Long Term TTC & Assisted Conception - Oct 2007

**Baby Bliss** · October 12th, 2007, 07:19 AM

Dusty, just wanted to agree on that song. its brilliant. We also went to their concert after friends gave us some tickets and it was the best I have seen live. Love the chicks!!!

BW is the research about infertility being worse than cancer by Domar, Zuttmeister and Friedman? I was really intrigued by it. Infertility was compared to cancer, HIV, chronic pain, hypertension and cardiac rehab patients and the results were that infertility was equiv. or worse in terms of symptom, anxiety and depression. Not at all surprising I thought, but so wonderful to have recognised.

**tiggerlinda** · October 12th, 2007, 07:39 AM

Dusty I loved this song before I knew what it was about thanks for that!

Carla - Test when it feels right for you - My sister tested everyday though her IVF to see how she was going me on the other hand trys to wait and then caves on day 7 or 8 after transfer if it feels right do it!

Well Ladies off for my scan at 12 today to see how the folliles are growing! Had my clairvoyant do a reading yesterday which is in my blog and she say there a 2 baby sprirts waiting for us. Excited can't sit still LOL

**butterfly_warrior** · October 12th, 2007, 08:08 AM

Baby Bliss, it was Dusty that mentioned the research, I just went off on a little rant about it. Just as a little example, there is a teacher at my school who has been diagnosed with cancer. We are both out pretty frequently with appointments and stuff, when this other teacher is out, nobody complains about having to pick up extra classes. When I'm out, because I tell very few people at work what's going on, I return to grumbles and complaints from the people who have had to cover my classes. If I miss deadlines, I cop it. The other person, everyone makes allowances and is accepting. Now, I know that cancer treatments leave you a lot sicker than the side effects of fertility meds, but there is a very big difference in the way the two situations are perceived. In both cases there's a huge amount of time taken up with appointments and procedures, there's a huge emotional toll as well - but there's a huge difference in which one it is "appropriate" to talk about, and a huge difference in the support from colleagues that is offered.

Now that ovulation has passed and I'm in the wait for transfer, the anxiety has diminished considerably. I'm no longer climbing the walls, but I guess I'm stuck in frustrated-mode, hence my little rants. I'll be over it soon enough.

TL, good luck with the scan, I hope you get good results.

everyone. I've been a bit stressed out and pre-occupied lately, I'm aiming to catch up and get a bit more involved in this thread again now that my killer pre-O anxiety has passed. Probably the one thing I hate most about all of this...

BW

slyder · October 12th, 2007, 08:17 AM

Well hi to everyone. Because for some reason this thread isn't on my subscribe list I actually forgot about it (oops!), so I've just caught up on where everyone is at. I can't sit here for long as my back is rooted so I'm not going to try personals at the moment, but good luck to everyone as I can see many of you are at important stages.

Sparkles, thanks for stopping by, I was hoping everything was going OK with your surprise pregnancy. Transfer for us is a bit over a week away assuming all goes well. Haven't given it a lot of thought thus far, and we're not sure at the moment if the FS is going to advise putting one or two back. Apart from that life continues as normal!

Re the cancer vs IVF thing, I don't agree with this at all. Without a doubt IVF is very difficult for those going through it to varying degrees based on the number of cycles, the success rate and the personalities of those involved, but at least IVF patients don't have the constant fear of death, the treatments which far and away are worse than what IVF dishes out, and the ongoing ramifications for the rest of their life (assuming they live) arising from the damage treatment causes.

I do appreciate the covert nature (by choice) of IVF leads to a feeling of isolation and separation from the community at large I guess, but I'd choose that any day over the fear of death and leaving DW, my family and my friends behind; not being able to move or eat through extreme illness; having a permanent channel inserted into my chest for drug administration; having small tattoos on my body so the radiotherapy can be administered at exact points; and maybe living without a lung, bowel, kidney or limb. That list doesn't even really begin to cover it. The worst that can happen from failed IVF is that you don't end up with biological kids (and no-one's saying that's easy to take). The worst that can happen from failed cancer treatment is that you die.

