Oh Kell! That really sux! My heart goes out to you hun. I can very much understand your frustration! I hope those 3 weeks fly for you.
Arielle
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Oh Kell! That really sux! My heart goes out to you hun. I can very much understand your frustration! I hope those 3 weeks fly for you.
Arielle
Kell, sorry to hear that you have been stuffed around. I'd be majorly peeved too.
Nic
Hi everyone
I hope you are all doing ok today.
Is it ok if I 'vent' for a minute?
I hope I dont offend anyone by whinging about this.
I have 8 days to go until I find out if we are pregnant. We had to cancel oour first cycle as my follies didnt grow. I am so nervous and cant get out of my head that it might not work, it is driving me crazy. I am so depressed today. I know I should be positive but I cant shake the feeling it is not going to happen for us...........I should be grateful we got this far as last time we didnt but....I just cant help it.:(
Sorry for my outburst. I was so angry. I ended up contacting my FS and saying is there anything that can be done? 10 minutes later MIVF called and had had a cancellation and I can start immediately.. Coincidence or not, I'll take it. I see why this is called a rollercoaster.
Carla,
Hugs and hang in there sweet try not to let the neagtives creep in here are some affirnations I use, they may help you. Best of Luck
It is safe for me to have my baby.
There is nothing to fear.
I am calm and relaxed. My baby feels my calmness and shares
it.
The baby and I are ready for our lives together to unfold.
The baby is naturally doing what he or she should.
I love my body.
It has served me well.
Now I must share my body.
The life within calling out every day to my blood,
To my inner most thoughts.
Yes I can hear you.
I can feel you.
Growing inside without care.
I await your every movement with joy.
I know this is my ultimate purpose in life.
To bring forth life.
With hopeful ease.
There are times when I will have moments of discomfort.
I will remember that this is part of the whole.
My body is talking to me.
I will stay healthy.
Not putting in my body that which I wish to keep from the child once born.
I will stay steady in mind.
Knowing that when the time arrives,
I will need the steady focus for the task at hand.
I believe in myself.
I have been given the strength of billions of women before me.
I will remember that this is a temporary situation.
Making it the best I can will give me the best memories,
For once born,
I will never experience this child inside again.
I will love my body.
For as my body grows,
So will the attachment to this child.
An attachment that will never leave me,
All the days of my life.
As each new day dawns,
I will be thankful for it.
Awaiting, with patience,
The coming of the child,
And the birth of my family.
Kell,
Glad you can go ahead sweet
Linda
Oh Kell you poor thing getting stuffed around like that. I haven't had any problems with them - touch wood. I hope it all goes well.
Carla, dont worry we all feel like that at some stage. Big hugs!!
hey all
thanks for the welcomes and i am feeling good about this cycle - may it be our last!
TL - i am going to print this affirmation out - thank you for sharing it. do you read louise hay?
arielle sweetie, you are doing amazing this TWW. i love your attitude and wish you the best hun.
carla - vent away hun. we are people that can totally relate to how you are feeling and no one will mind you sharing. it is a tough road and you have been through a lot already. if it helps you to feel more normal, i heard on the radio that IVF is more stressful for a lot of couples than coping with cancer.
BB - i am glad to hear it worked out for you in the end but what an emotional ride you have been on (no doubt one of many with the whole TTC thing) :hugs:
holly - so lovely to see you around. i hope there is some relief for your legs soon.
mursla - best of luck with your FET.
nellie - best of luck tomorrow with your EPU. it is nice you are getting it done so early in the morning. take it easy afterwards.
nic - so happy you are finally on the IVF cycle hun. you have been so patient these last few months. glad to hear you have some nice follies - bugger about the long drive again.
bec - i feel for you, cancellation is a shock. it is good you have an appt with your FS to get some answers and focus on where to from here with you TTC plan. :hugs:
:hello: to all
me picked up my lucrin today so just waiting for the red flow....
xx dusty
Kell, that's fantastic that you can start this cycle.
