what are eenee weenees nappies like?

[Mel:D]

Hi,

I am trying to decide on the best nappy option for our first bub. we are hoping to use either cloth or possibly eenees but can't seem to find much information on the eenee weenees napies, they are a pair of pants with a biodegrable disposable liner or you can use cloth in the liner. we have a compost bin so I thought they could be quite handy and save on washing. has anyone got experience using these? what have you found are the advantages / disadvantages compared to using cloth nappies? can you flush them down the toilet?

thanks for your help!!!
Mel

[~Raven~]

Target have them I think. I know they used to.

I also saw them at the PBC expo last year so if it hasn't been to Perth yet there could be a chance you can see them there.

The website is quite informative and you can buy what you need from there. I've not used the nappies but have bought the flushable liners from time to time.

ETA I just checked the PBC xpo and it was in Perth in August.

[krysalyss]

Hi Mel,
We used eenees until DS grew out of the first size and we switched to Bambos nature nappies. We found them pretty good. We used the pads and composted them. I know they say they are flushable but we didn't do it as we live in an old house and just don't trust the plumbing. I loved the look of them. They were just so cute. We had eight pairs and one extra plastic insert. The good thing about them is they are quick dry. We got them from a nappy distributor up here. You can sometimes also find them on ebay. You aren't supposed to compost the pooey nappies so we composted the wet one and put the dirty ones into a biodegradable bag (like the dog poo bags that you get at a dog park) and then into the bin.
HTH.

[Mel:D]

Thanks guys yes I've looked at the info on the website, you can order thru the web or you can buy them at planet ark. I just really wanted to know how they stack up with other nappies specially using full cloth before I go crazy buying a whole heap.

Krysalyss - why did you change was it just out of convenience?

[krysalyss]

It was because they put the price up and because Safeties nappies came in (100% biodegradable). Then we looked at the environmental impacts and decided that Bambos were probably the best because of the processing compared to safeties and the water we seemed to be using with the eenees. Time also played a part though as we both work part time and parent part time but it was mostly the environmental stuff. I don't think they are as absorbable as bambos because we seemed to go through a lot and they aren't cheap. Hard to compare as we never used them at the same time.

[Mel:D]

are you happy with bamboos? and do you just put them in the bin? cause I'm not sure how true this is should really do my research but I've heard that even if you put biodegrable disposables in the bin they go to landfill which is not as efficient as composting due to the fact that there is no air therefore they still take ages to degrade but I guess they are still better than regular disposables plus theres still the fact that they are made using better products and less energy. its a hard one.

[krysalyss]

It is a bit of a myth. They still degrade just not as fast as in a compost or worm farm. I think eenees are supposed to degrade in about 4 weeks in a compost. From our experience I would say that is pretty close. We really like Bambos but just wish we could be sure about the best environmental option as each nappy manufacturer puts their own spin on it. So I guess we are happy with our choice. As far as quality goes Bambos are really good. We do just put them in a bin because they aren't 100% so we can't really put them in the compost. Safties come with their own biodegradable nappy bags. My only warning about them is to check the sizing as we got the 5-10kg ones and they were too small forDS when he was about 7 kg.

[StrawberryMumma]

Hi Mel!

You probably know this but I think there is a shop in Freo that sells them..have you been there?

[StrawberryMumma]

Sorry just read you post before!

[Mel:D]

Thanks krysalyss. and thanks Lee have you tried them?

[nicolelh]

I guess it depends on why you want to go cloth.

if it's to avoid nasty chemicals you might want to think again.

normal disposables have many very nasties in them, including formaldehyde (carcinogen, sensitising agent) TBT- tributyl tin - v. v. nasty, organochlorines including dioxin (mutagen, carcinogen) etc. not to mention the latex and dyes which can be highly allergenic.

