When 1,2,3 no longer works on your 4yo, what then?

[Gigi]

last few years, i've been using "count to 3" with bilby, with great success, to get her to comply, co=operate.

all of a sudden (she turned 4 in Nov), it's stopped working - at all.

what could i replace it with?

would love to hear any ideas.

we have massive timely sessions about getting her to eat, getting her dressed, getting her to sit to have her hair done (long hair that needs to be plaited to stop the knots).

would like some of the battles to decrease, even just a bit

after an episode of her NOT getting out of the public pool for 90 minutes, few weeks back, i am now nervous to take her out anywhere like that again. I asked her nicely, i suggested she get out so we could go get an icecream each, she pretended not to hear me, wouldn't give me eye contact etc FOR NINETY MINUTES.

i didn't feel it was safe for me to bodily take her out (was worried i would drop her on the concrete due to my lack of strength). so i waited it out. 90 minutes.

[Lisa]

With my older kids, I would tell them if I needed to start to count, I would be counting the amount of favourite toys of theirs I would be taking away from them for a week. I would just give them a warning and then if they didn't co-operate I would say "Okay, 1. That's 1 favourite toy gone for a week" and no matter what, I would stick by it. They soon found out that I was serious.
That worked for us for a long while.

[LimeSlice]

You have to follow through.
Charlotte figured she could ignore it, then I once she realised the consequence was serious, she realised she should listen to the counting. lol Once you hit 3, that's it. Whatever you have said you are going to do when you get there, you have to do it.
Also found the toy taking away thing works well here, as does being sent to bed or no dessert.

[Mak]

Agree - once DD1 realised nothing was happening at 3 then she didn't care, lol!!! I have had to remember to name the consequence before the countdown. Amazingly it doesn't have to be anything major - removal of toy, quiet time in her room, no TV.
I also think being confident in yourself when delivering it is also important, has been for me, I must admit I have taken a few deep breaths.........

[sconeonamission]

Sometimes my 3yo counts with me! Usually we're at the shops, I threaten to leave him (and I know this is bad) but I'll start walking away. So far it seems to work. If he wants to go somewhere - like Nanna's- I'll use that as leveridge (so?). At home if he won't pack up, his toys are going to the poor children.

[~Lashes~]

i have been thinking the same thing. it worked for 3 weeks here, they went to my mums for a few nights, i explained it to her, and she over used it, ds1 came back id start the count, and he would say "im naughty i deserve to be in time out" he wouldnt even do anything id go to ask him what he wanted for lunch, "i deserve time out im naughty" but that was the only responce id get, that and a heap of abuse hurled at me if we got to the "go to your room for 5" i stoped trying. and am hoping that i can pick up and start again, fresh it was so good the short time it actualy worked!

[Gigi]

Agree - once DD1 realised nothing was happening at 3 then she didn't care, lol!!! I have had to remember to name the consequence before the countdown. Amazingly it doesn't have to be anything major - removal of toy, quiet time in her room, no TV.
I also think being confident in yourself when delivering it is also important, has been for me, I must admit I have taken a few deep breaths.........

You know, i have NEVER said, WHAT will happen at 3, just that i'm going to count to three.
Always thought to myself (for last two years) "i will be stuffed when she calls my bluff and LETS me get to three - cos i have nada at three".

So maybe i will try 1.2.3 again , but with a specified consequence (for three being reached).

I like the ref to START BEHAVIOURS and would love to hear more on that.
Last night she sat (and got down) x repeat alot - for two hours, until she ate her chicken.
(Once she's eaten her dinner, she gets to pick something out of the surprise box. Rarely does she get anything, despite fun things being in the box).

i have never tried taking away toys before, will thinik about that.

I don't believe in the Naughty Step (just stating my preferences)

i get bilby to pick up toys, put away clothes by saying "oh look, the naughty gnomes left your pj's on the floor, we need to have a tidy up". She's just started saying "it was me that left them on the floor". which i'm glad about. she said it in her own time. I like having a subtle way to reminding her what to do. And i do remind her of the safety aspect. she has a little bedroom, so wherever toys are on the floor, that's where anyone would have to walk (and therefore slip on the toys).

thanks for the name of that program DIvvy, must look that up.

Yes, when i can find it in the budget, she will be having a haircut, just long enough for a pony. She loves having long hair, i'm wondering if she will suddenly freak out when hair actually gets cut. Right now, i'm not sure she understands, what she SEEMS to be agreeing to.

She had another "i don't wanna leave" turn (playdate at friend's house) last night. Wouldn't change from her friend's costume back into her own clothes, wouldn't leave house on her own steam. So i had to undress her (while she's running away/struggling), and eventually, the only way i could get her to get dressed, was to promise her an iceblock, once we were home. i felt awful having to bribe, but it worked. (and the playdate friend - we were holding up her bedtime so i felt embarrassed).

thanks so much for all the replies, i really appreciate reading all these ideas/responses - you are all so kind to share your stories with me.