Nic
Dusty,
Go with the affirmation I don't read Loauise hay but I found this to be good :)
Just thinking on that comment of IVF being more stressful than cancer...
It's probably due to the fact that there's public awareness and acceptance of cancer. It's something that can actually be talked about in normal, every day conversation. Infertility is hidden, it's secret. It's not something that is normally talked about, so it has the effect of isolating the people who suffer from it.
A cancer sufferer gets sympathy and understanding and a lot of support. People know when they have tests and procedures and rally around.
Infertility sufferers... get to do all the tests and procedures alone. Make up excuses for why they need to have yet another day off.
Yes, I can see why IVF is more stressful than cancer...
BW
Hey Tigger:
Gee thanks for that.....that was sooooo sweet......and so true.
positive positive positive....
I was tempted to get a pregnancy test tonight.....do you think if i have 7 days tomorrow to go that it would be too soon..i dont want to jinx myself but Im dying to know!!!! This is torture.
Thanks again Tigger.........your kind words have helped.....:D
i was reading a post in another thread and only just realised that 2 of the 3 Dixie Chicks had been through IVF to conceive their children. they wrote a song about it afterwards.
and BW i agree it isn't so hard to understand or believe. i think the hardest thing for me is when people say we are putting this stress on ourselves, because they say it is our choice to do this and we cld choose not to do it (ie try and have kids). they just don't get it :wall:
here are the lyrics, they speak to me. on their Taking The Long Way album
SO HARD
Back when we started
We didn't know how hard it was
Living on nothing
But what the wind would bring to us
Now we've got something
I can imagine fighting for
So why is fighting all that we're good at anymore
And sometimes I don't have the energy
To prove everybody wrong
And I try my best to be strong
But you know it's so hard
It's so hard
It's so hard when it doesn't come easy
It's so hard when it doesn't come fast
It's so hard when it doesn't come easy
It's so hard
It felt like a given
Something a woman's born to do
A natural ambition
To see a reflection of me and you
And I'd feel so guilty
If that was a gift I couldn't give
And could you be happy
If life wasn't how we pictured it
And sometimes I just want to wait it out
To prove everybody wrong
And I need your help to move on
Cause you know it's so hard
It's so hard
It's so hard when it doesn't come easy
It's so hard when it doesn't come fast
It's so hard when it doesn't come easy
So hard
I can live for the moment
When all these clouds open up for me to see
And show me a vision
Of you and me swimming peacefully
Last night you told me
That you can't remember
How to feel free
It's so hard when it doesn't come easy
It's so hard when it doesn't come fast
It's so hard when it doesn't come easy, easy
It's so hard
dusty - i absolutely love this song - and it brings me to tears so often - but in the right way! here are women who could quite honestly have anything they want - and yet they've had to go through this incredibly tough journey to get to have a baby
the two that went through it are sisters Emily and Marty - and they make mention of it in their movie. we went to their concert October last year, and the passion when they were singing this live was just amazing - gives me goosebumps thinking about it...
Dusty, just wanted to agree on that song. its brilliant. We also went to their concert after friends gave us some tickets and it was the best I have seen live. Love the chicks!!!
BW is the research about infertility being worse than cancer by Domar, Zuttmeister and Friedman? I was really intrigued by it. Infertility was compared to cancer, HIV, chronic pain, hypertension and cardiac rehab patients and the results were that infertility was equiv. or worse in terms of symptom, anxiety and depression. Not at all surprising I thought, but so wonderful to have recognised.
Dusty I loved this song before I knew what it was about thanks for that!
Carla - Test when it feels right for you - My sister tested everyday though her IVF to see how she was going me on the other hand trys to wait and then caves on day 7 or 8 after transfer if it feels right do it!
