$2 roundabout rides and 'freeloaders'

[Rouge]

Of course words can be meaningless so can actions. So be genuine and teach your children to be genuine, regardless of others.

I would hate to see common courtesy go out of date due to the idea that we live in a less than honest world.

[PumpkinZulu]

I agree with asking your child to wait if another child is using the ride. If another parent puts money in and DD wants to go on, we'll let her know that she needs to wait until the other child is done. Sometimes the parent will offer (in which case I'll offer to pay for another ride after), otherwise no biggie, DD learns about waiting and sharing and being social, and then she gets to ride anyway. I don't know, I don't see the big deal myself. Kids like rides, kids generally enjoy playing with other kids, and it's $2. I figure if I'm paying for the ride, it may as well be full. The only gripe I have is an older child being silly and scaring the younger ones, in which case I'll nicely remind them that there are little kids on the ride and to be careful. I think learning to be social and play and share, and learning to be patient and wait are equally important and I think both lessons gain easily be gained in the sane situation.

[Jellyfish]

Maybe Im just not clear what the point of a 'thank you' is if the person doesnt mean it? What is a thank you actually for? What are manners for? It doesnt feel like it solves the actual issue of entitlement to focus on people saying it rather than feeling it. I think if we focus on people feeling it then people will be motivated to say it? And if we focus on our own actions, feelings and thoughts then we can find appreciation outside of the words; you know that song about taking the words I love you away? What would we do without the words thank you? If we couldnt just easily throw them out to make things 'right' without even stopping to think about the meaning, if we had to actually think about it all a little harder.

Im not saying ditch manners, quite the opposite. I want them to stick around but with the feeling behind them, not just as empty words. If there is no concern for the meaning behind the sentiments then we might as well get rid of them though, honestly. Because they are pointless right? Maybe a fake it till you make it way does work? Or maybe it just makes people lazy and thoughtless in their emotions, detached from them. And I think focusing on the way the world looks rather than the way the world feels is just setting yourself up to be disappointed. It is an illusion, do we want something to seem good or be good?

It is like not forcing children to say thank you or sorry or whatever. I never have, it is their feelings to acknowledge and express, not mine to force into existence through empty expressions. I want them to recognize the feeling, not the situation - does that make sense? And people need to get back to that point too. So caught up in the rules and prompts and signs and words, not about what we are actually feeling. And my children have 'manners'. My daughter thanks me for dinner, for holding DD2 so she can pack something away without it being unpacked, for driving her to parties. But more important is that she has feelings of gratitude; she feels it and wants me to know she feels it. Isnt that what it is actually about in the end?

I think Ive gone wildly off topic into my own kind of rant. I get that feeling appreciation is important but so is feeling compassion; people make mistakes, people are learning things they might not have had the opportunities to before through no fault of their own, we are all on different emotional/social schedules of discovery. What benefit is there to me to think somebody is not thankful when they dont express it in the way I think they should? What benefit is there to me to think somebody is thankful even when they dont verbalise it?

I dont know where the less than honest world comes from, I just mean we make assumptions people are thankful because they say it, why cant we extend it to if they dont? I just like to assume the best in people, maybe it motivates them to demonstrate it and I know if I messed up I would prefer somebody didnt waste time harboring negativity over it but let the experience of giving remain positive because that is their path of growth, mine is the mistake and learning from it.

[Rouge]

Tooooo many words! Just kidding seriously though I have never ever expressed a thank you and didn't mean it. Of course certain situations cause a greater feeling of gratitude than others doesn't mean either is less valid. I think maybe we're over analysing a little bit. And my kids have manners and have a very good understanding of gratitude We had an awesome discussion less than a week ago about apologies and not knowing how to fix a problem and empathy. Was an hour long conversation. Started over a fight the kids had. And since then both have been practicing how to show empathy (Not have it as they both do, but expressing that in situations that need it is something they are learning). My point is niceties aren't bad things, teaching your children etiquette isn't a bad thing, and if I were in another country I would adopt their traditions in order to not offend etc. I see no difference here.

In seriousness I've never harboured I'll will over a thank you lol.

[briggsy's girl]

I think the words are irrelevant. It's the feeling of appreciation/gratitude. It's clearly NOT something far too many people feel, let alone express. I don't always make dd say thank you, but we talk about why she is thankful, why something someone has said/done is nice etc. DD often plays on the round about rides if her and granma/us are having their drink at one of the tables nearby. It's a great learning tool for her in sharing, accepting she can't always have what she wants. I don't want her to say thank you out of a meaningless habit. So we all work with her on other ways of expressing gratitude. "Wow, you're a lucky girl being able to have a ride with this little boy/girl - isnt that nice of their mummy?" We make sure it's known that the gesture is appreciated bit ill admit I don't always use the words "thank you". Unfortunately far too many people don't even do this. "Quick go jump on the ride while its going" is just encouraging that sense of entitlement and really drives me nuts!

We generally don't pay for rides often. Dd is happy with them without the actual ride going. But if there are a few little kids happily playing together ill shout them a ride....

[Jellyfish]

lol too few words!! No, I get it, I think. I dont think there is harm in questioning the importance of something beyond the fact it has always been important though either, the assumed neccesity of things should always be explored and challenged imo! Doesnt mean I neccesarily think something should be removed, usually more renewed!