[Cranky Kitten]

Just on the "I don't wanna leave" thing, do you warn her when it is getting close to time to go? I found my DD a right pain when it came to home-time for a while until I started warning her about 10-15 minutes beforehand. Kind of like "It will be time to get out of the pool and go home in 15 minutes. What do you want to play on before we go?" or "It will be Friend's bedtime soon so in about 10 minutes we're going to help pack up the toys and say goodbye."

The most important thing though, is to carry through. Give her the allotted time, then act on what you've said without allowing any wriggle room for 5 minutes more etc. I found it gives her time to recognise that it's nearly home time and to have that one last go on the slide or turn of the best toy.

That said, there may well be times that she'll balk and continue to play up - that's when 1-2-3 *bam* consequence comes in handy. Especially if they know there is a consequence before you start counting and know they won't like it (usually have to have used it and followed through a couple of times before this stage). I never really specified what the consequence will be, my DD discovered it when she got to 3 and was then informed that she was missing out on something she really wanted or enjoys doing because of her behaviour. I've used things like loss of TV for the rest of the day, staying at home with Dad instead of coming shopping with Mum, loss of favoured possession for specific length of time etc - anything that is a suitable deterrent.

Good Luck

[Beach Mama]

I don't have time to post a long reply but will pop back later tonight. Sounds to me that the things you want her to do are "start" behaviors not "stop" where you might count her to 3. If you count her on start behaviors (start eating dinner) you may essentially stop her itms. Back later :hugs:

[BeautifulMadness]

id tell her that if she doesnt do as mummy asks she will have thigns taken off her etc

consistancey

[toomanyshoes]

I remember when it stopped working here, I was gutted

As others said it's important that you follow through with everything you say. I don't use counting here anymore but my DD is a little older (almost 5), I've found its more helpful to explain things to her, why it's important to keep her room clean, why we don't yell in the house and so on.

[Amity]

Please look at Parent Effectiveness Training. I did this course (27 hrs over 9 wks) and it literally changed my life.

I now use it on just about everyone including work colleagues, clients, and most particularly my XH.

Well he does behave like a child so May as well treat him like one.

Kelly has some great articles about it on the main site after I put her onto it too.

Good luck!

[Beach Mama]

Back a day later sorry. So we use magic 123 here like lots of mums here do and it works well most of the time for us. We count stop behaviors like nagging, sooking, teasing J etc anything we want to stop!

With start beaviours like brushing hair, eating dinner etc they are called start behaviours and the things they recommend in the book are
Positive Reinforcement so picking up on the good stuff all the time (ALL the time!)
Simple Requests "YOu need to brush your hair now" rather than asking if it's ok to do it now? TMS,
using a Kitchen Timer - setting the timer and making it a game "Can you race the clock and get the toys picked up before it beeps etc"
The docking system ( I think this is more for older kids) principle is that they lose pocket money or time on a computer etc,
Natural consequences eg. taking too long to get dressed - take them to preschool in pjs - natural consequence is that they won't want to go in pjs again!
Charts - we use reward charts with a fair bit of success here and
lastly, Counting 123 for things that take less than 2 minutes.

Worth getting the book out from the library!! Sorry about the huge rambly post!

[Nettie]

I think I need to know this too... Liam doesn't like to get his nappy changed, get dressed, get shoes on, eat, bath, etc.... unless I can think of something he really wants, and he's not too tired - I can often bribe him But not all the time.

about the pool incident. I know what you mean about thinking twice for next time. I'm taking Liam to the play cafe tomorrow to meet up with my Mother's group and I had a scene when we left it last time.. So I'm a bit worried about tomorrow too.

I'd be interested in these other things you guys are mentioning -- but not sure how to find out more. Can anyone post links or PM me & Gigi?

[Mother Goose]

If I count in English my daughter ignores me. If I count in Japanese, instant response!

[Nettie]

Hitch, nee, sun, she, go, rook, .. that's all I can remember And I know they wouldn't be spelled correctly. I only ever got them spoken at me (at Karate!)

[indie24]

Maybe offer a 2 choices that result in the same thing.
For example "You need to get undressed. You can do it yourself or I can help you. Its your choice" It doesn't work in all situations but I found that it helped. I know it sounds silly but it can make them feel like they have some control over the situation but you are still getting the result you desire.

[Nettie]

Maybe offer a 2 choices that result in the same thing.
For example "You need to get undressed. You can do it yourself or I can help you. Its your choice" It doesn't work in all situations but I found that it helped. I know it sounds silly but it can make them feel like they have some control over the situation but you are still getting the result you desire.

Hmmm.. That's so crazy, it just might work!