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Thread: Save Our Sleep

  1. #19

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    No I can't recommend it.



    Now I will preface this by saying that I am by no means a "gentle parent" however I just found these routines cruel and I am so so angry for attempting to use them on my first child

    She believes that by keeping in with a completely inflexible eat/play/sleep routine - that babies will learn the rhythm that you force them into for a day.

    For example, she encourages putting your child to bed and allowing them to cry it out (although she doesn't believe her way is crying it out) - even if they aren't tired.

    She also believes in not putting a tired child to bed if it isn't "sleep time".

    She believes in babies NOT going to sleep in places other than their home - it is a schedule that you will stress yourself out over and NEVER be able to go out when you NEED to unless it's in time with your child's routine.

    It is cruel - and corporal if you ask me.

    I found the Baby Whisperer (not Shayne Rowley - the American lady) a lot nicer because it teaches you to learn your child's personality type from young and teaches nice hands on strategies to manage sleep routines - with CHOICES if you are not happy to CIO.

    I found Cooper responded well to these routines and I will use the EASY method with our new baby as well.

    Good luck hun - you do what you need to do - but please if you are seriously considering Tizzy Hall - research alternatives as well. She is a money maker and nothing more. She doesn't have children so if you ask me she shouldn't be spouting this crap.

  2. #20

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    BURN THAT BOOK!!!!!!!

    Seriously irresponsible information, and VERY dangerous...

    Basically encourages women to ignore their own intincts, has no relevant research to back it up, lactation consultants would have a heart attack!!!!

  3. #21

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    I've found the book quite useful. From recollection she actually recommends that you put your child to sleep in a pram or car seat for 1 sleep a day or somewhere safe and quiet for out and about...

    I've found the routines very easy and helpful and I've found it's made my, and my DD lives so much easier as we know what's going to happen when (within reason) and can work around it.

    I ignore that leave 'em cry for 20 mins thing, but the routines themselves have been awesome.

    As for not putting your child down when they're tired - like anything you take what you like from it and use your instincts about agreeing/disagreeing with something. Of course if my DD is falling asleep on her feet (so to speak) I would put her to bed! Having said that though, there is something to be said for occassionaly keeping up a little one for that extra 15 minutes even when they're tired that seems to make a difference to the amount of time they sleep.

    I would describe myself as a gentle parent. I think everything comes in a spectrum and just because your (as in anyone/whoever) definition of gentle parenting wouldn't include a routine, but mine does, doesn't discout me from being a gentle parent and/or a good parent.

    If you're having trouble with routines and/or catnapping, I highly recommend this book. If you're having trouble breastfeeding I wouldn't recommend this book. And with anything - use your instincts and take what you'll think will work for you!

    FWIW, I don't believe my daughter is emotionally damaged in anyway for having used Tizzie Hall's routines and advice from her book - I often see the suggestion and or inference that it will, and it really aggravates me! She's a social, happy little soul and I credit some of that to her being a baby that gets a lot of sleep and a lot of play. . I think if people being so vitrolic in regards to this book would stop someone who is really struggling with sleep issues to trying out these methods, then I think that would be a bad thing...because Ithink the routines can really help with that!

    SOrry if this has jumped all over the place - just trying to get my thoughts out.

  4. #22

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    dollyroux i couldnt agree more with everything you said!
    I have found Sos fantastic. I dont follow it strictly & i dont allow dd to lay there crying but i do follow the sleep times etc & find dd is ready for bed at them times anyway. There is a revised edition out this yr which i have, it discusses allowing them to catnap, sleep in other places etc
    I dont think i'd have survived without this book!

  5. #23

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    I think as long as you are intelligent enough to discard the info that doesn't suit, there are some useful tips in the book....

    I am one that would never use CC - I detest it and am very much against it, but I found a few tips useful to us - I now put DS in his sleeping bag during the day (as a sleep association) which worked for us, and I found her routines interesting, truthfully as a guide only, but I moved my DS's morning nap later like she suggested and it encouraged him to sleep in longer in the morning (instead of waking at 4-5am!!!)