Disposables also contain Sodium Polyacrylate, a powder which absorbs moisture very quickly and turns into a gel. These gel crystals are often found on babies' genitals when they come out of the nappy - the huggies packets even warn about this possibility. Sadly, the disposable manufacturers say that it's an inert, harmless substance, however:
-it (SPA) has been linked to scrotal and perineal bleeding
-SPA used to be used in feminine hygeine products but has now been removed as it was linked to toxic shock syndrome
-as it is a chemical process that is keeping bub dry, it tends to absorb more than it should and dry out their skin
-the material safety data sheet says that spills should be cleaned up immediately adn that people handling the stuff should use gloves.

so - do you want that near your baby's genitals?

there have also been NO long term studies on the safety of putting superabsorbent chemicals in our babies' nappies.

bambo nature are a good nappy that are formaldehyde, latex, TBT free etc. however, they do still contain sodium polyacrylate, although the australian distributor says that they contain less than some mainstream brands.

the eenees pads also DO contain the stuff, so I decided not ot use them, although I had been planning on it before I found out (and I had to look hard, they certainly didn't advertise the fact easily, I had to enquire directly, and quite frankly, it seemed like their marketing was trying to hide the fact, which made me generally unwilling to go with them.)

as far as I have been able to ascertain, the only disposables with no polyacrylate are safeties nature nappy (and I"m not 100% certain about this, but i think so) and Tushies Gel Free. unfortunately both are expensive, the latter more so, and the tushies are a terrible nappy that leak like billy-o all the time, especially runny poos.

compared to cloth the tushies really suck.

so for a chemical free option, which is what I insisted on for my dd as I have lots of chemical sensitivities, the eenees pads aren't a great one.

however, you can use cloth inside the pants instead if you want.

two other issues with them: I have an eenees newborn wrap, which works slightly differently to the eenee pouch pants, but on the same theme. this didn't work for us at all, the poos shot straight out the side and the pee soaked through the leg elastic immediately. the company wouldn't even consider a refund even though I could only use the nappy twice before it became perfectly clear that it did not work the way it was supposed to. I cannot imagine that a newborn, b/fed, with the standard projectile poos would work well inside the eenee pouch pants. there's just not enough protection at the legs. others may have found they did work but I can't see it myself. just my opinion.

the other issue, is that the cloth inserts they sell for them - the microfibre cloths - are not real nice on their skin so if you did want to use the cloth inserts I'd get non microfibre ones or just cut up terries.

as for the environmental impact, the REAL in depth study on the environmental impact of cloth vs disposable showed that disposables use 10 times the amount of water that washing cloth does, so even if you feel you use a lot to wash cloth nappies, it'is still much better than sposies. and yes, they take forever to break down. the safeties are the best disposable as they're 100% biodegradabe.

environmentally speaking, the best option is EC combined with cloth nappies as a back up so you are minimising washing. We did this as no nappy contained her projectil poos adequately and I would have gone mad without catching most of them in teh potty. of course the other benefit is we will never have the "issues" some people have when ttraining with their toddlers being scared to use a potty, or addicted to using nappies etc.

I have found folded terries as a basic workhorse nappy, plus great covers (only needed during naps now thanks to EC) and some good quality AIOs or pockets for outings is all we need. I don't even own any sposies any more.

[krysalyss]

Good post Nicole!
The reason we went against Safeties is because they use cotton which of course is one of the worst crops for pesticides/insecticides and water.
We may rethink our use of disposables altogether. The info about the sodium polyacrylate is interesting, although I have to say Bambos have never had bits of gel come out like we have found when we use other nappies in an emergency.
I guess also I am worried about the amount of time needed for MCN and their effectiveness as well as the cost involved at the outset. DH and I both cram work around being parents and I am not sure how much more we can fit around. Would love to hear more though. May head to the MCN threads.

