TTC with Thyroid Issues

[paradise lost]

Hey ladies!

Mummawannabe as i understand it the normal TSH of a healthy (non-hypothyroid) woman in the first trimester is about 0.9, and for a hypothyroid woman it's 1.6. ATM there haven't been enough studies done to find out if the TSH has DROPPED due to the pregnancy, or if it is usually lower in these women (unbelieveable i know, but unfortunately more elderly women suffer from hypothyroidism and it's possible that the large-scale studies they HAVE done have been substantially skewed by their relatively higher TSH, which is more common post-menopause...). The Endocrine Society (i printed their PDF) recommend that TSH in women of child-bearing age is kept under 2.5 mainly because from there a 50% doseage adjustment would be sufficient to help keep the woman euthyroid during her pregnancy, whereas if she had TSH of 5, even if the pregnancy was being maintained, it might take a 100% doseage increase to keep her bloods normal-for-pregnancy and she may well suffer from hyperthyroid symptoms from such a massive dose increase.

Anyway, back to me... My GP just called, i've never actually met him, i'm new to his practice, but he's the most senior doctor. He's irish and was very friendly. He told me i was not easy to talk to (in a friendly way, as in "you are challenging me here!") and asked if i was a teacher. LOL! Anyway, he said he is perfectly happy with my bloods in terms of ttc, and that he would have them re-checked when i have the Mirena removed, and has upped me from 50mcgm/day to 75mcgm/day to help with the creeping weight and dead legs. So for now i'm happy And i would expect, since my TSH was 2.76, that even that small increase would get me under 2.5 as per endocrine society guidelines.

Bx

[onthefly]

Hi
I'm not actually TTC yet, but hope you ladies don't mind me joining in.
I had my thyroid removed nearly two years ago and now technically hypothyroid.
Re levels - the 'normal' ranges are so wide, and hormones so individual, I just 'experiment' to see where I feel better (but watching the blood test results to avoid going to high or low). Even different path labs here have different reference ranges which is a nuisance.

Hoobly - you said your sister has PCOS as well, do you? Even hyper (and I mean undetectable TSH) I gained weight when off the pill, but lost it when on it... all down to PCOS I think.

[Sequoia]

Hey girls, I'll join you too.

I've been diagnosed with postpartum thyroiditis and have an underactive thyroid ATM (sorry, is that hyper or hypo?)

I have repeat bloods in 3 weeks to see whether I'm to go on thyroxine since we are hoping to TTC#2 this year.

Question - did anyone lose weight when they went on thyroxine?

[paradise lost]

Hey marcellus! I'm not actually ttc yet either, just trying to get myself in the best possible health for it WELCOME! My sister has PCOS but she also has Endo and is perimenopausal just now. I'll ask her about the Pill as a possibility. I think she's not allowed it because she is medicated for her high BP and is at increased risk of thrombosis and stroke due to inactivity (due to her weight) and her BP. THanks for the tip though!

Hi Shoegal! Welcome! Underactive is hypo (think hypothermia - not warm enough). Some people do lose weight when they commence thyroxine but usually weight gain due purely to the thyroid is modest (5-10kg at most). The main problem with the hypoactive thyroid is that you feel so lacking in energy you tend to DO less. So while it is true that i lost weight when medicated, i would put it down to the fact that i could run more often, for longer, and faster once i was medicated. And if i overeat, medication or not, i gain weight!

Bx

[jen805]

hoobley--Tried finding that 1994 study everywhere! Even went thru the archives for '94 for the Journal of Clinical Endocrinology and Metabolism--there's just like 500 pages to go thru for that year!! So, unfortunately, didn't have the time or the energy to go thru 500 pages--I'm sorry! I hope you are able to get your questions answered--keep us posted!



Mummawannabe--Thanks for all the links!



marcellus & Shoegal-- and

[onthefly]

Yes - thanks for those links. I'm going to take a look one day when I have time.... I did heaps of research a couple of years ago, but didn't keep track of it all.

I'm planning to steer clear of the pill cause it just means having to muck around with my thyroxine doseage again. I gain weight when I'm hyper cause I eat like a maniac. Tend to eat less when hypo so doesn't tend to have the same effect. Do little exercise either way cause so busy with work and now too sleep deprived...