Well Ladies off for my scan at 12 today to see how the folliles are growing! Had my clairvoyant do a reading yesterday which is in my blog and she say there a 2 baby sprirts waiting for us. Excited can't sit still LOL :)
Baby Bliss, it was Dusty that mentioned the research, I just went off on a little rant about it. Just as a little example, there is a teacher at my school who has been diagnosed with cancer. We are both out pretty frequently with appointments and stuff, when this other teacher is out, nobody complains about having to pick up extra classes. When I'm out, because I tell very few people at work what's going on, I return to grumbles and complaints from the people who have had to cover my classes. If I miss deadlines, I cop it. The other person, everyone makes allowances and is accepting. Now, I know that cancer treatments leave you a lot sicker than the side effects of fertility meds, but there is a very big difference in the way the two situations are perceived. In both cases there's a huge amount of time taken up with appointments and procedures, there's a huge emotional toll as well - but there's a huge difference in which one it is "appropriate" to talk about, and a huge difference in the support from colleagues that is offered.
Now that ovulation has passed and I'm in the wait for transfer, the anxiety has diminished considerably. I'm no longer climbing the walls, but I guess I'm stuck in frustrated-mode, hence my little rants. I'll be over it soon enough.
TL, good luck with the scan, I hope you get good results.
:hello: everyone. I've been a bit stressed out and pre-occupied lately, I'm aiming to catch up and get a bit more involved in this thread again now that my killer pre-O anxiety has passed. Probably the one thing I hate most about all of this...
BW
Well hi to everyone. Because for some reason this thread isn't on my subscribe list I actually forgot about it (oops!), so I've just caught up on where everyone is at. I can't sit here for long as my back is rooted so I'm not going to try personals at the moment, but good luck to everyone as I can see many of you are at important stages.
Sparkles, thanks for stopping by, I was hoping everything was going OK with your surprise pregnancy. Transfer for us is a bit over a week away assuming all goes well. Haven't given it a lot of thought thus far, and we're not sure at the moment if the FS is going to advise putting one or two back. Apart from that life continues as normal!
Re the cancer vs IVF thing, I don't agree with this at all. Without a doubt IVF is very difficult for those going through it to varying degrees based on the number of cycles, the success rate and the personalities of those involved, but at least IVF patients don't have the constant fear of death, the treatments which far and away are worse than what IVF dishes out, and the ongoing ramifications for the rest of their life (assuming they live) arising from the damage treatment causes.
I do appreciate the covert nature (by choice) of IVF leads to a feeling of isolation and separation from the community at large I guess, but I'd choose that any day over the fear of death and leaving DW, my family and my friends behind; not being able to move or eat through extreme illness; having a permanent channel inserted into my chest for drug administration; having small tattoos on my body so the radiotherapy can be administered at exact points; and maybe living without a lung, bowel, kidney or limb. That list doesn't even really begin to cover it. The worst that can happen from failed IVF is that you don't end up with biological kids (and no-one's saying that's easy to take). The worst that can happen from failed cancer treatment is that you die.
I'm not agro or anything about this (just thought I'd clarify as you can't transmit tone of the net!) but I 100% don't agree with that comparison as the two things are in different universes.
BW, I can definitely understand why the example you raised is stressful, and I'd feel exactly the same. But deciding to tell people about IVF treatment or cancer treatment is a choice. There's no rule to say you can't tell people about it and help them to understand (not that I've told anyone apart from the eseentials at my work mind you, same for DW). Whilst that example is understandable and a cause of stress, I still don't see it as being in the same league as cancer in any way. Of course, other people may disagree.
Rols, I see what you are saying and I don't think the diseases are comparable in that sense. I think in terms of how each person experiences their disease independent of anything else, the sensations felt are intense to the same level... even though obviously, if you had a choice, you would choose the non life threatening option. Am I making sense? Or is this totally irrelevant to your point? (Probably!)
BW - I am really passionate about that. The level of awareness and acceptance of infertility and its impact is dreadful. I have been really honest all throughout my infertility journey, about all the thoughts and feelings I have - the good, the bad, and the ugly and downright shocking. Its not as though I want to experience these things, but they are real and valid. The number of people I have had say thank you, i thought it was just me and I wondered what the hell was wrong with me... Makes me even more determined to somehow play a part in creating more awareness and more education, somehow. Anyhow.
