Bacon & Ham??

[sunshine_sieben]

2ndtimemum, interesting about the eggs. Where did you get that info from that eggs in Australia are pasteurised? Just wondering as my packet of Woolworths Select Eggs doesn't say anything about them being pasteurised. And I couldn't find any info to that respect in a quick online search either. I would be a little disappointed if they just don't state the fact whether they're apasteurised or not on the packet. Not that it's a bad thing, but I think the consumer should know... On milk it states that it has been homogenised and pasteurised.

About the soft cheese: Most cheeses (soft & hard) in Australia have been made with pasteurised milk which reduces (but doesn't eliminate) the risk when compared with soft cheese made from unpasteurised milk.

Saša

[Serenitylee]

I still eat bacon and ham occasionally. I think the MAIN thing to be careful of is if it is not very fresh.

[Toomanytoomany]

They just make me want to hurl, unfortunately. So no, I'm not eating them

[Serenitylee]

I wouldn't eat anything that made me feel sick or didn't look to appealing. I am very careful with what I eat and my appetite has changed a fair bit and some of my favourite foods just smell so bad now or I cringe when i see them. I am lucky to eat ham once a week IF that. Maybe once a fortnight. I only usually have it in sandwiches and as for bacon. I haven't had that in over 2 months It's fruit and vegies all the way for me!

[Ellee05]

2nd time mum - thats really interesting. And as you say most of the time the risk can be managed. I'm perhaps being extra cautious as I live in a community where the food quality/standard is nothing compared to the cities etc.

Thanks so much for all your replies, it really is an eye opener and I guess with bubs being a surprise package I didn't really have time to prepare/research for what I was in for, also I find a lot of information contradicting the next piece I read.

Hope you all feeling better soon. My worst time is from 530pm till I go to bed

[2ndtimemum]

2ndtimemum, interesting about the eggs. Where did you get that info from that eggs in Australia are pasteurised? Sa?a

I can't remember where I first read that information, I think it was the Australian Food Safe website... Although a quick search found me this: "The law requires that all egg products sold in Australia for consumption be pasteurized." from the public health of WA website.

[sunshine_sieben]

Mmmm, yes, I had found this type of information, too. But it talks about egg products, not whole egg in their shells. When I had a look around the net, the advice I found was to use pasteurised egg if you prepare foods that contain uncooked egg (eg. tiramisu) for the elderly or immuno suppressed. The site further stated that pasteurised whole eggs can be found at some supermarkets, suggesting, that most eggs are not pasteurised. I found that info on a few different australian sites.

So, I think if you buy ready made tiramisu in the desert section, they probably used pasteurised egg products to make it. But I doubt that the majority of fresh eggs are pasteurised...

Not exactly definitive information, but an indication nonetheless.

[2ndtimemum]

Mmmm, yes, I had found this type of information, too. But it talks about egg products, not whole egg in their shells. When I had a look around the net, the advice I found was to use pasteurised egg if you prepare foods that contain uncooked egg (eg. tiramisu) for the elderly or immuno suppressed. The site further stated that pasteurised whole eggs can be found at some supermarkets, suggesting, that most eggs are not pasteurised. I found that info on a few different australian sites.

So, I think if you buy ready made tiramisu in the desert section, they probably used pasteurised egg products to make it. But I doubt that the majority of fresh eggs are pasteurised...

Not exactly definitive information, but an indication nonetheless.

Whole eggs are classed as egg products.

"WHAT ARE EGG PRODUCTS?
Egg products are considered to be the content of egg, as part or whole, in liquid, frozen or dried form, liquid whole egg, mixtures of liquid (Includes egg yolk and liquid egg white, liquid egg yolk or liquid egg white)."

[sunshine_sieben]

All that it means is that it can be part of the contents, or the whole contents. But eggs in their shell are not classified as egg products.

