When does the baby's soul enter the body?

[Mum2Romone]

my son still has his stalk mark on the back of his neck. he is a very intelligent little boy and amazes me by saying thing that I have not taught him or ever spoken about.

I believe the soul enters the body when the heart starts beating but doesn't attach, to its physical form....until the baby is old enough to live outside the mother. same with the body, mind, soul connecting at birth, first breath.

I'm not sure where my beliefs come from.

I wish I could remember the name of a book..... That was all about past lifes and souls being reborn, recounting other lives etc and connection between people reoccurring again and again, ie soul mates etc.....

[LionsandBears]

I've read a great book about Life between Lives which touches on this. In it an old soul explains that the souls weaves in and around the physical form of the developing baby but does not fully meld with the physical form for a few years after birth. The soul sometimes leaves the body and plays on an astral plane. They use this to explain why sometimes babies die - their soul is playing and they forget to come back to their body. I hope this idea doesn't upset anyone who has had a baby die from SIDs

The other thing they mentioned is when children die young, their incarnation was not for their soul's benefit, but for their parent's. I can accept this on an intellectual level but struggle emotionally. The thought that our son died because of our karma is very distressing. On the one hand, I know he did not suffer and we were truly blessed to have had him. On the other, I feel guilty that something I've done in a previous life has caused this. If I chose this before I was born, I really hope there's a damn good reason for it. It's something I find hard to deal with.

They also explain that there is no judgement on termination. It does not harm the baby's soul. The same with euthanasia - there is no soul benefit for pointless physical suffering - so ending that suffering does not affect the soul's evolution.

[~StarBright~]

The other thing they mentioned is when children die young, their incarnation was not for their soul's benefit, but for their parent's.

Yes i have been told by phsycics that my angels came and went so quickly to teach me lessons, and i have been able to accept that on some levels.. also that for their own soul lessons, they only needed to learn and experience unconditional love- which they got in that short time by being with me... i have had more than one person tell me that it had a lot to do with my own past lives and lessons, but that i have made leaps and bounds in this life by going through those experiences. Two seperate meduims told me about previous lives where i constantly lost babies time and time again, life after life, and so i needed to loose them in this life to recall the feelings and put closure to them, and i did that, and thats why i was able to go on and birth my live children- which i hadnt been able to do for many many life times.

[nickle730]

My eldest DD was born with noticeable marks on her third eye and her incarnation chakra (that's the one at the back of your neck, at the base of your skull...the very last exit point when you die)

I don't mean to hijack, but Marydean can you elaborate? My little DD still has reddish marks on her forehead (in the middle, a sort of V-shape down to between her eyebrows) and the base of her skull (a smudge into her hairline). She was not an assisted delivery, but initially I thought they were caused by her passage through the birth canal. They are always distinguishable, but sometimes more noticeable than others. I had thought nothing of them, particularly as my DS, my DD and I all have the same smudge at the base of our skull. I am amazed at the number of people who tell me she is either 'knowing' or 'an old soul'. When she was born she delivered face up and my MW was about to turn her but DD looked at her, blinked and turned herself. The MW was astounded and said she had never seen such a deliberate act in a birthing baby. The MW was the first person to call DD an 'old soul' and kept visiting us on the ward because she said she was 'drawn' to her in a way she couldn't explain. I now look at my tiny little DD and I swear I see my great grandmother (who died about 12 years ago) in her eyes. My mother finally told me she has seen the same in my DD yesterday (she didn't want to freak me out!).

Anyway, I waffle... I just wondered at the significance of the marks?

Rurumummy, thank you for sharing the beliefs of Islam. I didn't know of that particular belief before and I'm always interested to learn new things! Is there a reason for the specific 40 days, is that stated in the Koran? Is 40 days the absolute belief of Islam or is it more specifically when the heart starts to beat?

Possums... sorry to hijack, happy to take it elsewhere if you are bothered!!