[Mel:D]

Thanks for the great post nicole. I will show it dh when I get home tonight, yeah for me is definitely a combination of not wanting horrible stuff near my bubs bottom and trying to do the right thing environmentally. there’s so much to think a about. I definitely like the idea of EC but I don't know if I could do it, I should read more on it. Thank you!

[nicolelh]

Good post Nicole!
The reason we went against Safeties is because they use cotton which of course is one of the worst crops for pesticides/insecticides and water.
We may rethink our use of disposables altogether. The info about the sodium polyacrylate is interesting, although I have to say Bambos have never had bits of gel come out like we have found when we use other nappies in an emergency.
I guess also I am worried about the amount of time needed for MCN and their effectiveness as well as the cost involved at the outset. DH and I both cram work around being parents and I am not sure how much more we can fit around. Would love to hear more though. May head to the MCN threads.

very good point about the cotton crops. I hadn't thought of that!

I think the bambos must have less gel than the others then, like they said.

effectiveness of mcn? do you mean leakage, vs disposables?

if that's what you mean, then the MCN win hands down. Actually, I think even folded terries with good covers win hands down! I have used samples of huggies, bambo, you'll love coles and whole packets of tushies. none of them contained projectile poos - to the extent that my relatives would leap up when they heard her poop if she was wearing a disposable - they'd learned the hard way to get her off their laps asap! sposies tend to let the runny poos escape up the waist band badly, if not the legs as well. it's better with solids poos, but even then, all my friends using sposies seem to consider a "blow out' a normal thing from time to time. with a good cloth system, you shouldn't get a blow out ever. (occasional minor leg leakage - say a couple of times a year - if you're not using a good cover.)

most MCN you just throw out a dirty liner, if you use a flushable liner, even better - poo in teh loo where it belongs - then rinse the nappy, chuck it in a bucket, then it goes in a normal wash with half a dose of detergent every few days. you don't need to soak, fold or even peg if you don't want to - I lay mine over the top of the clothes horse inside, or 1 peg per nappy outside. I do use lots of terries as well -as my cheap option, but now that she's getting a bit too big for the best fold (the bat fold) I'm trying to convert to more mcn. I don't actually rinse my nappies as I take them off as my laundry is downstairs. so they just go into a bucket as is, then I rinse when teh bucket is full - between daily and every 2nd day, depending on our ec. I wash about every 3-6 days. usually closer to 3.

I look at converting to mcn like this.

Start with a dozen terries for $25 from woolies (the ones they sell there are the best, believe it or not!) and 1 good quality cover. Also get 1 MCN - try an AIO like BumGenius or a cheap pocket like PeaPods - whatever you can afford to start off with. That should only cost you $60, less if you go second hand. use them before you use any disposables, washing every 2 days if you can. take note of how many disposables you have saved, until you have saved yourself a whole packet. then, spend that amount on one or two more MCN. if you start with a second hand nappy, or a slightly cheaper one like Peapods, then you can buy more earlier and start saving faster. once you have 15 or so, you'll be saving lots more on sposies and can then start buying more mcn, so the savings are exponential. you can then get some more expensive ones if you want. some people love peapods - they're only $16 each, but others find they need something more heavy duty. eventually, you might not want to use your terries but I find them great becuase they dry fast, they go in the tumble drier happily, you can have fun experimenting with folds and they are the coolest in summer I think.

feel free to pm me if you want info on where to buy 2nd hand nappies and covers, cheap peapods etc.

Mel
EC is the easiest thing in the world. it's made out by lots of people who don't understand it that it's really complicated. but seriously - you know your newborn will poop straight after a feed. so you take his nappy off, hold him over a potty, hey presto, you've saved yourself a dirty - he's happier, you get to boast how clever he is and you put his clean nappy back on. you would have been changnig it anyway!!

it can be just as simple as using a potty at a nappy change. after a while, if you're only looking for poos, you tend to need to do it less as many b/fed bubs move on to once a day or something less regular. if you start when they poop every feed though that makes it much easier to teach him what to do.