[Oorki Galoorki]

wiki description of pasturisation

Pasteurization typically uses temperatures below boiling since at temperatures above the boiling point for milk, casein micelles will irreversibly aggregate (or "curdle"). There are two main types of pasteurization used today: High Temperature/Short Time (HTST) and Extended Shelf Life (ESL) treatment. Ultra-high temperature (UHT or ultra-heat treated) is also used for milk treatment. In the HTST process, milk is forced between metal plates or through pipes heated on the outside by hot water, and is heated to 71.7 ?C (161 ?F) for 15-20 seconds. UHT processing holds the milk at a temperature of 138 ?C (250 ?F) for a fraction of a second. ESL milk has a microbial filtration step and lower temperatures than HTST.[1] Milk simply labeled "pasteurization " is usually treated with the HTST method, whereas milk labeled "ultra-pasteurization " or simply "UHT" has been treated with the UHT method

so you cant pasturise an uncracked egg,,there fore runny eggs are still not a safe food for pg women to eat.

also in europe they would still be warning women of these risks becasue you can get raw milk and cheeses over there which are really high risk carriers of listeria

[sunshine_sieben]

There has been a process invented in the last 6 years or so that cn actually pasteurise a whole egg in the shell. It involves a warm water bath (I believe the temperature is controlled at 62 degrees).

How do you pasteurize a shell egg without cooking it?
It’s a combination of time and temperature. At National Pasteurized Eggs, Inc., we put our farm-fresh eggs through a giant all-natural water bath for just under one hour. The key is the preciseness of the computer controlled bath which ensures FDA standards for pasteurization, destroying the bacteria and viruses without cooking the eggs. The constant movement of our eggs and water while in the bath is a key component in assuring the eggs don’t cook.

What tests or verification do you use to be sure all eggs are pasteurized?
Pasteurization is a proven science that dates back to the reign of Napoleon. The patented technology used by National Pasteurized Eggs, Inc. has been specifically adopted to shell eggs. The time and temperature protocols and process steps, as well as pre and post pasteurization are all monitored by computer and all processes are verified and approved by Silliker Labs. All NPE facilities maintain detailed quality assurance and HACCP programs.

The eggs enter our patented pasteurization system where the carriers transport the eggs to our clean, warm water bath pasteurizer.
The eggs continue through the water bath where this mixture of exact time and temperature assures accurate pasteurization. The eggs are pasteurized to exceed a 5 log reduction of harmful bacteria or viruses without cooking the egg. The 5 log reduction of Salmonella is the regulated standard set by the FDA required for a product to be labeled pasteurized. The NPE patented process ensures that eggs meet and exceed this 5 log FDA requirement without cooking the egg.
The eggs move on automated carriers where they receive an optical check that identifies and removes all damaged or cracked eggs.
The eggs then are conveyed out of the bath and through an automatic waxing unit which applies a food grade wax protection over the shell. This wax acts as an additional seal to protect the egg from absorption of any cross-contaminants that otherwise could pass through the shell's thousands of open pores.
Next, the eggs receive a red Circle P stamp identifying them as pasteurized.
This finished product is then packed, moved to coolers and brought to below 45?F., and palletized for shipment.
The facility and production are managed under controlled HACCP procedures adhering to defined SOP’s and GMP’s and Circle U Kosher approval standards. The facility and process are inspected and certified by USDA and Silliker Labs and approved by the FDA.
The total pasteurization process above results in destruction of bacteria and viruses inside and outside the shell, preserving freshness and taste as well as significantly extending the shelf life of the eggs.

But it seems to me that these eggs are hard to come by unless you buy them from a commercial food supplier. They are also more expensive than regular eggs.

I am European (German) and my sister-in-law and also a good friend have just recently had babies over there. No, they do not advise against eating soft cheese or deli meats in general. They do advise against drinking unpasteurised milk or eating cheese and other dairy products which have been made with unpasteurised milk.

By the way, you can buy unpasteurised and unhomogenised milk here in Australia, too. My health food shop across the road sells it sometimes. They call it "Cleopatra's Bath Milk".
I used to drink it while at my parent's house (in Germany) last year. it is divine. Tastes so much nicer than the treated mik. And with modern hygiene standards, it is not as dangerous as it used to be. Pasteurisation does destroy some of the more delicate nutrients and some of the flavour does get lost. However I wouldn't drink it now that I am pregnant, to be on the safe side. Unpasteurised, unhomogenised milk has a shelf life of only 2 days, so it is probably not a very practical thing for everyday use.

