LT Trying to Conceive with IUI #5

[Bengal]

Kittycat : I am surprised your f/clinic, hasnt advised you that it is best to abstain from BD, for two days before IUI or IVF. You would be better to wait until after tommorows IUI, IMO, and when you get home, bd to your hearts content, that was our advice. I was worried that when I had the IUI they would know (ifnwim) that we had dtd, beforehand. My FS recommended to BD the night of, and the morning after IUI .. GL for tommorow

[kittycat27]

thanks wouldloveabubba,
i think my clinic just expect me to know by now. this is my 6th iui, as i had 4 in 2007 and i last month. the one i had last month was a spare of the moment, and was only orgainsed that morning. i have read a bit about the subject, but the us sites seem to be very different from us.

but i will be doing as you said and waiting until tomorrow night!!!!
thanks

[Olin]

Thanks alot Loops12..

Im having a break now.. will continue the next treatment end of May.
how about you?

xx

[OriginalP]

Hey Kittykat,

Re the BDing, I guess it's tricky when you're IUIing with your partner's sperm. In our case we used a donor. Never the less, we BDd every second day from day 14 through to the day of the IUI (Day 19) even though DH's sample quality is shockingly poor. We just needed to feel like we'd covered all bases.

For you guys, lets say IUI takes place on Day 16 - kick off on day 12, go again Day 14, produce a sample for IUI day 16, and BD one more time on day 18. You do this because the guys live for 48 hours. However, the egg is only live for 12 hours. You can't know exactly when that is, so as long as you've got some guys in there for the 4-day most fertile period, all your bases will be covered.

To help know when you ovulated, monitor day of AF start carefully. If AF starts full flow before midday, that's day one. If it's after midday, the next day is day one. Count back 14 days from Day 1 - that will have been ovulation day. You can cross check even further by monitoring muscus. That day it's nice and clear and stretchy, that's ovulation day.

Of course, if you have other influencing factors like PCOS or endometriosis, things might not be as easy to monitor as this. Some people have 40 day cycles, which make things very tricky. But this is a good place to start.

:-)
OP.

[OriginalP]

For those folks who can't get or don't want artificial luteal support, try these two supplements:

Blackmores Vitex. It's based on Vitus Castus, which has an immediate and profound effect on hormone levels. A naturopath might give it to you in liquid form and this will be more potent. But the Blackmore's tablets are fine to use, and they only cost about $12.00.

Blackmores B6. The key b-group vitamin that supports the luteal phase. You need a luteal phase of 11-14 days for the endometrium to thicken up enough for implantation. B6 will help this. It will also help with PMS, and it's very good for people with PCOS (as is Vitex). I read that people taking B6 (without any obvious fertility problems) were pregnant within three months of starting B6. This was also the case for me.

Cheers,
OP.

[Bengal]

Hey Kittykat,

For you guys, lets say IUI takes place on Day 16 - kick off on day 12, go again Day 14, produce a sample for IUI day 16, and BD one more time on day 18. You do this because the guys live for 48 hours. However, the egg is only live for 12 hours. You can't know exactly when that is, so as long as you've got some guys in there for the 4-day most fertile period, all your bases will be covered.


:-)
OP.

OP: Lovely to have a chat, I havent spoken to you in a while

OP: I would be BDing every day, three times a day, if I could however, in real life, twice a day around another IUI, I know the sperm lives for a couple of days, but if your hubby has a good sperm count, wouldn't you want to DTD as often as possible.What if you missed that 12 hour window when the egg is realised, b/c you thought there is enough sperm in the cervix, waiting around. If I had an IUI today, there is no way, I could wait two days until we did it again.

Just tossing different opinions around

[OriginalP]

LOL WLAB!!!!

Man if you feel like it, go for your life!!!

But seriously, you apparently need 48 hours to replish supplies, get the numbers up etc. I know how it feels around ovulation - you can convince yourself that not going for it is costing you somewhere, somehow. But all those scientists and naturopaths can't be wrong on this point - it's one of the few things they all agree on!!! You need a two day break between shots to get the good guys in good numbers.

Hey don't forget another important point - each 2ml of semen should have about 20 million guys in it. You only need 1 to penetrate the egg.

:-)
OP.

[Mummawannabe]

Hey,
Just wanted to pop in and say keep up all the hard work ladies! Fingers crossed for everyone of you!

[kittycat27]

hi guys,
this has been a very informative discussion!
i ended up having a pregnyl shot on cd10, then the iui on cd12.
my cycle is always short eg 23-26 days.
i am doing a day21 prog test this month, but i am also on some support from my
acu lady as she specialises in ivf/fertility.
however i am going to get some b6 today. i am taking a heap of tablets
but think that i more can't hurt.

mummawannabe- i have just used letrozole for the second month. GL with your search for a new FS.
originalP- thanks for all the great advise with BDing!! we did hold off for a few days before the iui and BD that night and then the next.

bye

[OriginalP]

Ok Kittycat! That "Day 21" test needs to be 7 days after IUI. "Day 21" refers only to a normal 28 day cycle. In fertility treatment land its the 7th day after IUI.

Good luck! And let me know how you go - I like stats!

:-)
OP.

