C/S or V/B after shoulder dystocia.

[Lucy]

My daughter Olivia (7lb6oz) was born naturally with shoulder distocia.

In hindsight it was a positional issue.

I then went on to have my son Charlie vaginally, and then Lexie naturally.

I was encouraged to have a CS for my son, but inisisted against it. I did end up being induced with him, which was a shame for me, but the birth was easy. I gave birth standing with him.

HTH.

I can understand your dilema.

[HotKim]

Kelly, thank you for your input. Unfortunately I 'm finding it hard locating info to help me resolve my dilemma. I have read in other posts, your comments about SD maybe being related to an inactive birth but feel confident that I was very active throughout Master4's labour and delivery. I guess my biggest problem is that there is so much conflicting info on SD that it's hard to feel like I'm making a properly informed decision. Research suggests that anywhere between 48 - 89% of SD occurs in non-macrosomic babies. Not only that 'there is evidence to suggest that delivery of a previous macrosomic baby is quite a reliable sign of pelvic adequacy to deliver a macrosomic infant. However, previous SD constiutes an apparent risk factor, despite a lcak of consistency'. The same report then goes on to say that one should avoid VD in a patient with previous SD as 'these patients carry a 7 to 16 times increased risk of repeated SD and should better avoid VD.'

Gah! It's no wonder I'm confused!!

[HotKim]

So I went to see a physio therapist today and he gave me the name of a site that has the result of actual studies into thousands of medical problems etc.

Here's what I've found,

Gurewitsch ED, Johnson TL, Allen RH.
Department of Gynecology and Obstetrics, Division of Maternal Fetal Medicine, The Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21287, USA. dgurewi@jhmi.edu

Among risk factors for shoulder dystocia, a prior history of delivery complicated by shoulder dystocia is the single greatest risk factor for shoulder dystocia occurrence, with odds ratios 7 to 10 times that of the general population. Recurrence rates have been reported to be as high as 16%. Whereas prevention of shoulder dystocia in the general population is neither feasible nor cost-effective, intervention efforts directed at the particular subgroup of women with a prior history of shoulder dystocia can concentrate on potentially modifiable risk factors and individualized management strategies that can minimize recurrence and the associated significant morbidities and mortality.

PMID: 17531900 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Ginsberg NA, Moisidis C.
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Northwestern University, Illinois, USA
...The mean fetal weights were 3885 g in the recurrent dystocia group and 3702 g in the group without recurrence (P <.03). Gestational age, operative delivery, and gestational diabetes were similar in the two groups. CONCLUSION: Factors that appear to increase the recurrence risk of shoulder dystocia include fetal weight and maternal parity. Prior shoulder dystocia is the single greatest predictive factor.
PMID: 11408863 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Lewis DF, Raymond RC, Perkins MB, Brooks GG, Heymann AR.
Department of Obstetrics and Gynecology, Louisiana State University Medical Center, Shreveport 71130-3932, USA.

OBJECTIVE: Shoulder dystocia continues to be a major complication of obstetrics, and several factors have been identified to help predict its occurrence. A previous shoulder dystocia is one of the risk factors. However, the recurrence rate is unknown. The purpose of this study is to report the recurrence rate of shoulder dystocia. STUDY DESIGN: Our obstetric database was used to identify all vaginal deliveries between January 1983 through December 1992. A subset of vaginal deliveries complicated by shoulder dystocia was selected from this database. These records were reviewed to identify subsequent pregnancies, outcomes, risk factors, and demographic data. RESULTS: During the study period there were 37,465 total vaginal deliveries, with shoulder dystocia complicating 747 (overall rate 2%). Of these 747 cases, 101 patients had 123 subsequent vaginal deliveries, with shoulder dystocia complicating 17 of these pregnancies (13.8% recurrence rate, p < 0.0001). Comparisons were made between those patients with recurrent shoulder dystocia. CONCLUSION: Shoulder dystocia recurred at a rate approximately seven times higher than our primary rate. Whether patients with a history of shoulder dystocia should be offered an elective abdominal delivery requires further investigation.

PMID: 7755040 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Awwww, not good!

[BellyBelly]

Its up to you what you want. I just have never known someone to have it twice. They are probably out there but never heard it myself.

Try the Cochrane Database, they are independent study reviewers, not biased.

[HotKim]

Its up to you what you want. I just have never known someone to have it twice. They are probably out there but never heard it myself.

Try the Cochrane Database, they are independent study reviewers, not biased.

Kelly, thank you for your response.

You're right, it is up to me. What I'd like tho' is to be sure I'm making a properly informed decision. As you can see from the info I posted, previous SD is the biggest risk factor and at this stage I have up to a 16% chance of it happening again. That's a low-ish risk, in my books, but that doesn't make me feel too good either.

I did try the Cochrane Database and they had no studies on recurrent SD. The info I posted above is from PubMed (also unbiased).

Lucy, thank you also for your input. It is so good to hear that your two children did not suffer the same as your first SD. Despite assertions that SD is a proitional issue, the studies I have looked at indicate that size can be a factor. Since this is in addition to my having already experienced SD I am not as confident as you that I will birth a large baby without problems. That's even if I have a large baby, since estimating size is very inaccurate.

I have an ante-natal appointment tomorrow. Must write a list of questions out for the mid-wife.

[*EmJa*]

hi hotKim,
im in a similar situation as u, im pregnant with number 2 and when my DD was born she suffered SD and BPI to her left arm..ive been told by one doctor that he would advise me to have a c/s or be induced earlier because if bubs shoulders got stuck it could have a worse outcome than DD which is scary but i want nothing more than to have a natural birth.

my new doctor does not seem as worried and thinks i may still be able to have the natural deivery im so very wanting..i have to have a scan at 36wks to check bubs size (which i know is not always accurate) and then they are going to go through everything with me risks etc..but in the end its upto me

its totally upto u, its so hard because we dont have a crystal ball to see wat will happen!

[HotKim]

its so hard because we dont have a crystal ball to see wat will happen!

Hi Blanche!! At last, someone in the same predicament as me!! (not exactly something to be happy about but you know what I mean!!)

I've been meaning to discuss the advantages, if any, of weight prediciton using 3D ultrasounds. Is this something you have considered?? The accuracy of sonographic weight testing is about 60% according to what I have read but you only need to look through the forums to see just how wrong they can get it. (Not trying to put you off here just discussing.)

Yes, if I had a crystal ball that would make this soooooo much easier. It's only since getting pregnant with this one that I have really delved into what happended to Master4 and I am shocked at how lucky we are that he has no residual effects of his BPI. Whilst, I could certainly handle an injury of his kind happening to this baby, I couldn't forgive myself if it were something worse.

How has your DD fared with treatment of her BPI? What kind was it? Master4 had Erb's Palsy (AKA Brachial Plexus Palsy). No movement in the left arm until 6 weeks old. In recent weeks, after reading more into it, I have thanked God it wasn't any worse.

I was considering inducement for this one but again, couldn't make up my mind which was the better of two evils, C/S or inducement?? Neither negates the possiblity of SD or even BPI.