The TSH at 1-2 sounds right to me too - think I must have read something somewhere.... Mine's generally <1 as on suppression therapy to prevent regrowth of thyroid tissue.

Here's a general question - how do you know that your T4 levels are off? Do you have particular tell-tale signs to suggest you're too high or too low?

[paradise lost]

Here's a general question - how do you know that your T4 levels are off? Do you have particular tell-tale signs to suggest you're too high or too low?

Yes and no. I know when i'm going more hypo because when i run my legs are "dead" and i feel like it's the end of the run at the start. Also i feel more tired and like i'm never fully "alert" or "awake" - like i'm sleep deprived even when i'm not. My eyes get a bit puffy and my hair begins to thin slightly at my temples (first place it goes on me). My weight creeps up (but by a kg or 2, nothing dramatic).

BUT me feeling that way doesn't necessarily mean my fT4 will show up low on a BT. As you know, it can take a month for TSH levels to change in response to T4 dose adjustment, and it can take up to 3 months for the levels to be stable enough to know if the new dose is doing the job. I tend to feel illest around January and July, and i assume that this is when my Hashi's is most active due possibly to other viruses around at those times which activate the autoimmune response.

Bx

[Samandpoppy]

Hi Girls,
Welcome every body. Boy am I impressed with the info you know. So great.

Couple of things I have found out recently:
- One aquaintance of mine said that when he starts to get a cold he takes an extra thyroid tablet and that gets rid of it. I'll try this once I'm over the TTC!
- Also was talking to FS today who is has a PHD in immunology (big brain), who said that the level of thyroid antibodies isn't related to the dose of Thyroxine, I had assumed it was.

Anyway, anyway, sorry this is so long!!

Hi Marcellus - Welcome, welcome. I didn't know thyroid tissue could regrow. Re T4, and also I have read that for younger women, eg childbearing, better to be in the top end of the range for free T4. I can think clearly and remember numbers again when I am good, if that helps. Also more resilient emotionally.

Shoegal - re weight, it may help a bit, but not a lot. Being in balance certainly helps me mentally to be able to eat better, slow down and not overeat as much, and also phsically to have the energy to exercise, or even begin to think about it.

Hoobley - yeahhhh, so pleased you found a doc who is doing what you want. Will be interested to hear how you feel in a couple of weeks. Very interesting about "50% doseage adjustment...to keep the woman euthyroid during her pregnancy" makes sense to me. Re about how you feel in seasons etc, I feel terrible after Xmas usually (do too much, stress to much, exhausted) but much better in warm weather, like right now in melb, and totally shocking when cold, eg winter, or with a cold, eg hypo as in hypochondriac!

Jen - Hey Hi! I l just worked out how to add a smilie!! so exciting. Anyway, what a journey. I would love to lose the 12 pounds, but you probably felt pretty crappy. hope you are feeling good now. Yeah my endo says TSH around 1 too.

Mannie - hi, and nice to "see" you here. hope you had a good time in Bris. It is a hard slog with the weight, good on hubby for doing it too. you'll get there. I am trying to consciously slow myself down as DD does exactly what I do and wolfs it. Its an ongoing project! I even went to a hypnotist to see if that could help (gave me some things to practice). Was really, really, really good for grief though.

MummaW - Hey! I think Hoobley answered the ? about levels during pregnancy. Seems that consistency is so important. let us know how you go with the BT

Wouldloveabub - how are you going with the graves? Is it difficult to manage?

Wanted to say Hi to everyone, sorry if I have missed you!

AFM - I feel so much better in myself since upping the dose, and even though a BFN today, am not so bad and just getting on with it.

[Mummawannabe]

So who can share there info on Thyroid antibodies and possible treatment?

My peroxidase antibodies have been consistantly over 1000, and it seems like what you've discovered S&P, that it is despite whatever my TSH is at the time.