And I promise I never thougth people in general didnt mean it or that they didnt enable their children to feel gratitude, just more explaining cant there be other ways people give and learn thanks than words. I do think the outward expression is important though not neccesarily the exact words thank you, not just for the people within the exchange but those witnessing it. Kindness is infectious!

[nickle730]

JF, I agree with your sentiment, but I also think that basic manners are the social lubrication which allow us to all rub along together in a pleasant way.

[Jellyfish]

That is a good way to put it nickle, thanks! And I guess I was just thinking aloud do we need it because we need it or do we need it because we have been conditioned to... like if we all just universally agreed to accept people were grateful without hearing so and did away with the words completely would things change? Is thank you only the default level of courtesy because we have made it so? But then I realise it wouldnt really work to get rid of it (even if this was a parallel world where it never existed in the first place) because somebody would find someway to show "more" gratitude and then people would begin adopting it to try and meet that level and then more do and it becomes the default where everybody needs to adopt it as it becomes expected which I guess is exactly how we got here in the first place. So Im sold, it probably is a good base level to keep lol.

[AndiE]

I'm a little surprised by the discussion around the word thank you. Surely "please" and "thank you" are the two cornerstones of manners? Even the most socially awkward person can cough up "please" or "thank you" when the situation warrants it. Or am I just totally out of sync with society today. I insist my kids say please and thank you - it's up to other parents if they do or don't. But it is what I do as I think good manners in children stand out a country mile. ETA: It was a "thanks" from the mother that I was hoping for ... not really the two-ish year old child.

I'm compassionate, I'm empathetic, I like to make my kids happy and I'm happy to make other people's kids happy. I don't do things for other people to make myself feel good.

So while I'm happy to give another kid a ride when my boys are on the roundabout. I just like to hear "thank you", that's all.

[fionas]

Wow

Erm, my thoughts:

I would take my 5yo off a non-moving ride if someone else wanted a go. She is old enough to understand taking turns and not getting everything your own way.

I would avoid taking my 2 yo off a non-moving rise if at all possible. She would likely have a kicking and screaming tantrum. I have a bad back and trying to lift an angry tornado is not good for me and unsafe for her because I might drop her.

It doesn't mean she's a brat with a sense of entitlement, just a mighty toddler. Most parents instinctively understand that and would either wait their turn or offer to put money in. In which case I would of course say thank you.

[Phteven]

My kids don't use those rides any more but when they did we lived in a suburb with a large refugee community.
Because of the work restrictions on their visas etc some people genuinely can't throw away $2 on a ride so I always chucked the money in so all our children could have a ride.
Do I expect a thank you. It's nice but seeing children having fun is reward enough.

[2CheekyMonkeys]

I hear ya, a thank you is always appreciated !

I don't like my kids playing on those rides, they are covered in germs. But that's s whole other thread. ;-)

[RhiChiChi]

I would have asked if it was ok for my child to stay on unless they had numerous children and she was taking up a seat that one of them could have. I say thanks or ask if they want half of the ride fare, I am always turned down. I encourage other kids to hop on if there is room, the more the merrier and as one other poster said doesn't seem like such a 'waste' of money with the ride full

[AndiE]

I don't like my kids playing on those rides, they are covered in germs. But that's s whole other thread. ;-)

Ewww, now why didn't I ever think of that!

[Cassius2]

I don't agree that you should automatically whip your kid off a ride that they were on first simply because someone with money shows up. In my case I give my kids a heads-up that someone else is waiting for a turn (if it is one of those single kid ride numbers) or if it is a multi-kid one I tend to do a quick head count and if there are enough spaces then I dont expect to ask my child to get off. TBH though we are rarely on those things long enough to really have any fuss.

If i have a coin i will throw it in and if there are kids looking like they want to get on, i always ask if they want to join in too...the more the merrier!

[peanutter]

Some days I look at those rides, and I want to have a ride.

[wysiwyg]

I don't agree that you should automatically whip your kid off a ride that they were on first simply because someone with money shows up.

I agree - because if there are lessons that are learnt from 2 dollar rides I dont want it to be "if you have money you don't have to wait your turn" (although true in many aspects of life unfortunately) that isn't the message I like to promote. If you have two dollars to spend you wait or you share the two dollars. I like to think of it about how I would like my children to behave if I wasn't there - and if I wasn't there I would want them to either wait till free to put money in or to say "would you like to ride with me". If my child wasn't the payer I would like them to say "yes thankyou that would be lovely" or "no thanks let me hop off". If toddlers could talk and do this would be much simpler they would be happy to share etc they have no concept of free loading and am sure would be polite. I think us adults over complicate things - e.g feeling bad if get a few free rides, wondering if other parent thinks free loading etc.

Rouge - now understood that you were talking about something different. I don't understand the whole chocolate thing - is that about chocolate at checkouts?

[peanutter]

Re the "thank you" tangent, IMHO an automatic "thank you" doesn't equate to a hollow thank you.

I would like to think that my DS1, who almost invariably says thank you and (often but not as consistently) says please has been brought up to have an attitude of gratitude and respect, rather than that he's been brought up to spout meaningless words.

He has, to my belief, understood the meaning, appropriate context and heart of a genuine "thank you" and he uses it appropriately - having seen it used appropriately and genuinely by those whose behaviour he models.