Is this child abuse?

[aussienic]

I was just talking to my mum and she suggested putting bars on all the windows and carrying the deadbolt ke around your neck?

I personally would look for another option though as I would hate to look out my windows and feel like I was living in a prison. I really hope you are able to find a solution

Is there any reason he gives as to why he keeps running off? or is he just your super active run of the mill kid

[Inanna]

I worry about the bars on windows being a fire risk...

[aussienic]

yeh thats what I said to my mum..

[Mother Goose]

Fire Brigade's HATE bars on windows. MASSIVE fire risk. If doors are deadbolted, they can at least break the window to get in. If there are bars, it takes time to cut them, to break the glass, to get in the window.

[Junglemum]

Friends have fences around their house yards with a hot wire on the outside. The house yard is bigger than most back yards so the kids have loads of room to play and are not restricted by space. It is designed to keep stock out but acts as a great deterrent for roaming kids. Most of the time the fence isn't even on, but as farm kids they are taught early not to touch 'hot' wires so it seems to work for them.

As far as the voltage goes you can adjust it. There are some fences thy would give you a nasty shock and even burn you, and others give a small sting depending on the voltage. But it is also true that a shock from mere static electricity 'can' cause a heart arrhythmia, it depends on the person. I've had lots of shocks from fences without any repercussions and I have a permanent heart arrhythmia.

Our house is surrounded by 6foot razor wire fences, that doesn't seem that different to me. Maybe we are guilty too in many eyes.

We all do what we have to to keep our children safe in our own environments. What that takes in a rural setting or another country is different to a suburban setting. I think as long as you are not directly harming them, say with an electric collar, or beating them to teach them not to roam, then in my eyes it might be an extreme measure but not child abuse.

[KimmyF]

I just want to add here that the title of this thread is "is this child abuse" so therefore OW was worried enough that it may be taken that way by outsiders, perhaps that is why some people have answered in affirmative to that question, doesn't necessarily make them extremists!

[Ilithyia]

Its a difficult one. Personally, if I'd exhausted all other avenues, I'd put the fence up. 1 small zap is not going to hurt as much as the pain of having a dead child.

Is it out of the question for your DP to have "boy time" for an hour or so each day where W goes our with your DP doing a few of the smaller jobs around the place like feeding the dogs, checking the water troughs, putting out lick blocks etc? Maybe this might give him his fix so to speak.

I hope you find a solution soon hun. I can only imagine how frustrating it must be!

[*Sparklez*]

i think personally from a child who scales everything with ease from the age of 2 do it... if u really have exhausted every other outlet u need to do something to not only protect him but show him that its really a srs thing n thats why he cant go out there..
i would adjust the voltage cus u dont want anything srs to happen to him...
i would rather my son get a lil zapp then any of the things u mentioned...
my friend but the spike things on the fence that ppl put so birds dont cme sit there to stop her son n u know what after a couple of ouches it worked he dosent bother anymore..
my son opens everything n enaything he can even open a child safety cap on a medicine bottle...
n he did that at 3 cus it tastes nice
kids are too determined these days n the dangers are greatly higher then a lil buz from curiousity..
GL hun try leave it as ur last resort but i dont think its that bad if u have really looked into it n explored all avenues

[Mum2SweetCs]

Havent read all the responses but how about a very tall colourbond fence? these are hard to climb coz they are slippery. Alarm doors? ie ones when you open it it will turn an alarm on like the ones at the shops.

[berrme]

I have climbers and escape artists too. My DS1 climbed our fence and decided to go to the park by himself while I was feeding DS2. I have seen him scale pool fences too. DS1 is even more agile at 20 months so I am going to have my work cut out for me with him! Crossing a busy road is my biggest worry, but you have endless dangers to consider. No wonder you are exhausted!

What about the fences that angle back toward you at the top rather than being straight all the way up? Like the have on prisons, but obviously without the razor wire. I don't think an electric fence is a problem though. I would also keep working on your DS and getting him to understand why he can't run off. It shouldn't be too long before he gets the picture. I think it was about 3 that DS1 stopped escaping.

Do whatever you think will work, cause you will go absolutely bonkers worrying about 2 kids, and you will never be able to keep a constant eye on both of them.

ETA, Just saw Junglemum's response... might as well go with the razor wire on the angled fence.

[christy]

OW I've had another thought... have you thought about getting him checked by a behavioural paediatrician next time you are near a town?

I know there is a lot of misunderstanding with escape artist children. For Matilda, 80% of the time had nothing to do with being bored, or wanting to be with other people, or not liking something in the house. 80% of the time it had to do with instinctive behaviour, fight or flight. Matilda's brain doesn't function normally and sometimes she fights or flights for no reason at all.... She's extremely bright, with a high IQ but just doesn't function "normally". As she gets older, well we learn to cope and she learns more about what consequences are.

An electric fence would not deter her if she wanted out. A broken window did not deter her. She has reduced pain receptors due to sensory integration disorder.

I would still suggest phoning KidSafe and maybe look into Sensory issues and see if there is anything that makes sense.

[NaeNae]

Hmmmmmmmm this is a hard thing to make a call on for me.