    I found Pinky McKays "Sleeping like a baby" suited my style perfectly! This one I would HIGHLY recommend

    To anyone planning on reading it - my advice is to read with an open mind, and not to follow it to a T, its way to regimented and babies don't come from the same mould, they are all different, just like us adults are! So take what hints might work for you, and ditch the rest

  6. #24

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    I agree with if you want to read it, just read with an open mind. I too did like this book, but what I liked about it is what I took from it that worked for me. And I can comment too much as I didn't read it all, just what parts I wanted to. The feeding times helped me & the routine but it never ruled my life, I'm acutally very social and was out & about most days. I got advice from the book re: sleep comforters that I thought was great.

    It's like any advice, you take what works for you...leave what does not etc. We could read soooo many books & they will all be different & everyone will have a different opinion. FWIW I only read it as it was given to me & parts worked for me. But I refuse to spend several $$$ on books that I may or may not like, so I borrow from the library or just go with my own feelings. And I've never left either child to CIO.

    Some books can put you off if you don't agree with the methods & that's a good indication that you have a feeling for what you want to achieve anyway & that way is not for you.

  7. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Heaven View Post
    That explains your other thread then LJ!!
    Heaven, snap! That's what I was going to say to LizJessie too!! about the mum's in her mothers group claiming the babies sleep through the night....

  8. #26

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    I have been in and out of various parenting forums just to catch up on other people I know who are on other forums and they all have threads about the devil and not one of them follow it to a T. Out of interest I read the threads about it, and they all rave about it, but every single one of them make adjustments here and there so if you actually sat down and thought about it, none of them are following it at all and the ones who do try to follow it verbatim give up because it is either too hard to stick too or they realise that their babies just don't like CIO methods. And to be fair, not all babies thrive in an attachment parenting routine either - the babies dont read the same parenting books that we do and thats why you will rarely find a child that is able to be put into a strict method of parenting, be it TH or Truby King methods, Continuum Concept or Dr Spock, without bending the rules a little bit, if you do have a child that perfectly fits with your philosophy that's wonderful, but the majority wouldn't I don't think. Personally while I don't like TH's methods in regards to CIO or extinction crying I think that having a routine to your day is beneficial, just not her routine LOL. I also believe that wearing your baby is awesome, but that co-sleeping is something I have only ever done out of necessity.

    I honestly do think that her books are a great waste of money, but if anyone thinks that they might like to read it, do read it with an open mind like others have said because maybe there could be one or two tips that will help you out, but to give yourself a rounded 'education' check out other books as well.

  9. #27

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    i have a copy if anyone wants it as a doorstop... LOL
    DD doesnt stay awake long enough to fit even thier newborn routines...still at 9 months she struggles to stay awake more than 2 hrs at a time unless we are out at the shops or something like that. and she doesnt call it CC in the book but it sure is...i remember one part says 'how long should i leave my child to cry?' and the answer is 'as long as you can stand hearing it' (or something to that effect) HRMMMM is all i can say!!

  10. #28

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    I have been pondering this for awhile. If you have to change something so much to make it work for you, then are you really following the book?

    Take, for example, making a pavlova. You need to have the oven on and need eggs. But what if after you turn the oven on and get out the eggs, you decide that rather than separating the eggs you will use whole ones. Instead of sugar, you use mince, then put it in the oven. You end up with a meatloaf. Now a meatloaf is nothing like a pav, but they do both use ovens and eggs.

    That is how I see many of the posts that are praising SOS, there is so little of the original recipe left to be promoting.

  11. #29

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    LOL Astrid!
    I hate seeing this stupid book in shops, I always cover it up with Elizabeth Pantley or Pinky McKay or something.

  12. #30

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    Tizzie Hall is a bit strict for me. Some of her ideas may and I say may work. Have a GF doing it and it seems to be working for her, well sort of.
    On saying that I let my DD do what she wants with feeds and sleeps during the day as she is sleeping all night without any tears when she goes down, could be just her though, she is a very easy going little girl
    I am big fan of Robyn Barker, she is pretty practcial in her approach to all things baby, breastfeeding and so on.