Rols, point taken. I guess I'm just in a bit of a cranky mood about it all. I guess I also have a greater fear of being childless than I do of dying or losing loved ones, but I'm a bit strange like that.
BB, I was the same once. I was very open with friends and family about what infertility was and the way if effected us. I was on a one-woman mission to change the world's ideas about infertility, and I was going to make sure everyone understood what it was like to be on my side of the fence... But pregnancy and the miscarriage changed all that. So many people knew when my transfer was, knew when the blood test was, knew that I was pregnant from the day dot... and as a result, my miscarriage was very public and "out there". I've since retired from my "infertility advocacy", I just don't have the emotional energy for it now, and need to do things quietly, in a much more closed circle of support... I am glad to know that I'm not the only one who feels the way I did about it all.
BW
BB and BW, I get your points and I think we are just coming at it from different angles. I am just taking my typically technical and pragmatic view of everything. I'm a bit black and white. But, actual treatment and end result aside, I can see the correlation to a point.
BW, your retirement from "infertility advocacy" ( :) ) is very understandable. I couldn't stand if everyone knew about us, and as it is way more people know than I think need to. I wouldn't have even told my parents if I didn't have to find out the cause of their infertility. It's a double edged sword - having wide spread support is helpful, but everyones expectations weigh a ton, and for me that's the stuff I find harder to deal with.
I've just realised, all this sitting down at the computer isn't actually that hard on my back. Cool.
I disagree.....the more people that know the better. Why would you not want the people around you not knowing. Support with this is a must. I couldnt imagine not telling my parents or family and friends about this. Having their support is what has got my DH and I through this difficult experience.
Hi everyone...have been lurking!
BW - I totally understand your position and need for privacy. I've found over that past 8 years that I have gone through times when I want the world to know and times when I have even lied to keep everything just between DH and myself. At this point in time I'm not talking about it at all. I'm tired of educating everyone and dealing with their lack of understanding. The media has done us an injustice in presenting IVF as this 'WOW chuck an egg and sperm together and VOILA a baby!!!' Annoys me no end. I think it's really important to respect the place each person finds themself at...it's a long road with so many ups and downs.
Rols - Really interested in the cancer discussion. A few weeks ago I probably would have said IVF is the worst thing in the world...but since the scare with the mole thing my whole perspective has changed. For me, there are now much worse things than not having a baby...the thought of leaving DH and my family and the effect that would have had on their lives...don't even want to think about it.
I love that everyone is so respectful of others opinions in this thread...you are such an awesome bunch...without you guys I wouldn't be as together as I am today...you are the best xxx
Carla, to some extent you are right. But, when you find yourself constantly beating your head against a brick wall trying to make someone understand this... and keep getting the insensitive, stupid comments time after time, it does get wearing. I come from a very fertile family (more trouble staying not pregnant than actually getting pregnant), and lot of them lack empathy. In the end it was just hurting me to be trying to make them understand.
There's also the element of phone calls on blood test day to check how things go. Phone calls from people asking "where are you at in your cycle?" There's enough pressure from yourselves on each cycle without getting it externally as well. But it was something I did, to help others understand. I don't regret it, but I just can't do it anymore. Especially when we were in the position of having to tell a lot of people about the miscarriage, not something I ever want to experience again. Knowing that there are factors that mean another miscarriage is more likely (despite all the medications I can take to help prevent it), means I really do want to go through this next cycle more quietly. Sure, the close circle of support is still there, but it's not being broadcast to the world this time.
I'm not saying it's wrong to do this either way. Some people are intensely private, while others are much more open. I've switched from on to the other, and that's ok. It's about doing what you need to do in order to get through it all with a shred of sanity intact in the end.