[Michelle71]

Tash - I don't see the loss of a child as a reflection of karma. It is not karmic punishment for something (anything) we may have done wrong. I do see it as a lesson that I needed to learn but not as a result of me doing something bad. For example, after Caitlyn died I found BB and a specific group of women who have loved me and supported me through my subsequent pregnancies and births.

Without the loss of Caitlyn, I would not have the same appreciation for my children and the importance of my time with them. I was quite career focussed before her loss. Without Caitlyn dying, I would not understand the potential depths of darkness that I could fall towards and did fall into for some time. Only after could I see how deep I really was.

Caitlyn's death gave me a different perspective of the world and what was important to me. She gave me the skills and strengths (and the very special group of women who held me up and hold me together) to cope and still give birth to DS2 and parent my babies after DH died. Without her loss I would not survived the past 10 months without Greg.

In the months after Caitlyn's death I could not see how this could possibly have a purpose or a reason. Five years later I can see the lessons I have learned and direction it has taken me. I can only hope the next few years can ease some of the pain of DH's death and give me lessons and direction that bring happiness and joy to our lives. We have had enough learning through pain. But maybe that pain is required to truly appreciated and experience joy on a different level

[MissM]

Fascinating thread! I love it

I have been told by a clairvoyant who also done past life readings that the loss of a child can also be that sometimes that particular 'soul' wants to experience the process.

Interesting to think about though!

[Indadhanu]

I believe that it occurs at conception - at the moment where the sperm and the egg meet, the energy that makes the cells 'combine' (so technical I know) and become the first cells of the baby, is the 'soul' or spirit. It follows my belief in one of the law of physics - conservation of energy: energy is neither created nor destroyed. I believe that the energy it takes to create a baby from a sperm and an egg comes from the spirit.

It's interesting reading everyone's thoughts and beliefs.

[Cassius2]

for me, i have a strong belief that the soul of our children are in existence before egg meets sperm. that like PP have mentioned, they come and go. attach - detach. go on to grow in our wombs or leave. that they can come back.

i'll explain briefly parts of my journey that bring this belief. almost 10 years ago i had a miscarriage. i was 8ish weeks pg and didnt know it, and then the loss happened. the emotion and connection to that soul that i experienced was immense. it stayed with me for years. many years. i could never forget her. in my dreams, in my decisions. then i had Leila (DD1). but the soul i lost wasnt her. Leila is a gorgeous happy go lucky kid with a psychic penchant...annoying when you are trying to 'surprise' her for her birthday lol! but she is a different soul to the baby i lost almost 10 years ago. leila is a young soul...on a fast learning curve spiritually.

then i fell pg again. the connection. immediate, scary, heady, awesome. after many many years i felt grounded again. she was back and i had this wonderful chance to meet her again. but then life and pregnancy went on and i (sort of) left her to grow. there were times when the connection would come again to the fore (which i guess might feed into MaryDean's info on the sould coming and going and coming back!). i protected this little soul with all my might. we went through a desperate loss of my Oma and how fiercely i protected her from it (especially projections from others that she was a gift from Oma...ah no, she was here well long before that people lol).
then the birth. it was a spiritual magical journey like no other. we were both so present for eachother on a level outside of this reality (best way to describe it). only now am i realising that extent as DH informs me that entire conversations that i had were not with them . we were able to talk to eachother through that process and i was able to comfort her through that as well. intense beauty like no other!

she was born with the cord around her neck, so tight. she took her first breath at one minute, but there was no fear. no one else except her and i existed in that moment and our conversation continued.

like other posters she is born with the markings (as i was and continue to have). she is an old soul. i can now see that there is a connection to Oma, but it is not Oma's to give. this baby has been around for a loonng time. i know where she has been before, i just wish Oma was here so that i could tell her...

one of the first things that i have been told by other people who have seen Marta that understand this kind of stuff is how scary intense she is with her aura. to me, she is perfect. i feel like the ying to my yang has arrived and i can breath. it's totally weird.

so to provide some of my personal insight to Possum's original post: those souls IMO are there baby! they choose when to attach and i reckon your acupuncturist is amazing in bringing your attention to your own aura and baby's. what a gift!