[kittycat27]

thanks for that originalP,
i am contacting FS tomorrow about the date of progesterone test.
i don't understand why i have to find out these important things from others and not him.
he only did it because i asked.
i sometimes wish i had a choice of fs.
thanks again....

[OriginalP]

Kittycat, I wish you had a choice too. But look at it as a chance to learn more about yourself. Because being master of your own destiny on this journey goes a long way towards helping with the upsets that invariably come up.

And you'll be in a much better postion to teach your daughters about their bodies when the time comes.

I wrote you a load of information on progesterone levels in a private message last week, then BB promptly crashed on me. Here's some reference numbers to help you understand the results:

Normal Progesterone Values
female (pre-ovulation): less than 1 ng/mL
female (mid-cycle): 5 to 35 ng/mL
male: less than 1 ng/mL
postmenopausal: less than 1 ng/mL
1st trimester: 11.2-90.0 ng/mL
2nd trimester: 25.6-89.4 ng/mL
3rd trimester: 48.4-42.5 ng/mL
Note: ng/mL = nanograms per milliliter

Special note: Day 21 Prog reading in bold however, this score will go up by about 20 points per follicle that has ovulated. So you might see 56 if two follicles popped an egg, 75 if three popped. I always think a good Day 21 prog level is an positive indication, however, luteal support such as pregnyl can cause progesterone to be artificially elevated, which can get your hopes up for no reason. And nobody wants that.

Cheers,
OP.

[kittycat27]

thanks for all your help originalP,
i spoke to my FS nurse yesterday and she said that i have the 21 day test to comfirm ovulation. even though i had follicles, a good thick lining and pregnyl shot i still could of had empty fluid filled follicles???!!!
she said that the follicles will erupt and if the egg is fertilised then naturally they will prduce enough progesterone for pregnancy.
i am confident that i ovulated as i check my mucus (sorry TMI !) but i hope that my body does produce enough progesterone on it's own!
where's my confidence??
i have no signs this month so far. which is good as i had non when pregnant in 2004!
thanks

[OriginalP]

Sheeeeezzzzz!!!! Honestly, some people in the fertility business have got the most appalling bedside manner. Here we all are paying thousands of dollars for treatment and they come out with comments like "you could have had an empty follicle sack".

My advice to you is to wipe your memory of that most unhelpful and unsupportive advice. Here is a check list to confirm ovulation:

1. Pulling type sensations in the pelvic region (where the ovaries are)
2. Good clear, stringy mucus.
3. Basal body temp of around 36.2
4. Day 21 prog test of around 25-40.
5. Onset of AF 14 days after the appearance of that good, clear mucus (like to also be 14 days after your trigger injection).

I know people can have empty follicles - a friend went all the way thru ocyte collection in IVF to produce no eggs. But it's a RARE occurence. I don't want anyone here putting it on their list of worries.

:-)
OP.

PS - the corpus luteum on the follicle is where the progesterone and the hCG are coming from. On an ultra sound you can actually see the blood flow on the edges where the follicle popped.

[chellie88]

Hi, im new to this and have been ttc since nov 07, so thought sharing mite help the heartbreak. I do have a healthy 5 yr old son but now have POCS and I'm currently on treatment through the IVF centre. We were doing ovulation induction because my partners sperm is very healthy. This time we decided to do IUI. I'm a little confused though coz they did the IUI on the same day that they gave me a trigger injection. Shouldnt it be on the day that i actually ovulate??? Sorry it so long , any info would be appreciated.

[kittycat27]

geeeeezzzz OriginalP you are sooooo smart.
you would think after 3 years i would have some idea of what was going on in my body and the fertility world.
i have been told my FS is "conservitive" and the nurse, who was very helpful, said we are limited up in Cairns. all the blood tests for Lh and estrogen get sent to QFG in Brisbane so it is not much use doing them.
i have been seeing a great IVF acupuncture lady, and she has encouraged me to get onto FS more about questions and procedures. he does not believe in any alternative therapies or the effect of acupuncture on fertility.
i don't chart my temp (which is very naughty) but if i get a BFN this time i will start.
however did get the clear mucus but no ovary pains.
i will just have to wait and see how the next week goes, and the result of the prog test.
thanks for your advice and help.

michelle

[OriginalP]

Hi chellie and welcome!

IUI on the same day as trigger is a new trick - but FSs have many tricks which we all get to hear about on this thread. I'd ask some questions - like whether they though follicle size plus hormone levels indicated the follicle was on the verge of popping that day.

But in most our experience, IUI happens 24 hours after trigger.

:-)
OP.

[OriginalP]

Kittycat - be very careful about telling your FS about your natural therapies. My experience with most doctors is they simply think it's quakery. If you ask me, fertility medicine is the ultimate in quackery. I'm not convince they know half as much as they think.

We learned very quickly not to tell any of our doctors about the naturopathy we did. The midwives that handled our IUI treatment were receptive. But we listened to our doctors carry on about Francesca Naish and the Jocelyn Centre being a waste of time, and we just blocked our ears.

In this game, playing your cards close to your chest is most advisable. That way the little things you do to help you feel better never get trampled on.

Cheers,
OP.