BW
BW - What i HATE more than anything is when there is something on the TV about 'Infertility' and everyone phones you to tell you about it...like they think they are the only one's with this 'new knowledge' and my FS probably doesn't know about it yet...after a few phone calls I get a bit SHORT!@?!
BW - I know what you are saying but I also know I couldnt have done half of this without the support of the people I have told......Oh but I must say...some people are horrible and insensitive as you say...get this everyone...I work with the worlds biggest biatch......when my first IVF cycle was cancelled due to my follies not growing.....she said...quote: Well Im glad its cancelled this time as now I dont need to train anyone so soon!!!!! YER its people like that that you could just smash in the face when you are going through something like this!!!!
BW - and again, I agree. But you know, I think that in doing it quietly, its simply another version of advocacy. You choose a different target. You show others that you need to do it in the way that suits you best, and enables you to cope and others need to fit into that, because that is how it has to be for you. The loud and proud version is incredibly difficult at times, because you DO cop that ignorance, and there are times where arguing a point to educate has sent me to a pit of despair I didn't need to end up in. I wish it were all very different.
Yep, Ellie. Had that, too. I know they mean well, but when you get told "there's a show on infertility/IVF, you really should see it"... and then watch it, and it's full of false hope and scaremongering about the impacts of fertility treatment on the children conceived with it... We've even had "you shouldn't be doing this because your children will also be infertile!"... I like to remind them of the fact that your parents' fertility is not necessarily and indication of your own. Both DH and I come from extremely fertile families, and that trait obviously wasn't inherited by either of us :rolleyes:. Also, the world's first IVF baby conceived her own children naturally... there's no guarantees in this!
Weird how I woke up happy and relaxed today, but I've certainly got my cranky pants on now. I think the increased prednisone dosage is starting to impact on my mood! Still happy and relaxed, but I think sometimes we all need a bit of a communal rant and vent to blow off steam.
BW
Oh Good Luck Tigger......lets us know.....................sending huge hugs for you xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Hey BW - what meds are you on this time...did DR S recommend them...just picked up on the prednisolone in your post?
Thanks Carla how are you doing today sweet?
hmmmm well Ok I think......not as "FERREL" as yesterday...just still abit anxious....always needing to pee...is that a sign or is it just my diabetes??????
Do you thinkits too early to do a HPT???? I have 7 days to go????If I was pregnant and had my transfer on Monday being the 8th.......would that mean I am 1 week overdue with my periods if it was done naturally...god Im so confused???
Ellie, it's basically the same meds as last cycle. I needed the prednisone for arthritis relief back in winter, and knowing now that I have too many NK cells, and observing the spotting every time I reduced my prednisone dosage, we're going through this cycle with more. 20mg of prednisone (was 10mg for the first cycle) in addition to everything else I take for the arthritis, PCOS and anxiety. I'm not even going to count all the tablets I take in a day now!
I'll be on the higher dose prednisone and metformin right through to 12 weeks this time. Having read a little bit about how metformin acts to prevent miscarriage in women with PCOS, there's no way in hell I'm reducing my dosage this time, regardless of what my GP/OB/FS says!
Short summary: There's a substance called glycodin released in the uterus which helps stop the immune system from attacking a fetus. The immune system is correct in identifying the baby as different from the mother, but is incorrect in attacking it and trying to make it go away. Women with PCOS don't produce enough glycodin, and metformin helps them create more. During my first pregnancy, I was on not enough prednisone, and then in the week before the miscarriage, not enough metformin. I suspect that it was a combination of both that led to things turning bad.
I suspect that in my case, neither the NK cells or the PCOS on their own would be a significant cause of problems. My FS just looks at the PCOS, and thinks of the arthritis as being normal arthritis and hence not a problem. My rheumy looks at my arthritis and doesn't consider the influence of the PCOS in pregnancy problems. Each of them is so focussed on their little bit of the picture that they ignore the rest. It wasn't until we saw Dr S that we realised just how much the two (weird arthritis and PCOS) need to be considered together in order to get me through a pregnancy. I suspect the two conditions feed off each other and make the other one worse than it should be, but this is just my speculation rather than medical opinion or fact.