I now try to catch wees but mostly for the challenge of it - I have had days, at 3 months old, where her disposable was removed and replaced clean and dry for 10 hours! once a new mcn lasted 25 hours, including overnight!

and I know that when I want her to toilet train, she won't be scared of the potty or anything like that. take a read of the posts in toilet training forum for plenty of reasons to start pottying with the newborn!

it also makes newborn baby care heaps easier, as they do cry a lot at that age when they want to poop because they really dont' like to use the nappy - it goes against their instincts not to soil themselves. ask any mother in a third world country - they definitely do have those instincts.

it also seems to help them avoid the evening fussing/crying. they learn to release poop (and with it, gas) when you offer the potty so they don't get the afternoon tummy pains from trying to hold it in. I used to help her on the potty regularly when she was hard crying and it almost always stopped the problem straight away. her "colic' stopped the day we started with teh potty.

anyway, I could email you an article I wrote about the benefits and how to go about it easily if you want to pm me your email address.

sorry for the long post everyone!

[krysalyss]

The other thing I would want to avoid is using bleach for cleaning of the nappies. We don't use it for any household cleaning but substitute vinegar and bi-carb. What do you soak yours in?
I will pm you as I would love to know a bit more about EC. You see it all the time in China. They just hold them out and whistle and the baby does a little tinkle.

[Mel:D]

Hi thanks Nicole. I love your posts really putting things into perspective for me. I hate they way everyone I tell we are going to try to go cloth they are like oh you are mad you won't last two seconds etc. Krys we are the same we don't use cleaning products only vinegar and soap. Last night I also got told by my sister in law that I am way to fuzzy because I said I didn't want to use Johnson’s or any of those baby products or put harsh chemicals near my baby’s skin she’s like oh my kids have beautiful skin. Anyway I tried not to argue! At least dh is supportive we are both enviro sc and are in the process of fully retrofitting our old cottage so its more enviro friendly and sustainable anyway that another story. I really hope I can do this (MCN) is just so hard when everyone discourages you!!! I will definitely pm you Nicole for the EC article.

Ok so what would be best for the first week, especially for the hospital? I guess for that is probably easier to get either terry or eco disposables? It seems that you can’t win with the eco disposables they either don’t work or still have the nasty stuff or have some other form of nasties? I have one friend who uses the weenies and she said she’s never found the gel come out like she does with huggies. Did you ever have the gel come out Krys? Or I uses safeties or bambos? I mean if its only going to be for the first week or for a back up I guess I don’t mind paying a little more.

As far as cloth nappies goes I have heard so many different opinions on which to use. Work generally gives you a present when you leave and one of the ladies suggested a nappy service for a few months but I said to dh that they probably wash their nappies with harsh chemicals. Do you guys know? I was hoping that maybe they could give me one of those start up nappy packs like baby beehinds have but it’s so hard to know which nappy to use and if they will work some people say they are really bulky. Anyway it looks like I am back to the drawing board on this one.

Nicole since you are against chemicals do you mind me asking what you wash your dd with? And also what do use for wipes when you are out?

Omg sorry nicole that’s way too many questions! You’ve got us started now! I really like the idea of EC, its so true we teach them to poo their pants poor things.

[krysalyss]

We didn't have gel come out from either eenees, safeties or bambos. As far as wipes go we use seventh generation which seems great and pretty natural (have you heard of these Nicole?).
We don't use a baby bath wash. In fact you don't need to use one at all as long as the nappy area is clean before you bath them. DS has eczema and any bath wash irritates it.
One thing I did like on the eenees is that they aren't very bulky. Not sure how this matches up with MCN?

[krysalyss]

Hi Mel. Just noticed you and your DH are environ. sci. How interesting! We are almost in the same field - mine is wildlife biology. Do you guys work for a non-profit or a council etc? BTW understand if you dont want to post in a public forum. Am just interested to meet others in similar fields.