To smack or not to smack

[sushee]

I was smacked as a child. I could say I turned out ok, but how would I know? I don't know any differently.

I do know I feared my parents and yet I still loved them and sought comfort from them. My kids were scared to death of their dad and bent over backwards to please him when they were younger. I do know that you can teach children about danger without hitting them because I did it as have lots of others. I DO know people who are damaged by corporal 'discipline' - my children are examples of that. And obviously a fair few people who have participated in this thread feel damaged by it too or there would not be such strong opinions about it.

But suffice to say, your kids are yours and not mine, so I actually have no investment at all on the way you parent. I just know I wish my kids had never had to experience that and perhaps had I known them what I know now, I might have done something sooner instead of assuming all would be fine.

[SunnyRain]

I'm sure you are insulted by my feelings, but I have vowed in life to never be a passive spectator to the ills of the world.

The truth is there is a strong agreement in the medical, educational and psychological world that states training children with violence is not OK. I'm not going to sugar coat it, it's irrelevant how hard you hit your child.

Why not just take the scorching coffee away instead of hitting them? There are alternatives, and without using violence a child will still learn not to grab hot liquid, or do you think they'd still do it at 20?


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[Rouge]

Sushee

And for the record I too don't judge anyone on how they parent. I do what I do for my children because it's what I believe, I won't challenge you so in turn don't challenge me and we'll all get along fine That doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on how I want my children to be parented, that doesn't mean I'm challenging you. But the reason I get defensive is because when it's insinuated that the only reason I don't smack is because my children are angels I will defend myself because it is not at all accurate. Not in the slightest. That's not to say that I would change it, I wouldn't as the benefits are obvious on a daily basis.

And if me sharing helps someone, then I'm grateful for that. Because this is how I learned too.

And I have bad days just the same as anyone else, smack or no smack. Parenting is a hard job, no matter which way you butter your bread.

[*LittleMissSummer*]

Why not just take the scorching coffee away instead of hitting them? There are alternatives, and without using violence a child will still learn not to grab hot liquid.

She had a firm grip on the cup, im surprised she didn't burn her fingers! I tried pulling her hands off but she kept grabbing so a small tap on her hand was all that worked. If i had of stood up that would have given her a chance to pull it on herself. I do however now drink my hot drinks at the kitchen bench. Of course i should have done that to begin with but hey can't change the past and i also learnt from it.

[onthefly]

Suggesting that what someone else does may be less than optimal doesn't necessarily equate to judging them as bad parents (or whatever). That presumes that the speaker believes they are perfect and know exactly what to do in all situations - noone does.

I don't judge other parents, any more than I judge myself as perfect. I think we can all learn from each other if we are open and try to understand each other, rather than rushing to the defensive and refusing to hear anything.

So, with that preface - I challenge proponents of smacking to explain to me the logic of teaching your child not to hit others by smacking them. I'm not saying you're wrong - maybe you're on to something - I just don't understand it.

[jackrose]

I am not keen on the idea of smacking and have never used it as a means of discipline even though my brothers and I were all smacked as children (with a wooden spoon or at worst with "six of the best" threatened in our house and only executed on a couple of occasions). Mind you, our house was full of love and respect in many other ways, but when the smack was threatened, in hindsight, it was when things were out of control, 4 kids acting up, tolerances frayed, end of the day… I figure my mum or dad or both were tired, frustrated and had run out of options so fell back on what they were brought up with.

I never felt upset at my parents but I sure did feel scared when that warning came and felt pretty sorry at the time. Interestingly, the idea of a smack never made me stop to think "I shouldn't do that, I might get smacked" I was more likely to just do what I thought I could get away with before I got caught. As far as damaging me I don't respect my parents for doing it though.

As other posters have said, I didn't think anything of it before I had kids and even thought it was fine. The whole, "I was smacked, didn't hurt me" deal. When I did fall pregnant and actually had to think about how I wanted to parent, I pretty quickly changed my mind. When I made the decision not to smack, I made the decision based on looking into different child rearing philosophies. I read a bit, discussed it with friends etc and made a decision based on logic - to me - that smacking was not a good way to teach a child something. That plus, I just could not imagine doing it! I could not raise a hand to my child nor could I feel ok to give a light tap. To me, it is still physically driving home a point and it is not something I feel comfortable doing with anyone let alone my own child!

