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Thread: Tizzie Hall routines

  1. #19

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    Come on girls- our government also has laws stipulating the part of a child's body that may be smacked and the method of smacking that is appropriate... I do believe such laws used to exist for slaves too but that's way too back in the dark ages to be considered appropriate now.

    I'll have to have a read of these Tizzie Hall comments- doesn't sound like she's up my alley...



    Edited to add: Just had a quick look and had to say Oi Kelly! Not all childless child care workers have wierdo things to say about caring for children.

  2. #20

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    Yeh I know ren ... just amazing how many of them write books and get fame and fortune writing things like this! Anyone could write a book and be an expert it seems.... not good!
    Kelly xx

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  3. #21

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    Thanks for the link Kelly. I've rated it but will take my time formulating a feedback post that eloquently states my opinion that the article is complete crud. Wouldn't want them to miss my point. I also really would like to strongly question their assertion that babies as young as 6 months can learn to vomit on command in order to manipulate their poor unsuspecting parents.

    I see it's rating 2 stars atm. Wow, there must have been those who voted positively for babies vomiting in distress.

  4. #22

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    2 stars = poor, so I'd say that doesn't sound like approval for letting babies vomit.

    I actually looked at that website last week and was appalled at the instructions on it - no mention that there may be altenative (kinder) ways of doing things. Just developing my comment now.

  5. #23

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    I'm not sure if this is a little off-topic, but it does follow on from something mentioned in previous posts and also the old thread that was referred to...

    My question is, does someone have to be pregnant/have children to be considered a reliable source of information about pregnancy, birth and/or children?

    I am a health professional who works with pregnant women and their children. I don't have children myself and I have to say I took a little offence to some of the phrasing used by previous posters when referring to childless carers/experts/professionals etc.

    Obviously I haven't experienced first-hand the exertion, exhaustion and exhilaration of pregnancy, birth and mothering, but does that mean my advice is worth less than someone who has?

  6. #24

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    Nope not at all - but when it's bad advice, leading to things like failure to thrive etc then it is. When routines from these 'experts' cannot take into account the hormonal attachments that women feel to their children/babies and think they are going to be able to not look into babies eyes at night, watch them vomit without comfort and only feed them when the clock says, then that is completely inappropriate in my eyes. The discussion was about a particular expert, and about claims the expert was making and questioning that, so its not a sweeping statement and I didn't say all... but it is ironic that most of the 'baby experts' or 'baby whisperers' who are making shed loads of money telling mothers how to get sleep at night (who wouldn't pay millions for the magic answer) have no children and have experience as a nanny - a role in which you can be more firm and hardlined because you have no emotional attachment to the child like a mother would. I think they prey on tired, exhausted and unsupported mums to the detriment of our children's health, but little do we know it... for some it appears to work but the research in cortisol in babies brains left to cry it out is of concern. Do they care? Nup, where's your credit card thanks?! It's not even based on research, yet women will only choose a qualified Obstetrician and want the best etc... wouldn't you want someone giving you qualified advice for your baby, from research or whatever?
    Last edited by BellyBelly; February 27th, 2008 at 12:30 PM.
    Kelly xx

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  7. #25

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    SJH, the "expert" being discussed in the thread is not a health professional or a mother. She has no qualifications in child care, child health etc AND she is not a mother. That is the basis of the comments regarding her credibility (well, that and her truly questionable advice!). You might not be a mother, but you say you are a health professional which I assume means that you have qualifications, or at the very least some training. Therefore don't worry, the comments are not relevant to you .

  8. #26

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    I think the hardest thing for parents to discern is the motivation behind the advice, books, articles etc. While I would definitely say that I am a critical-thinker (the "don't-believe-everything-you-see/read/hear" type) I do think that alot of the people doling out some of the, at best, erroneous advice really do believe that what they are advising works and will make for good routine,nutrition,intelligence, the list goes on.

    I think research is also a tricky subject as a basis for "proving" methods. Just look at the stats for interventions in some hospitals and by some obstetricians but with volumes of medical journals behind them, many women never question whether these interventions were really, truly necessary (NB: am not debating homebirth vs hospital vs obstetrician vs midwife, just illustrating a point). On the other side of the coin, so many women find relief from naturopathic and homeopathic support during birth but the amount of research/studies into these methods pales in comparison to the more medicalised forms of assistance.