Saša

[Neenee Jellybeanie]

About listeria; I've worked in delis before and the hygene standards of the staff are not always perfect (my deli was a particularly good one but it really depends on the staff handling the meat at the time). Even when products are actually being processed (bacon and such), the standards are high IN THEORY but at the end of the day, it's the staff who need to implement the policies and they often don't. E.g. I know someone who worked at a meat processing factory and some of the people working there would eat bacon (arguing that it's partly cooked like ham, lol!) while working. I used to work at a shellfish processing factory and we only ever washed our boots and used the correct entrances on the day the health inspector was due. Again, people would eat lobster while working. Obviously eating while processing food is unhygenic and things like this happen all the time. I don't know, I guess my point is that while we theoretically have high standards, it often is not that way in practice.

[Ellee05]

Good point Neenee Jellybeanie. I also heard the other day that to never buy marinated or crumbed meat as it is all the old stuff that they use to do it. Don't know if it is true but makes some sense so will be avoiding that! (pregnant or not!)

[Neenee Jellybeanie]

Good point Neenee Jellybeanie. I also heard the other day that to never buy marinated or crumbed meat as it is all the old stuff that they use to do it. Don't know if it is true but makes some sense so will be avoiding that! (pregnant or not!)

That's true. When I worked in the deli we would cube up all the ham left on the bone and put it in our potato salad. We never used anything that was expired though I don't know about other delis (we had very high standards for everything as we were a gourmet deli).

[sunshine_sieben]

Yep, I'm sure some don't even wash their hands after going to the loo.

Just one quick thing about the bacon being partly cooked, so they argued it was ok to eat (I guess this comment didn't refer to pregnant people): meat doesn't need to be cooked to be ok to eat. Prosciutto isn't cooked (apart from prosciutto cotto). Neither is salami (well, there are a few spacialty "cotto" cooked Salami varieties).
Bacon and ham are both cured, some are also smoked. So really, eating bacon raw is not much different than eating ham, it's just a different cut.

Although you are definitely right about eating while working with food being unhygienic, this doesn't really relate to listeria. The listeria bacteria is mainly found in soil and stream water. It can then be transferred to plants and lifestock. You can contract listeria by eating unwashed vegetables, gardening. And of course by eating the meat of infected animals or through cross-contamination.

Saša

[LimeSlice]

Just wanted to bust some myths and explain some questions here:

1 WHOLE EGGS and ALL egg derivatives are PASTURISED by law in Australia.

2 ALL milk and milk products sold in Australia (including soft cheeses) are pasturised, by law.

3 HAM SALAMI PROSCUITTO etc are ALL COOKED. The process that cures the meat COOKS it. So hence, HAM< BACON, SALAMI, etc can ALL be eaten RAW. The danger comes from incorrectly handled or meats that are contaminated in the first instance. HEATING will kill listeria if it heated above 70 degrees and eaten immediately.

4 You CAN contract listeria frm unwashed vegetables and fruits, hence why some drs recommend not eating salad sandwiches etc from anywhere but your own home where you have washed the products yourself, and not eating them after 24 hours o preperation.



The only exceptions to these statements are the recent introduction of the availablility of unpasturised and unhomogenised soft cheeses and milk products, usually only boutique products, not available at your local supermarket, and they must be labeled as such.

There are certain deli meats, like salamis, that are unsafe not only as they are deli meats but because of the products from which they are made and how they are made. if you google "how to make home-made salami" you should come up with some pretty eye-opening information. It is not for the light of stomach! I steer clear of all salamis because of this fact.
However, as I said, so long as the hams etc are FRESHLY sliced and opened, stored correctly and cut on properly cleaned machinary (at home or store bought) you should be fine.
Obviously if you have any unuasual or special complications with your pregnancy any risk food should be avoided.


Oh, and as a side note, if you go to a deli or sandwich bar or such, always ask the attendant to remove their gloves and replace them with new ones. Gloves actually spread more disease than your hands do if they are not changed with every customer, ESPECIALLY if the attendant is also handling money.


Hope this helps clear up some misconceptions I have seen in this thread.