My DH was also smacked as a child and he has absolutely agreed with me once I explained my reasons. If we didn't agree, I am not sure what I would have done. I can't imagine not agreeing as the idea of smacking is just so against my ideas of what it is to 'respect' another person. Imagine if he smacked me if I did something against his wishes! Or if I gave him a light tap to draw his attention to something he was doing that was dangerous. I really do believe that words are more convincing if I want my real message to get home, not a message of do this to avoid a physical retaliation.

And for me, that is what it comes down to. What is my message to my child. It is still a work in progress of course, I will never be done questioning my parenting, questioning my motivations and my decisions around how I care for them, discipline them and teach them. I feel very strongly about always asking questions of myself as a parent so I don't fall into traps of simple solutions and then regret later that I wish I had done better.

It is thread like these that keep me thinking, and that, is a good thing!

[jackrose]

Oh, and Mayaness,

Never ok. Here's my biggest reference for anti-punishment, anti-smacking:
Punitive Damages

Most awesome link. My favourite reference too, I revisit it very often as sometimes I do feel confounded about how to go about this parenting caper without resorting to the types of behaviours that are so prevalent in our society (rewarding and punishing)

[Cassius2]

I have smacked DD1 a few times and it is, to me, the grossest and weakest (not to mention) meanest moments in my life. I feel ill thinking about how betrayed and frightened she was.

TBH, i found that all it did in our situation was create disconnect through the whole house, and in turn, created more anger and tension with her.

I think that the key is like with any parenting decision...you gotta work out a way that works for your family. some kids love and need a calm, long chat where all the bases of behaviour are discussed. some kids like to cut to the chase and have simple defined boundaries laid out that they can interpret within. and of course, all kids can and will be a mix of all those things.

IMHO, you can deal with any child without hitting. I am not an ideal proponent for not smacking as i have in the past, but, with great strength and (ALOT) of deep breaths we are learning new, (and in our case) far more effective ways. the changes i have noticed are great. i find i have more time for the girls generally (because very very little time is spent in anger over tantrums, sibling spats etc). we have a 'count to 3' rule with DD1 if she is being a real snot, or the situation is verging on dangerous. if it is simple tantrums in supermarket stuff (oh the joys) then me getting down to her eye level and talking it out works for the most part. and if it doesnt i tend to just take a deep breath and continue shopping OR, if it is obvious that the tantrum is mega and she is melting down, we simply remove ourselves from the situation. my rule now is that whenever there has been a meltdown where she has had to be removed and taken to her room (for example) we then have a glass of water or cold washer to wipe the brow (oh how very 19th century Austen lol) and we have a calm chat about the tantrum and what was going on.

it is not perfect and we are not perfect, but it works for us...so happy to be free of smacking...as are our kids.

[Earthmama]

I posted a link to an article which violates bellybelly's forum guidelines (whoops !) But basically it was a scientific perspective on the impact on the developing brain of a child in relation to smacking. It explained how detrimental regularly smacking a child is on the childs brain. Pity I can't post or quote the link because it is a really interesting article with real research based results showing the real impacts of smacking.

[Rouge]

You should be able to copy the article and name the credit without a link.

[Lolpigs]

I don't think I would smack my DD or any future children. Not beucase of anyone elses opinion just because I was raised with corporal punishment, and it wasnt just a smack on the bum. I was hit with things, belts, bamboo sticks, wooden spoons, and it was more that my mother lost control and was very angry when she did it. Alot of the time I didnt know why I was being hit, sometimes she would just come out from inside and hit me. Never explained to me why so I was always left bewildered by the experience. My DH thinks that a tap on the hand or bum would be ok, but I've already said are you sure you could even do it? He was hit with a belt as a kid, its a recurring theme for people who are 30 years old and older I think. He is still thinking on that one.