    I'm not arguing with anyone, just wanted to say that "expert" is a bit of a subjective title and research sometimes has it's own agendas. In the end, it's up to all of us to go make up our own minds about what we see, hear, read and post

  9. #27

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    MR - Snap! We posted at the same time. Yes I do have qualifications. However sometimes all that means is that someone knew how to study books and sit exams. What I really hope is that everyone asks alot of questions about any advice they are given and makes up their own mind

  10. #28

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    I question anyone whose advice is only available by paying a certain amount of $$ for every individual article on their website. Even our poor cash-strapped ABA has a free helpline for mothers and need I point out all the wonderful articles available on BB - from those who truly are experts?!

    Also anyone who claims they just have a 'gift' with babies and whose experience seems to stem from walking babies in prams around the block when they were eight.... Especially when said walking never led to any formal qualification in child care/health/etc/etc.

  11. #29

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    I think the problem with these methods is that they 'work'. The Tizzie Hall routines and the Supernanny naughty corner etc. appear to work in that they create the desired effect in appearing to have a 'settled' child. When in actual fact what you have is a 'controlled' child. I'm not sure that the problem lies in the promoters of these methods not being mothers, but rather that they have chosen to endorse a system without further educating themselves and finding out why it works and whether it's actually producing a desirable outcome.

  12. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by ren View Post
    I think the problem with these methods is that they 'work'.
    Sometimes, not always. Particularly with babies. There are more failures with controlled crying than successes. Not that I disagree with the point of your post Ren!

  13. #31

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    I know what you mean Sarah and it's frustrating because take a medical example, it depends what research the Obs choose to read. There is STACKS of research about the benefits of delayed cord clamping dating years back right up to 2007, but so many Obs are still sprouting that it is more dangerous leaving it to clamp, in case of jaundice etc, when all their objections have been dismissed by the studies, including the WHO. And also hospitals refuse to adopt the policies like delayed clamping... it's a joke! Best care? Or best defensive/convenient practice? There are many things that are not best for women and babies being practiced in this day and time, so now, more than ever, its so important for women to inform themselves and research to find out their own answers and make their own decisions.

    ps. I know what ren meant, they (controlled crying methods) do appear to work for some babies but studies show these babies have learnt to give up asking for help as they know the wont get it, and the concern is they will become submissive in personality and not voice their needs. A study in a parenting magazine found around 50% of mums had tried CC, and only around 5-8% said it had worked in the short term. So many professionals recommend something that 'works' for such a small percent of babies? Because no-one wants to hear that there is no quick and easy way to help your baby learn to settle. It takes time and trust.
    Last edited by BellyBelly; February 27th, 2008 at 02:55 PM.
    Kelly xx

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  14. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer13 View Post
    Sometimes, not always. Particularly with babies. There are more failures with controlled crying than successes.
    Oh, but it works eventually cause you're told to not back down and stay firm... so months down the line when your baby is more mature it will eventually work. And that's purely because you stuck with it of course. *sigh*

    (I'm not disagreeing with you either )

  15. #33

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    I haven't read her work myself but its pretty popular on other forums. I felt very uncomfortable personally when mothers talk about letting small babies cry for 40 minutes at a time - and that was before my baby arrived. Now that he is here I can't imagine letting him cry for that long. He cries because he needs me, because he is hungry or wet or uncomfortable, not because he wants to willfully destroy my sleep.

    Also, my primary concern at this point is breasfeeding, and I just don't see how a strict schedule would work for us - if he is hungry, he is hungry, and he shouldn't have to wait to eat.

    I'm pleased to realise that not everyone thinks that strict schedules and routines are the way to 'manage' babies - makes me feel more confidant in my decision to be baby-led at this time.

    ETA: What happened with Tizzie? Did she sue or did it all blow over?

  16. #34

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    my mchn suggested all the mothers in our group read tizzie's book 'save our sleep'. unfortunately 3 mothers went out and bought it and have been using it. i refused to read it, but flipped through it at a friend's place cos i wanted to see what she was suggesting. i didn't like what i was reading, especially as this was at the same time as i was reading all about cortisol releasing in 'the science of parenting'. i'm not really sure what my point is here, except to say that i am so glad i discovered bb and have been pointed in the right direction (pinky, margot sutherland). if i hadn't, i may have followed the inappropriate advice of the mchn.
    Last edited by Ginger; February 28th, 2008 at 09:40 PM.

  17. #35

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    How frustrating. At our breast feeding class last night our teacher recommended Pinky McKay and Margot Sutherland... I had a lot of respect for everything she had to say then

  18. #36

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    My MCHN said trying to schedule a newborn is setting yourself up for failure and frustration. She said the one she hates most is Gina Ford but she wasn't complimentary about Tizzie Hall either. She said if I want a reference book to try Baby Love but even thats hit and miss and that I'd be better off following Oliver's cues, which was our plan anyway. I like my MCHN

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