I'm not agro or anything about this (just thought I'd clarify as you can't transmit tone of the net!) but I 100% don't agree with that comparison as the two things are in different universes.

slyder · October 12th, 2007, 08:25 AM

BW, I can definitely understand why the example you raised is stressful, and I'd feel exactly the same. But deciding to tell people about IVF treatment or cancer treatment is a choice. There's no rule to say you can't tell people about it and help them to understand (not that I've told anyone apart from the eseentials at my work mind you, same for DW). Whilst that example is understandable and a cause of stress, I still don't see it as being in the same league as cancer in any way. Of course, other people may disagree.

**Baby Bliss** · October 12th, 2007, 08:30 AM

Rols, I see what you are saying and I don't think the diseases are comparable in that sense. I think in terms of how each person experiences their disease independent of anything else, the sensations felt are intense to the same level... even though obviously, if you had a choice, you would choose the non life threatening option. Am I making sense? Or is this totally irrelevant to your point? (Probably!)

BW - I am really passionate about that. The level of awareness and acceptance of infertility and its impact is dreadful. I have been really honest all throughout my infertility journey, about all the thoughts and feelings I have - the good, the bad, and the ugly and downright shocking. Its not as though I want to experience these things, but they are real and valid. The number of people I have had say thank you, i thought it was just me and I wondered what the hell was wrong with me... Makes me even more determined to somehow play a part in creating more awareness and more education, somehow. Anyhow.

**butterfly_warrior** · October 12th, 2007, 08:41 AM

Rols, point taken. I guess I'm just in a bit of a cranky mood about it all. I guess I also have a greater fear of being childless than I do of dying or losing loved ones, but I'm a bit strange like that.

BB, I was the same once. I was very open with friends and family about what infertility was and the way if effected us. I was on a one-woman mission to change the world's ideas about infertility, and I was going to make sure everyone understood what it was like to be on my side of the fence... But pregnancy and the miscarriage changed all that. So many people knew when my transfer was, knew when the blood test was, knew that I was pregnant from the day dot... and as a result, my miscarriage was very public and "out there". I've since retired from my "infertility advocacy", I just don't have the emotional energy for it now, and need to do things quietly, in a much more closed circle of support... I am glad to know that I'm not the only one who feels the way I did about it all.

BW

slyder · October 12th, 2007, 08:50 AM

BB and BW, I get your points and I think we are just coming at it from different angles. I am just taking my typically technical and pragmatic view of everything. I'm a bit black and white. But, actual treatment and end result aside, I can see the correlation to a point.

BW, your retirement from "infertility advocacy" (

) is very understandable. I couldn't stand if everyone knew about us, and as it is way more people know than I think need to. I wouldn't have even told my parents if I didn't have to find out the cause of their infertility. It's a double edged sword - having wide spread support is helpful, but everyones expectations weigh a ton, and for me that's the stuff I find harder to deal with.

I've just realised, all this sitting down at the computer isn't actually that hard on my back. Cool.

**Carla MP** · October 12th, 2007, 10:09 AM

I disagree.....the more people that know the better. Why would you not want the people around you not knowing. Support with this is a must. I couldnt imagine not telling my parents or family and friends about this. Having their support is what has got my DH and I through this difficult experience.

**Ellie** · October 12th, 2007, 10:23 AM

Hi everyone...have been lurking!

BW - I totally understand your position and need for privacy. I've found over that past 8 years that I have gone through times when I want the world to know and times when I have even lied to keep everything just between DH and myself. At this point in time I'm not talking about it at all. I'm tired of educating everyone and dealing with their lack of understanding. The media has done us an injustice in presenting IVF as this 'WOW chuck an egg and sperm together and VOILA a baby!!!' Annoys me no end. I think it's really important to respect the place each person finds themself at...it's a long road with so many ups and downs.