I have an awesome book - 'Your thyroid problems solved' by Dr Sandra Cabot which explains that selenium is essential to reduce the level of autoantibodies and it shows a case study with a patient having Anti-microsomal antibodies (peroxidase) of 1200 reduced to 350 after 3 mths of taking selenium. This book recommends 100mg of selenium daily and mentions that Australia is a selenium deficent country and explains that how everything we eat ie. animal and vegetable has been grown from and eat product from Australian soils which are deficent - explaining why the thryroid gland is not getting enough selenium.

Interested to know if anyone lurking has been treated with selenium and had a reduction in antibodies and a subsequent successful pregnancy, or if you have been treated in another way........(I have heard of aspirin treatment and know of the IGIV(?) if your found to have NK cells.)

On a more light hearted note:
My thyroid sucks! White T-Shirt - CafePress - maybe we could do a bulk order! lol

[jen805]

Mummawannabe--I like the t-shirt! Wish I could help you with your thyroid antibodies question... I just don't understand any of it! I did start taking a baby aspirin daily after my m/c, but only because my dr. mentioned that it may help in sustaining a pg'cy.... but never heard of it being used in anything thyroid-related... but then again, I've only just started researching the thyroid, and never even knew that it could affect TTC! I was a kid when I had my radiation, and never really understood what was going on with my thyroid and treatment--I just did what they told me to do--everything they over told me was just a bunch of mumbo-jumbo dr. talk that I could never understand! I had my BT done on Friday, so should hopefully find out on Monday how they turned out. Still very shaky--I hate it--it feels like my body's vibrating or "buzzing" all day long! Although I can definitely tell a difference a while after I take my pill.... yesterday I took a second pill about 8 hours after the first one because I started trembling again. I won't be surprised to find that my levels are too high, so I'm going to increase my meds on my own from 100mcg to 150mcg and see if that helps. Will keep you girls posted on how things turn out!

Samandpoppy--Sorry things didn't turn out as you'd hoped for this month! Keeping you in my thoughts and and best of luck with this next cycle! Oh, and p.s.--Aren't the smilies fun? lol... I was SO excited when I learned how to use them--you would've thought I won the lottery or something!

[Samandpoppy]

Hi MummaW
about reducing ATAs, I don't think the baby asprin has anything to do with it, that is used to thin your blood a little to help the embryo grow (littleblood clots can block blood flow to embryo, so the asprin thins the blood to help prevent the blood clots, I think)
My np recommends selenium 100 and I take it as a liquid form which i get from her. You can now get a high dose Blackmores Selenium tablet from chemist, you have to take 2. I also take reishi and shi!take mushroom tablets from her for the ATAs, but after the first month I didn't see a difference in my ATAs. May be not long enough so I am continuing, but maybe mine are low enough now, at around 40 and 20.
My ATAs dropped when my TSH got to about the right level, around 1. I wasn't consistently taking the selenium, so I think it was the Thyroxine. Woud concentrate on that first.
From what I have read, and been told by endo, the ATA's don't affect fertility if your thyryoid is appropriately treated. (I thought they did, was looking for a reason, but now don't)

Jen - if you are "buzzing" you are probably taking too much Thyroxine, rather than too little. You may have to decrease the dose, not increase it

It is a yukky feeling, I have taken an extra one thinking it would help me lose weight (it didn't work) and had that feeling, and couldn't sleep, took me a while to figure out what it was!

thanks for kind message, :smile: I am back on horse, starting an antagonist IVF cycle this week.

[Samandpoppy]

Also, I asked my FS about IVIG, and it isn't sanctioned for use for connception/IVF in Aus, as it is a "very precious resource" and he wouldn't be allowed to prescribe it here.

I am coming around to thinking that the main problem for me is the egg/ embryo quality. bum.

[onthefly]

Good luck with your next cycle Samandpoppy!

Don't know anything about antibodies, sorry... I do recall reading something somewehre about aspirin and thyroid... but really can't remember anything.

selenium, huh. Is that still helpful if you don't actually have a thyroid?

There's always a chance of a few leftover cells that will be stimulated by high TSH levels, that's why I'm on suppression therapy (ie, keeping TSH very low).

Jen are you taking meds to reduce thyroid function?