And I'm sure that won't make sense to a lot of people!
BW
WOW BW - That's great progress though...like...makes sense! My FS has me lined up with prednisolone, antibiotics and the usual supports but I have been wondering about the metfor...I might ask to take it too...taking everything else...why not hey!? Got to get the courage up to start first...and AF arriving would be a huge help..I'm CD 40 something...so premenstral could KILL someone!@?! Where's Lou these days?
BW...
It makes total sense...just doesnt make sense that it has to happen to you.....everything is just not fare....
Do you have PCOS, Ellie? If you do, then I'd really strongly suggest that you do get metformin as well. I can totally understand the scared to start thing... I'm still utterly terrified of this FET coming up. In many ways I'm not sure which is the more scary prospect - it working or not working.
BW
you have been busy in here this morning. it is so interesting to hear your perspectives. when i first heard the statement/fact on the radio a couple of wks ago i was shocked. it wasn't something i had ever quantified for myself- just dealt with and gone on with my life - additional stress included. i had a short episode of cancer (malignant melanoma) a few years back but it was dealt with quickly and i had a good outcome so for me the stress was abrupt (unlike infertility which builds over time) and they had treatment for me and my prognosis and treatment was always very good (not so with my infertility). i also didn't know much about it and by the time i did i was on the recovering safe side. this was my experience and i know i was very lucky and didn't have ongoing suffering like many cancer suffers.
it is a fact that a lot of people do experience great anxiety and stress with infertility, and i believe there is a perception in the wider community that IVF will solve infertility issues for most people. ellie is spot on - it is hard to live within this spotlight while society in my opinion really doesn't want to hear too much about your experiences with infertility. infertility is seen as a personal journey - behind closed doors, dealing with cancer is i think more out in the open with people willing to wanting to understand. but hey this is my perception.
i was the open advocate like many of you, but now after several attempts i am tired and don't want to talk about it with fertile people (everyone i know). but the best thing for me is i don't feel i have to talk about it with fertile people (gosh this is sounding like an us and them) as i can come in here and know that there is a level of understand and empathy i cld never have imagined existing before.
TL best of luck with your scan hun
BW i was chatting with my GP today about my asthma which is aggravated ATM and i was adament i didn't want to consider having prednisolone prescribed in the lead up to a cycle. what don't i know about it and TTC with IVF/FET?
ellie i agree re the respect in BB and here, i find it invigorating to hear perspectives and learn and grow so much more with it. come on AF!
carla your colleague lacks many decent human qualities :rolleyes:
rols, what is wrong with yr back (sorry may have missed this along the way).
dusty
Dusty, you definitely bring an interesting perspective to the board, given you've experienced both sides of the coin.
My back is just stupid. Never realy had any problems with it, occasionally the very lower part of my spinal area aches a bit if I go crazy in the garden, but last weekend I aggravated it (in the garden) and it hung around much longer than usual - ie. the next day it's usually fine. So it was there all week and yesterday I went to lift DW's mountain bike into the ute and bang. Haven't been able to walk, sit or lie properly since. Yesterday afternoon I got up from laying down and ended up on my knees coz I couldn't stand. It'll blow over, but it's bloody annoying.
Carla, I guess what works for you may not work for someone else. I understand and respect that for some people, being totally open about the whole experience workds best. But for me, the thought of many people knowing horrifies me, just because I can't stand the expectations and the questions and the constant reminders. Plus, I cannot stand pity and that's what people do. Hardly anyone I know offers a brighter perspective on things - it's always "oh that's terrible", or "you poor thing". It's not terrible, it just needs to be dealt with.
That said, good friends of ours - the only ones to not react in some greek tragedy manner - reacted so well because they'd already got to know about IVF through a colleague who is totally open about it al. So there is definitely some merit to that argument as well, no doubt about it. Basically, I just don't wanna be the one.