P.E.T. article: Is Danny REALLY afraid to go to sleep?

[paradise lost]

I must be totally missing the point here - selling a "method" which is basically "listen to your loved ones" seems like money for old rope to me.

[Rouge]

I haven't done much PET because I already do it. A lot of the examples I've read I already apply. And I am sure you're probably the same paradise lost, in fact I know we are very similar with our kids. But I do think for some people who are told to listen to their kids they might not see the listen part the same way we do. It doesn't mean they are stupid and we aren't. Things that come as second nature to me do so because of my life experiences, and my emotional memories that relate to my childhood and how I felt at different times. A lot of people don't have that, so it's hard for them to use examples for them to listen. I know my DH was like that. And he used to get really frustrated with me because he thought it was unfair that I just got it and for him it was like him trying to find something but not knowing exactly what he was looking for. So we've worked on this together, and now he's very much like me. He wasn't crap as a parent he just didn't see things the way I did, the opportunities or the emotional struggles our children went through and that was because of his childhood and his own experiences.

So whilst it's not something I think I would need, I think PET is something I pretty much already do (not all obviously, as I don't think there is any method that fits a family perfectly) but I think it's a great way to put it people who might not automatically see things this way.

Oh and FYI I am not Miss Perfect Communication Mother of the Year either. Tonight I think I told DS a few times to go to bed in a not very nice tone. Which isn't very consistent or very PET. I don't have much of an excuse either, and I do feel pretty crap about it. But I did apologise when I realised I was tantruming because I was sick and tired (doesn't make it better but I hoped that it would make him feel that this was less about him!)

[paradise lost]

No, i agree, i'm by no means as good a parent as i could (or would like to) be, it's just that when i DO lose it with DD, or speak harshly or lose patience, i know what i SHOULD be doing, it's just as you say sometimes you're sick or tired or annoyed or whatever and it's harder. And DD tends to have patience with my moods just as i have patience for hers - though now you point it out i do know people who are HORRIFIED that i admit when i'm wrong and apologise to her. They say she'll "see it as weakness" - another barking veiwpoint to me i'm afraid.

I suppose i just find it hard to believe a parent would go 3 YEARS thinking a child who couldn't sleep was being difficult without ever trying to find out why.

And also, i wonder, if you (the royal you, not a specific you) don't listen to your kids at 3 or 7 or 9 at what point DO you listen to them? Or do they just remain sort of not-real people to you forever? Do you continue to boss them about and disregard them when they are 33 or 45? I don't know why i'm even asking - i can think of DOZENS of people for whom the answer is clearly "yes".

People are crazy.

[Just Me]

I would want to see him sleeping soundly for a couple of nights before I was assured the problem had been solved. To me, there seem to be a few issues that he has touched on here and could coincide with when his sleeping difficulties began - like school. He fell asleep after a long conversation with his mum and he may have just relaxed enough to do it. While it does sound like the breathing thing was causing him a lot of distress, he sound anxious about a lot more than just his breathing. He may just be a kid that is a bit anxious about lots of stuff and it comes out at bedtime.

I don't know, maybe I am missing the point, but he would have fallen asleep eventually that night. I think the evidence would be in knowing what happened on the following few nights.

ETA: I thought I should add, I don't doubt that the method of therapeutic listening works and I have used it in counselling with kids but I don't think it is a magical solution and I find kids often need to talk through things that are bothering them a few times - sometimes to make sure that they heard right or that it hasn't changed the next day or for a number of other reasons. If a child has such a deep seated belief, it is often far more difficult to break than what is written here. I also think kids tend to be more complex than one issue and Danny is presenting with an ongoing problem that would suggest he is anxious about more than just breathing. It may be beneficial for his parents to consider other methods like a way for him to work through some of his anxiety and a way to help him express it.

[paradise lost]

Just Me, i do agree, that the issue is probably more complex than as shown here, BUT i also think that if the alternative was really going to be that the mama took the book away, turned the light off and left the boy in a state of anxiety about "something" then this is definitly better, even if it's just a step towards the ultimate goal.

Also i agree that most kids, however well-adjusted they are, will need a little more than one opportunity to discuss even small things, let alone something that has been bothering them for literally years. But again, i think the point is to build a relationship where they know they CAN talk and will be heard, not to solve the problem in isolation, because new stuff is always going to crop up anyway.

[BellyBelly]

Very often, there is an underlying problem like in this example. I have had problems putting rissy to bed and she was having a mighty tantrum... when I listened I found out that she was actually missing her dad, not being stubborn about going to bed. Only by active listening can you find out the real problem and help them solve it so they are happy to go to bed. This works for me everytime. Going to bed is never the problem. Just like many other things our kids tell us, there is always something else underneath that. I also think adults are guilty of this too. We complain or argue with our partners about 'he said, she said' or things like that when really the problem is we feel hurt and sad that our partner was late home from work all week and we miss them. But we mask them as anger or other feelings - and talking helps to get to the bottom of it.

[Just Me]

Ok - so this article had me intrigued so I went and read the P.E.T. book and I understand what is going on in this conversation now. I think active listening was something I needed to contextualise in terms of what the parent was actually trying to do.

I am not entirely sold on every concept in the book, but then I am not a big believer in using only one theory in its entirety either, but I think there are a lot of great strategies used in this book. While I don't think I agree with everything (at this stage) I think it is challenging me and it has already started to change some of my thinking. I am also starting to notice things in people's conversations that I never noticed before.

I am only up to the bit in the book where they use this conversation between Danny and his mum as an example (and I surprised how much clearer it is to me having read all the stuff that comes before this example) and I am curious about where it is going to go from here.

Thought I should come back and further respond to my previous comment

[BellyBelly]

*bumping* because I think this is a great example of how what we think is the problem, often isn't... and we need to help our children solve their problems by saying the right things.