The city girl in me screams "ARE YOU OUTTA YOUR MIND"

BUT

We live on a large farm, with several dams, bulls, horses, machinery you name it we probably have it, not to mention a road 500m from our front door that idiot drivers like to tear around. We have an old open well that is currently covered with boards and heavy stones and thats it.

I have lived here for 6 years now and I know that a small zap from a hot fence could very well be a deterent. Viper zaps as opposed to say a Mains zap would be enough of a kick without causing a nasty burn mark or causing that breathlessness that a stronger zap can cause.

However, if your little one is as smart as you say he is it wouldn't work long term because he would find his way through or around the hot wire.

Unless you were going to run 3 wires I cannot see how it would work, even then ti would need to be angled in (like you do for say a horse pen) so then little arms and legs cannot reach the other fence.

I see that as a really costly excercise personally and in reality just how effective will it be?

We live in a very very old home too, I have been eyeing off the doors here adn think well need to put some kind of latch over the top of the door, like the side ones but straight up and down so that even on a chair the little one couldn't reach it.

We have the old sash hung windows no idea how to get those child proof.

My MIL said to me once, when I was busy pointing out all the "faults" with this place, there have been 5 generations of kids in this house, not one fo them has drowned in the well or dams nor have there been real preventitive measures put in place. The Kids were constantly supervised and they were taught where the boundaries were. When they were crossed the kids were disciplined (whatever they did I don't know)

My DD is not running around yet so really I am in no place to say anything as I have not been there, but it sounds to me like perhaps its a bit of a game for him. I know they do not have that level of understanding what dangers there are, but my first thought is with you constantly chasing him it might be a bit of a game?

I agree with another person who suggested taking him to a Paed? maybe they can offer something?

I dunno hun, I appreciate you're in a real tough situation and a hot wire seems like a good idea but lets face it, even cows/sheep/horses etc can get out of a boundry with a hot wire or two so really ........ so can you're little man.

Is it child abuse ...... if I didn't live where I live and know what I know now then I would have said yes. But I don't think it is NOR do I think it will be effective for you.

Its not as if you are tethering him! NO this is not a suggestion either

ETA- Oh and on the snake thing, those little turds can be ANYWHERE, even in your back yard! we had a 30cm tiger snake come through our cat box (converted woodbox) into our lounge room, it had to go past horses, open low cut grass and two dogs but it still got in.

[mrs.kitarn]

Guys... She's ON A STATION!!! She can't just pop down to the nearest buntings and grab some new fencing or new locks. I say if that's what you need to do to protect your son and also your own sanity then do it Hun

[NaeNae]

^^ If she gets mail, she can mail order small locks etc ^^

[OutbackWoman]

Christy, sounds like a good idea, we did have the RFDS in one day and they said that his behaviour was mostly normal for kids out this way, because they can see 'Daddy' working and want to be in on it... in saying that though he has a Paeds appointment on 14th Feb in town (which is about as close to a behavioural doc as I will be able to get out here ) so will mention it to him then..
Thanks!

NaeNae, We don't have snakes in the yard because it is perimeter-ed off with that ultrasonic thing that runs off solar power, didn't cost much either which is great! just wish it would work for the mice as well! sigh...

I think colour-bond is a good idea, but it's a pain in the proverbial to put up, and we can't get a professional to come out here and do it, we are just too far out... it's also rather expensive and whilst it might be a nicer avenue than an electric fence, it is going to cost around $6000 to put it up around our entire yard, not something we could afford until we get the baby bonus from the new bubby, and that is 8 months away at least! lol... I would think by then he would be a bit more understanding about the dangers etc..

[helle]

Guys... She's ON A STATION!!! She can't just pop down to the nearest buntings and grab some new fencing or new locks. I say if that's what you need to do to protect your son and also your own sanity then do it Hun

She's gonna have to go somewhere anyway to get the stuff for an electric fence.

[christy]

Yeah but most of the stores for equipment on a station are stocked with electric fence, not colourbond....

My DD1 has gotten through all the safety first child locks. She got through the door handle ones in 2 days, the fridge/cupboard locks took less than an hour for her to work out. She worked out how to break windows, climb up to get keys to unlock doors/padlocks. Our old house had a little lock on the top of the windows that was just a latch style lock and another different type of latch on the bottom of the windows.... she could do them both at once. One gate for our verandah had a padlock with combination which she just decided to climb... to go down one story on the side of the house. It was pool style fencing with just vertical posts.... no horizontal ones.

She now takes great joy in climbing up door frames and hanging off the top of them. Not using a chair or anything just her dexerity.

What I keep saying in this thread over and over is that you wouldn't understand these kids if you don't have one. They are not spirits that you can contain and as a parent you just hold your breath and pray hard that they arrive safely....

[lilima]

I worked with a young bo who escaped everything! To the point that after putting a solid front door on his bedroom, he kicked a hole through the internal wall and got out of his room that way. What we eded up doing was double pailing the fences to make them as tall as possible, then we added that spikey things that someone else suggested that you use to deter birds. I worked well. They also had deadbolts on the doors higher up, and carried the key around their neck.

I think the electric fence is something that is used on the farms. I don't have a problem with it if it means your child is safe, but I too am concerned that he will work out how to get over/under it.