[LionsandBears]

Thanks for your response Michelle. I've PM'd you, as my response went way off topic.

[fi1980]

What an interesting thread!

I am really not too sure when he soul enters the body but I think it is very early, most likely at conception. It is something that my & DH have often pondered.

I believe that the souls choose to be our babies. I believe this because when I first fell pregnant with DD (we were trying but I hadn't tested positive at that stage) I had a sort of vision where something/someone came to me and told me that they had chosen to be my child and that everything would be ok. It was a very calming and positive experience. From that moment on I knew I was pregnant and that this baby was here to stay.

I'm also interested in the stalk marks. My daughter has them both on her forehead and the back of her head/base of the skull and I thought they would have disappeared by now but they haven't. Interestingly, I believe and regularly get told that she is an old soul and that she has been here before.

[LionsandBears]

like other posters she is born with the markings (as i was and continue to have). she is an old soul. i can now see that there is a connection to Oma, but it is not Oma's to give. this baby has been around for a loonng time. i know where she has been before, i just wish Oma was here so that i could tell her...

one of the first things that i have been told by other people who have seen Marta that understand this kind of stuff is how scary intense she is with her aura. to me, she is perfect. i feel like the ying to my yang has arrived and i can breath. it's totally weird.

Oh wow - I can totally see this in Marta. I thought of her marks when I read the above threads. I've thought since I met her what a remarkable little soul she is. There's something delightful about her, but it's not just a cute baby thing (though she is a cute baby!). It's something else. You know I can never resist her She's definitely an old soul.

[Arcadia]

I think a babys soul exists even before conception, but the physical embodiment of that soul occurs at conception.

I have had a baby boy visit me in dreams about five years ago...samuel is his name, and yet I haven't conceived him. I often wonder if I will ever birth him, or if I missed that opportunity. I *know* this baby is a boy, and yet I also know it is not him...but another young soul, like me and my dh.

My nephew has one of the oldest souls I have ever encountered. I cried when I first saw him...and even now feel so uncomfortable in his presence...he sees through me into my deepest heart.

[Cassius2]

Oh wow - I can totally see this in Marta. I thought of her marks when I read the above threads. I've thought since I met her what a remarkable little soul she is. There's something delightful about her, but it's not just a cute baby thing (though she is a cute baby!). It's something else. You know I can never resist her She's definitely an old soul.

yes! see i thought that maybe you could see something but was too shy to ask . she definitely saw that you knew her cover was blown . man how she connected to you was totally cool! i'll never forget that BB xmas meet, she was soo young and yet had mastered the art of asking Tashy for a cuddle lol.

Arcadia: yeah it can be so intense meeting such an old soul...the seeing right through you part can be so confronting. it's weird though, 'cause although marta can do this, i *like* it. like she is finding me again. i dont find it a strange coincidence that since she arrived that my spiritual abilities have been stronger. she is helping me become more comfy in my own skin.
mebbe next time you see your nephew, try to get a vibe about what he is seeing...it can be interesting!

[Fleur]

I have been reading this thread with interest & just have to say, Cassius that was the most beautiful story / post, it gave me goosebumps!

[Nettie]

I really enjoyed it too

[Possums]

wow, this thread is great, thanks for all the responses and wonderful stories - I love reading the discussions.
Yesterday I had a great scan at 10 weeks...this is the longest pregnancy I have had now, so we are into new ground. I hope I get many months to bond with this soul that has chosen to join me. I do feel lucky that my acupuncturist is so in tune with these things and can finetune both me and the baby in a spiritual way.
I have also heard 'spirit babies' is a good book

[Cassius2]

you go girl! was it really amazing to see your bubba in there? (silly question i know lol!). it's so amazing!

[Possums]

it was amazing! because we havent had a positive 10 week scan before, DH and I couldn't believe how much more we could see already, and movement! It was fantastic, I was so relieved also, so pretty emotional day :-)