failed inductions leading to C-sections... A healthy woman giving birth to a normal, healthy baby unaided might lift their mortality statistics.

By the way... A week ago my wife measured 40-41cm. A week later at this appointment she measured the same. Blood pressure was up a little last week. This week back to normal. (The same can't be said for mine.)

[MantaRay]

Greg, well done to you and your DW. Many more pg women need you there to advocate for them!!

Please keep us informed, I can't wait to read a birth announcement from you. I wish you both all the very best over the next few weeks.

[HotKim]

Greg, good on you for standing up for yourself!!! And your wife!!

As an expectant mother whose last delivery resulted in shoulder dystocia I had similar 'privileges' revoked when the midwife based care program I applied for accepted and them dumped me. What irks me most is that surely my experience means I can only benefit from having one on one care instead of having me, my baby and my history passed on to every midwife and doctor in the hospital?

Anyway, based on research done over a few months I've decided to go ahead with a c-section. I'm happy with my decision which I think is the key thing in cases like these, that you don't feel cornered or bullied into an outcome. I can accept the consequences of my own decisions but would cetainly not those made without my support.

Best of luck!!