Reply With QuoteI read something about rituals after AF aswell, does this still happen? You had to go and see a Rabbi or something. They would be pretty busy!
Yep, they are pretty spot on! Except that sash one, I am unfamiliar about it. For the Orthodox Community. I am not sure how laid back about these things that the Reform or Liberals are though.
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I read something about rituals after AF aswell, does this still happen? You had to go and see a Rabbi or something. They would be pretty busy!
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Hoprah - which community are you involved in?
I know a few people from Canberra, even went there a few times to lead for Hineni when i was a madricha.
Do you know the Shroot's, they are big in Canberra?
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Thanks Yael, that is really interesting. I think the tradition of not talking about pg used to be very common in Christian circles too - I'm not sure how long ago, but I'm sure I've heard of it from times past. I don't think in that context it was religious though, more a manners thing, it just wasn't considered polite conversation. But I'm wondering if the origins of the tradition are the same (or similar) as for Judaism. Anyway, like the others I think it's a great idea. It must be so hard for you though when you are asked. Just a question too, how does pre-natal care fit in - obviously you discuss the pg with your medical professional(s), so I'm guessing that is ok? Or would there be some groups that would forgo ante-natal care?
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MelanieR - i will have to try and find sources for the custom, i'll get back to you guys on that one.
There is nothing wrong with discussing the pregnancy when you need to - i.e. doctors, obs, pharmacists, rabbi's or even friends if you need support... But i think the main feeling is there is no real celebrations before the baby is born, things can unfortuantly go wrong, and so its just not really supposed to be talked about for with every person you meet!
I don't know any group that doesn't have medical care.. I know one group (lubavitch) doesn't have ultrasounds, but that is for a different reason.
SaraJane - yes, we have a whole set of laws about periods.. It is a very long and complicated area (you don't have to see a rabbi unless there is a big problem), but it would take me a long time to summarize it all. If you want to google it and then ask questions look up "family purity in judaism", you should find some basic info on it.
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Thanks Yael!
OOh, it says you can't DTD when you have AF or for 7 days after, so that would mean you would do it around O time. Another proof for me the bible is true and that we should trust it because there's bigger reasons behind things that we don't always see.
Last edited by Heaven; September 21st, 2007 at 07:32 AM.
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Oh wow SJ, that's interesting. I discovered when pg with Jack (after 9 months of TTC) that I O very early on in my cycle (well I must have that month because the dating scan showed him to be 8 days more advanced than based on my LMP). I would have found it very hard to conceive with no DTDing until 7 days after AF - I wonder if that's an issue for some people?
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Another question Yael - does the fact that you don't celebrate until the birth, mean that the foetus is not recognised as a life (ie in terms of abortion etc)? I am pretty sure that isn't the case, but I would be interested to hear the Jewish perspective on that ever controversial philosophical debate.
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Yael - This discussion brings me to another question of curiosity. So for those who practice the Leviticus laws (I think thats where they are at), you abstain from sex until 7 days past the flow of blood. What is the policy after birth? do you simply have to wait 7 days past the end of any blood showing, or is things total different? If no monthly flow, can a couple engage in sexual activity through out post birth but pre-AF or do you have to observe any type of break on a monthly basis still?
Wow, bet you feel like the professor of Judaism 101!
Last edited by Dustmite; September 24th, 2007 at 01:26 PM.
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Wow, this is all very interesting.
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Yael: Just would like to let you know that I have Googled Family Purity and Judaism. Very interesting! I especially like the idea of abstinance:
"Many believe that this period of separation also has psychological benefits. A couple that abstains from sex for two weeks each month is likely over time to form a strong non-physical attachment to each other. Over time and especially as the couple ages, this non-physical bond becomes an important part of a marriage. Secondly, like anything that isn't constantly available, the physical relationship between the husband and wife becomes more special and appreciated as a result of this period of physical separation."
Makes perfect sense.
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I'm very partial to that idea, too - now, just to convince DP as to the merits of it!
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ya good luck on that. As a guy not of Jewish faith, I don't completly buy into that aspect in and of itself. Not in a healthy relationship. LOL, not sure your DP will either!
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I think what the tradition is alluding to is that "absence can make the heart grow fonder". Maybe if more women didn't feel under constant pressure to "have relations" then they would actually be willing to engage during the window of opportunity and the husbands might end up "getting more" in the long run.
Yael
Yep, know the Shroots. How could one not??? LOL!
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Something that is interesting for DW and I is that we decided to no longer use birth control and trust G_d with our fertility. Since then DW has not felt like pressure or that she was just an object. It's not that I was actually viewing or treating her that way, but phsycologicaly she felt that way when she knew there was not much of a chance of PH (due to BC). Anyhow, not sure what that is worth but just throwing it out there.
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Hmmm, even when DH and I knew that our family was not complete (eg, when I was studying at uni in between children) I felt under pressure and this put me off.
As I grow older I am starting to enjoy the seasonal nature of things. I'm doing the whole 'delayed gratification' thing better than when I was younger. It's a bit like how all our fruits and vegies are available all year 'round through hot-housing ... yet the quality isn't as good as seasonally grown foods. To everything there is a season and a time. Women who feel like they have to be available all the time probably aren't "at their best" either.
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Interesting though Bath. I'm wondering which vege I am - LOL! I do know what you mean though. I think also, we feel "entitled" to things so much in our society - if I want it now I should be able to have it now - whereas in the past, and in less affluent societies they didn't / don't feel that. And I guess being able to DTD whenever one wants is an extension of that mentality, so things like Billings for BC are not popular as it does require abstinence at certain times (I know there are other reasons for this unpopularity too, just making a point here). Historically I think abstinence at certain times would have been tolerated far better.
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