[jen805]

Hi ladies! Still no news on my thyroid test... hopefully today. I called yesterday, but of course, my dr. is on vacation all week! So I spoke to the on-call nurse, and she's supposed to get back to me as soon as they get the results. I had asked on Fri. how long it would take to get the results back, and they thought it would be back by the end of that day. Now here it is, Tues. morning, and I'm still waiting... and buzzing!

Samandpoppy--I think it's actually the exact opposite... my meds actually help the buzzing and trembling stop! Let me explain like this: my DS1 is on meds for ADD, which help slow his brain down so that he can concentrate. He's not hyperactive, but the meds definitely calm him down and make him more relaxed so he can think more clearly. However, if I take the same meds, I get the exact opposite reaction--it wires me up, making me feel like I'm all tweaked out! It helps me to think more clearly, but it would feel like I'm on some sort of energy pill or something. I've been on the same dose for years, and this is the first time I've felt like this since before I had my radiation. The thing was, as a kid, I didn't realize how unusual a feeling it was.... now, as an adult that's been taking Synthroid for 17 years, I can definitely tell the difference between feeling "normal" and the way I feel right now! If I hadn't stopped taking my meds and I started feeling this way, I would definitely think that maybe my meds were too high... but unfortunately I did this to myself. If the 'normal' levels have changed, and my thyroid is still technically too high to sustain a pg'cy, then you're right, the dose would have to be decreased, as opposed to increased... but for now I'm just trying to get back to that 'normal' feeling!

marcellus--I don't know if that answers your question or not... I think, ( I know that I should know this!) if I understand correctly, that because of the radiation my body won't produce the thyroid hormone, so I have to take Synthroid daily to replace what my body would normally produce. I think! I really should know more about this stuff, but like I said, I was only a kid when all this happened, and I've literally been on the same dose since, with the exception of when I was pg with DS1, and my body miraculously started producing the hormone again on its own. I've never had the need to know much more than that! Until, that is, I read up that they changed what's considered normal. We've been TTC since summer of '07.... I m/c on Mar. 5 2008, (the day before my b-day ) and have been TTC ever since.... I have normal periods, I ovulate, my BT's after my m/c came back normal, we DTD at the right time--I've gotten "high" conception scores for the last several months... it should be happening, but it's not! The only thing I can think of is that it has to do with my thyroid--especially when they're saying levels should now be between 1-2 to sustain a pg'cy, and my "normal" levels are between 4-5!


I'm sorry, I feel like I'm just going around in circles... repeating myself at times... just not sure what's going on, and so tired of feeling like I'm in the dark about what's going on inside my own body! Will keep you posted on my BT's... thanks so much for all your support!

[Samandpoppy]

Hey Jen - makes sense what you say, sorry I had forgotten you were a veteran and that you had been off them for a while.

Poor thing must be so frustrating. So know the feeling of going around in circles, yes poor me too, so frustrating

I guess the best plan is what you have planned, to get TSH down, and see if that makes a difference to TTC. Hoping it brings down the ATAs for you as well.

I just liked this one, so cute

[Nixon]

Hi Girls, just a quick question.

I was told I had underactive thyroid and that it was because of anti-bodies. I will have to be on thyroxine for the rest of my life.

Is there a name for this? ie: is it different to having underactive that can be fixed?

Thanks

[jen805]

Nixon.... I'm sorry, mine is overactive, so I'm not sure about the answer to your question. Hope one of the others can help you.



Well, I'm completely confused... dr's office just called. TSH 0.58, and free T4 0.81.... she said they're normal! Why do I not feel any better? I thought I'd be getting some answers....Grrrr!!!!!

[onthefly]

Jen - do you know what the reference ranges are for that lab? Maybe ask for copies of your reports so you can see. T4 of 0.81seems incredibly low to me, but I don't know what reference range they're working off. The normal ranges are so broad too, it helps to know whether your at the top/bottom/middle and then you can self-adjust your dosage a bit and test again to see where you move on the scale and how you feel. (I would advise very modest adjustments, especially if you're on a low dose to begin with). Hormones are really tricky things! We're all going round and round in circles...

Nixon - I'm not sure there is a kind that can be fixed. most people are on medication forever as far as I know, though sometimes their status can change (ie, thyroid starts producing more or less...)