Sure I was an extremely challanging child and she was a single parent so don't hold anything against her. 30 years ago was tough times for single women. Banks still didnt lend money to single women! but I still remember the fear I had of my mother, how I never told her anything that was happening in my life as I got older, and how I neally died to alcoholic poisioining rather than telling her I was having troubles. (more yelling ensued trust me) I also remember flinching every time she raised her hand and discussing it with her years later it was only then she started to think perhaps it wasnt a good idea, but prior to that she was just doing as she had been taught/raised with. ( I also go in trouble for flinching which was stupid, but I think that is becuase it was a reminder constantly of the doubt she had perhaps done the wrong thing.) I never doubted that she loved me, but it drove me away from her fairly fast as a young adult. We have a good relationship now, but it hasent always been that way.

I dont think older generations were more ignorant, I just think that like all parents they did what they thought was best. The reason I'm not going to smack is I dont want this relationship with my children. I want them to never be fearful of me and to be able to come to me for help no matter what is going on in their lives. I still want them to enjoy coming over for dinner each week when they are 30 something. I want them to always feel safe here. I know it won't be easy but that is my goal. I also dont trust that I wouldnt just turn into my mother and fall into the same patterns.

I acknowledge the difference however bettween a smack on the hand or bum and corporal punishment. They are different and are not the same. Corporal punishment dosent teach anything other than, an adult inflicts acutal wounds on a child in the guise of punishment. Smacks on bums and hands dont do any such thing. I respect everyones right to raise their children how they see fit, however I think the world is a better place for reducing its reliance on fear/corporal punishment as a tool to control children and young adults.

[Zee]

Ok I really like to not comment on these sort of threads but here I go...

I used to be a smacker, a threatener, a intimidator. This has recently changed since having DD2. I used to smack if I felt it was warranted (after telling them several times, time out etc didn't work)and I used to threaten giving them a smack etc. At the end of my pregnancy with DD2 I decided things really were not working in my household. I was constantly saying "would you like a smack"etc and it was getting to me. I thought to myself, is smacking really working? Yes it would stop them in their tracks and they would suddenly listen but it was having a bad effect on my DD, her attitude became worse and she started to fear me. She would scream out "don't smack me" and start crying when she she had done something wrong or wasn't doing as she was told. This broke my heart. It had gone way to far. I def never flogged into them but that smack or so was becoming daily and it was def not a positive thing.

I was smacked as a child, sometimes even flogged and abused And I def didn't want my kids to get to my age and remember how terrifying their childhood was.

I will never smack, threaten or raise my voice at my children ever again. Did it help me as a child? I would say no because I grew up thinking a smacked child is ok and it really isn't. There are other options and ones that won't be damaging to your child emotionally and physically.

Having said that I wouldn't judge another for the way they parent... I have just realized smacking etc isn't what's right in this house.

[Muraho]

I grew up with a mum who smacked the 'right' way. She smacked because she was taught that was the true biblical way to parent a child, and as a single parent, she really had limited tools at her disposal.


However, I see how much that negatively impacted on our relationship and how I grew up in the long run; so my DH and I made a pact from the very beginning of our parenting caper to keep physical punishment out of our parenting toolbox.

It is a REALLY hard task and it's made even harder when you also have to deal with it being presented a lot of the time as the 'right' way to discipline kids if you're a Christian; so we're constantly learning and getting more information on other ways to discipline. Reading books like Grace Based Parenting and Parenting where Grace is in place; and websites like Dare to Disciple and Get Off Your Butt Parenting and Arms of Love have really helped me in getting other ideas together about disciplining my son.

Not that it's only a Christian issue, but I believe the scriptures used to justify it when I was growing up were taken in a way that it has never been meant. I've done a lot of reading about it, because of having that teaching - and I'm sad that so many Christians are being taught that if you want to parent in a way that God would approve of, you have to smack. It's gross misapplication of scripture.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Absolutely, Muraho, and I highly recommend Robin Grille's Parenting for a Peaceful World for you. It's not a Christian text, and it refers to the misapplication a lot, as well as referring to spirituality (he doesn't declare himself in any way), so it's really quite accessible and applicable to all faiths and denominations. I've lent it to my mum for that reason, though I'm not sure she's going to read it - it might bring stuff up that she hasn't dealt with from her own past

[MrsBexie]

I haven't read all the replies but my PERSONAL opinion is that yes we will smack DD an any other children we may have.