    Good luck...you will get your own rythym. If you are interested in having a read of Save our Sleep I would reccommend trying to borrow it out of your local library before purchasing it.

  13. #31

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    oh Astrid...THATS HILARIOUS!!!!! well put!!!!

    Heaven - she has also written a new one for toddlers....pffft! saw it in the book store yersterday. i should have hidden it!

  14. #32

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    Just putting my two bob in... I've actually found the book great for my DS. I've found a structured routine has been gerat for him, as he sleeps great during the day and all night (touch wood) I never followed her routines until my bub was probably 3months old, I didn't like all the "express left side 25mins then feed on right side for 15mins blah blah", but the routines for older babies was good for us. In saying that, I think my DS has benefited but I've found it HAS limited my social life. I tend to watch the clock, needing to get home at a certain time to have him in bed etc and that is quite limiting, and kept me pretty house bound.
    But each to their own....

  15. #33

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    I used this on my older 2. It was heart-wrenching listening to them scream. Now with #3 I have finally figured out that intuition is the best parenting manual to follow. DD3 is quite settled and has been breast fed for longer, and is quite happy over all.

  16. #34

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    Just heard that Tizzie Hall will be at the Melbourne Baby Show this weekend march 5-7 to answer any questions...

    She was just on the Kerri Anne show...wow..."if the child gets out of bed and comes to yours, say "mummy/daddy are sleeping" then shut the door on them.. .because if you walk them back to bed they see it as a REWARD..DON'T reward this behaviour"...

    OMG

    SOOOOOooooo ladies....what you YOU ask/say if you could??....maybe someone that sees this will have the opportunity to be enlightened...

  17. #35

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    Oh boy In wish I was going and was a good speaker ...I would ask her loads of Q about why on earth you would let your baby cry even if it is going agaisnt all the instincts in your body, also why she feels the need to train babies...you train dogs love not babies, hmmm and maybe throw her the science of parenting book so she can be educated properly
    I feel for all the babies whose mummies wil wtach KAK and go to the expo and then ignore their instincts as a mummy and let theor beautiful precious baboes cry Send Pinky instead
    Sorry rant over lol

  18. #36

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    I hired this book out from the library after one of the mums from MG recommended it. (I later found out that she was only following parts of it).

    I nearly cried reading this book and felt sick even thinking about all the natural parenting the book tries to take away from mothers just to have their babies sleep through. Now I admit I was reading this book because I was (am ) sick of broken sleep but have come to somewhat except things for what they are. I try not to look at the clock when Olive wakes and I remind myself that this will not last forever. I bring my baby into my bed with a warm heart not regret and cuddle her close. relishing this special time before she outgrows this phase or she has a sibling and things change.

    SoS does not support breastfeeding and a close bond between mother and baby during this time but instead
    expressing. As someone who had to EE I can tell you that breastfeeding is something to be enjoyed not spending time infront of a pump when you don't need to be and have the you ability to give your baby milk from your breast.
    I also found it extremly unnerving that TH doesn't believe in teething, what a cop out. She has obviously never had a wisdom tooth come through! It fits quite nicely into her routine to say that teething babies don't need any extra comfort when I think it's clearly obvious that they do (well mine did).
    The routines were so structured that there is no way that I as a working mother could adapt them and expect my babies other carers to do the same.
    The whole thing I felt was written my an old school marm type who wasn't trying to help you but telling you THIS IS HOW IT HAS TO BE NO IF"S OR BUTS!!!

    Anyway needless to say I didn't find the book helpful at all but thats not my style of parenting. I did however love Elizabeth Pantleys No Cry Sleep Solution for Toddlers and Preschoolers and this has helped to get Olive self settling and to develop routines that fit in with our family culture. I felt her style of writing wasn't condesending as TH's was and I think her love of children was apparent.

    Abit all over the place sorry.

    ETA I didn't mean for this to sound unsupporting of mums who do use these types of methods, this is simply my opinion so sorry if I have offended anyone.
    Last edited by Crystalwings; March 5th, 2010 at 11:14 AM.

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