Rols - Really interested in the cancer discussion. A few weeks ago I probably would have said IVF is the worst thing in the world...but since the scare with the mole thing my whole perspective has changed. For me, there are now much worse things than not having a baby...the thought of leaving DH and my family and the effect that would have had on their lives...don't even want to think about it.

I love that everyone is so respectful of others opinions in this thread...you are such an awesome bunch...without you guys I wouldn't be as together as I am today...you are the best xxx

**butterfly_warrior** · October 12th, 2007, 10:25 AM

Carla, to some extent you are right. But, when you find yourself constantly beating your head against a brick wall trying to make someone understand this... and keep getting the insensitive, stupid comments time after time, it does get wearing. I come from a very fertile family (more trouble staying not pregnant than actually getting pregnant), and lot of them lack empathy. In the end it was just hurting me to be trying to make them understand.

There's also the element of phone calls on blood test day to check how things go. Phone calls from people asking "where are you at in your cycle?" There's enough pressure from yourselves on each cycle without getting it externally as well. But it was something I did, to help others understand. I don't regret it, but I just can't do it anymore. Especially when we were in the position of having to tell a lot of people about the miscarriage, not something I ever want to experience again. Knowing that there are factors that mean another miscarriage is more likely (despite all the medications I can take to help prevent it), means I really do want to go through this next cycle more quietly. Sure, the close circle of support is still there, but it's not being broadcast to the world this time.

I'm not saying it's wrong to do this either way. Some people are intensely private, while others are much more open. I've switched from on to the other, and that's ok. It's about doing what you need to do in order to get through it all with a shred of sanity intact in the end.

BW

**Ellie** · October 12th, 2007, 10:29 AM

BW - What i HATE more than anything is when there is something on the TV about 'Infertility' and everyone phones you to tell you about it...like they think they are the only one's with this 'new knowledge' and my FS probably doesn't know about it yet...after a few phone calls I get a bit SHORT!@?!

**Carla MP** · October 12th, 2007, 10:37 AM

BW - I know what you are saying but I also know I couldnt have done half of this without the support of the people I have told......Oh but I must say...some people are horrible and insensitive as you say...get this everyone...I work with the worlds biggest biatch......when my first IVF cycle was cancelled due to my follies not growing.....she said...quote: Well Im glad its cancelled this time as now I dont need to train anyone so soon!!!!! YER its people like that that you could just smash in the face when you are going through something like this!!!!

**Baby Bliss** · October 12th, 2007, 10:38 AM

BW - and again, I agree. But you know, I think that in doing it quietly, its simply another version of advocacy. You choose a different target. You show others that you need to do it in the way that suits you best, and enables you to cope and others need to fit into that, because that is how it has to be for you. The loud and proud version is incredibly difficult at times, because you DO cop that ignorance, and there are times where arguing a point to educate has sent me to a pit of despair I didn't need to end up in. I wish it were all very different.

**butterfly_warrior** · October 12th, 2007, 10:41 AM

Yep, Ellie. Had that, too. I know they mean well, but when you get told "there's a show on infertility/IVF, you really should see it"... and then watch it, and it's full of false hope and scaremongering about the impacts of fertility treatment on the children conceived with it... We've even had "you shouldn't be doing this because your children will also be infertile!"... I like to remind them of the fact that your parents' fertility is not necessarily and indication of your own. Both DH and I come from extremely fertile families, and that trait obviously wasn't inherited by either of us

. Also, the world's first IVF baby conceived her own children naturally... there's no guarantees in this!

Weird how I woke up happy and relaxed today, but I've certainly got my cranky pants on now. I think the increased prednisone dosage is starting to impact on my mood! Still happy and relaxed, but I think sometimes we all need a bit of a communal rant and vent to blow off steam.

BW