When she is being naughty or doing something she knows is wrong, we tell her no. Then if she does it again, we say No an move her away. If she goes back and does it again we will say No and smack her (lightly tap) her hand. I don't go for the smack right away, I give her a few chances to do what she is being told and if she continues to not listen she does get a very light smack.

As a child I was smacked when I did something wrong. I wasn't hit or absued, I was disciplined. And I learned very fast what is appropriate and what isn't. My dad was a pastor of a church so I grew up in a christian family. I was raised with christian values and views and still don't think smacking is wrong. However I do believe that some parents abuse their authority and take it a step to far or smack unneccessarily.

It is a completely personal choice, it doesn't work for some children like my nephews who if they get smacked they will hit back or become violent, but if my sister talks to them and explains what they did wrong and that it hurt mummy that they disobeyed her they don't do it again. That works for them! As does different things for all different families.

I think it is very important not to judge parents on their choices of discipline, however all children do need to be taught discipline however you do it. My only problem is when parents don't teach their children discipline and self control and thats where you get out of control children and teenagers. We are the adults and it is our responsibility to raise our children not the other way round.

Sorry for the essay


Sent from my iPhone so sorry for the spelling and punctuation!!

[PumpkinZulu]

MrsBexie, can I just ask, and I don't mean this in a loaded way at all, I really want to know...what will you do when your children start tapping you back, or tapping other kids or people? Will you still use the three step thing, with #3 being a tap, or what? How will you explain that you can tap but they can't.

[sushee]

My only problem is when parents don't teach their children discipline and self control and thats where you get out of control children and teenagers. We are the adults and it is our responsibility to raise our children not the other way round.

Sorry, I am not being argumentative but I disagree with that statement. As a parent of kids that are now heading into adulthood I can tell you that 'out of control' teenagers have little to do with how you parent. Yes, you can give them the building blocks of self control and discipline but once they hit their teens, your influence on them drops to insignificance, and their friends and peer group that leads them. You can raise 4 kids the same way, and based on their personalities, they can become completely different teenagers (and they do!). And each will have to find their own way. Some of the boundaries they push will seem like they're 'out of control' but that is all part of the learning process, and I don't judge a parent for their teenagers' actions. They're completely separate people by that age.

I also don't personally believe that smacking teaches your children discipline or self control. Self esteem teaches them that - they have to believe in THEIR decisions, and this is what helps them make the best decisions for themselves, and not others. That's what a lot of parents take away from their children - their autonomy to make the best diecisons for themselves. Hell, I am still guilty of it a lot of the time. I wish I'd known this when my children were younger too, but it's never too late to teach them that now. I try to parent my children via example now as opposed to discipline, not just my grown up kids, but my 5yo as well. And not smacking them is an example of how I expect them to behave with others - you don't hit to resolve anything.

[~clover~]

Well, I'm going to jump in.

I do smack. I don't feel the urge very often, but I do it.

When I find out that my almost 10 year old has just pushed or kicked her sister, again when I've told her day in, day out for 5 years its not on, its hard not to walk in & do the same to her. And I admit I have on occasion. Because i was at my wits end & didn't know what the hell else to do.

& when DS throws a tantrum at 10 pm & starts screaming because he can't have a chocolate biscuit, I have smacked, because the talking isn't being heard & I have 3 other children sleeping.

I have gone over board with my words sometimes & I have smacked that little bit hard when I've left a red mark on DS's bottom, but I acknowledge that. & I try not to do it again.

I will blame my life & my circumstances. I don't get me time. I don't get adult time. I don't get a break. I get abuse from the x, then the kids push me & I usually do just lose it.

I admit it, when I'm not coping, the kids do have it harder. I feel horrible, & I'm hoping x backs the heck off & I can finally be rid of that part of my life.

I know DD1 is being a stand over & pushes DD2 around because thats how her father was. I don't know how to change that now that she's as old as she is.

We are all human. We all make mistakes. Its the ones that don't admit it are the ones you need to worry about. The ones that never try to change their actions & keep making the same mistakes.

I am doing what I can to improve my situation for all of us, & there is alot of aggression being slowly left behind. Finally. I never, ever thought I could have my older girls sharing a room again, but they are. & they are doing it alright!

Anyone can change. Anyone can improve their situation. Anything can happen