thread: Doplers - good or bad?

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  1. #1
    Registered User

    May 2005
    Melbourne
    467

    I personally think getting a doppler is a bad bad idea. If you are really keen to hear heartbeats etc, you could look into getting a stethoscope perhaps. You can get them online fairly cheaply. They won't harm your babe or yourself. PLUS the sound is really different and much cooler, in my opinion.

    Anyway, there is heaps of info available discussing the dangers of not just ultrasounds, but also hand held dopplers (more so actually)

    Here are some articles that might be of interest.

    E-News 8:2 - Prenatal Ultrasound
    E-News 8:2 - Prenatal Ultrasound

    Prenatal Ultrasound

    It is ironic that women who have had previous miscarriages often have additional ultrasound examinations in order to "reassure" them that their baby is developing properly. Few are told of the risks of miscarriage or premature labour or birth.

    Obstetricians in Michigan studied fifty-seven women who were at risk of giving birth prematurely. Half were given a weekly ultrasound examination; the rest had pelvic examinations. Preterm labour was more than doubled in the ultrasound group?52%?compared with 25% in the controls.(1) Although the numbers were small, the difference was unlikely to have emerged by chance.

    A large randomized controlled trial from Helsinki randomly divided more than 9,000 women into a group who were scanned at 16 to 20 weeks compared with those who were not. It revealed 20 miscarriages after 16 to 20 weeks in the screened group and none in the controls.(2)

    A later study in London randomized 2475 women to routine Doppler ultrasound examination of the umbilical and uterine arteries at 19 to 22 weeks and 32 weeks compared with women who received standard care without Doppler ultrasound. There were 16 perinatal deaths of normally formed infants in the Doppler group compared with 4 in the standard care group.

    It is not only pregnant patients who are at risk, however. Physiotherapists use ultrasound to treat a number of conditions. A study done in Helsinki found that if the physiotherapist was pregnant, handling ultrasound equipment for at least 20 hours a week significantly increased the risk of spontaneous abortion.(3)

    The Saari-Kemppainen study also revealed the lack of value in early diagnosis of placenta praevia. Of the 4000 women who were scanned at 16 to 20 weeks, 250 were diagnosed as having placenta praevia. When it came to delivery, there were only four. Interestingly, in the unscanned group there were also four women found at delivery to have this condition. All the women were given caesarean sections and there was no difference in outcomes between the babies. Indeed, there are no studies that demonstrate that early detection of placenta praevia improves the outcome for either the mother or the baby. The researchers did not investigate the possible effects on the 246 women who presumably spent their pregnancies worrying about having to undergo a caesarean section and the possibility of a sudden haemorrhage.

    There has been inadequate research into the potential long-term effects. Measuring the outcome of any intervention in pregnancy is very complicated because there are so many things to look at. Intelligence, personality, growth, sight, hearing, susceptibility to infection, allergies and subsequent fertility are but a few issues that, if affected, could have serious long-term implications, quite apart from the numbers of babies who have a false positive or false negative diagnosis. Because a baby grows rapidly, exposing it to ultrasound at eight weeks can have different effects than exposure at, for example, 10, 18, or 24 weeks. This is one of the reasons the effects of potential exposure are so difficult to study. Women are now exposed to so many different types of ultrasound: Doppler scans, real-time imaging, triple scans, external fetal heart-rate monitors, hand-held fetal monitors. Unlike drugs, whereby every new drug must be tested, the rapid development of each new variation of ultrasound machine has not been accompanied by similar careful evaluation by controlled, large-scale trials.

    Despite decades of ultrasonic investigation, no one can demonstrate whether ultrasound exposure has an adverse effect at a particular gestation, whether the effects are cumulative or whether it is related to the output of a particular machine or the length of the examination. How many exposures are too many? What is the mechanism by which growth is affected? ? It should not be forgotten that numerous studies on rats, mice and monkeys over the years have found reduced fetal weight in babies that had ultrasound in the womb compared with controls. Nor should it be forgotten that in the monkey studies the ultrasound babies sat or lay around the bottom of the cage, whereas the little control monkeys were up to the usual monkey tricks. Long-term follow up of the monkeys has not been reported. Do they reproduce as successfully as the controls? And, as Jean Robinson has noted, "Monkeys do not learn to read, write, multiply, sing opera, or play the violin." Human children do, and perhaps we should consider seriously whether the huge increases in children with dyslexia and learning difficulties are a direct result of ultrasound exposure in the womb. Furthermore, when a woman is scanned her baby's ovaries are also scanned. So if the woman had seven scans during her pregnancy, when her pregnant daughter eventually presents years later at the antenatal clinic, her developing baby will already have had seven scans. Do women really know what they consent to when they rush to hospital to have their first ultrasound scan, then trustingly agree to further scans?

    ? Beverley Lawrence Beech
    excerpted from "Ultrasound: Weighing the Propaganda Against the Facts,"
    Midwifery Today Issue 51
    and Dr Sarah J Buckley has a great article also

    Ultrasound Scans- cause for concern

    There is also a really lovely article written by Emma Lewis... the article is called 'Heart beats or heart messages'. It was Published in The Mother magazine Issue 16 Winter 2005/2006, Sorry I can't find a link for you.... but I can cut and paste it for you if you want. It has some interesting thoughts about why we are so keen to check up on my babes rather than just trusting in our bodies.... and also some info about how doppler use and scans can cause silent bleeds which are of even more concern if you are a Rh negative blood type.

    hope these help you come to a peaceful decision.

  2. #2
    Registered User

    Apr 2007
    Inner South East suburbs Melbourne
    1,213

    Thank you for that information, Laura.

  3. #3
    Registered User
    Add Evie76 on Facebook

    Jan 2007
    SA
    1,086

    Sounds like a stressful implement.

  4. #4
    Registered User

    Sep 2008
    Adelaide
    3,201

    Erin, I bought an angel sounds doppler from ebay for about $35 - you use it with a bit of baby oil to conduct the sound, we heard babies heart beat from about 11 weeks and always find the heartbeat pretty easy, but thats just my experience.

    I've found it reassuring as we have an IVF pregnancy and I worry alot, but I only use it about once a week as now I can feel bubs moving about. I did um and arr about buying it was was worried it wouldn't always pick up the heartbeat and I'd worry more, but for us this hasn't been an issue.

    The angel sounds one also allows you to plug it into your PC microphone outlet and then you can record the heartbeat to send to family or friends etc, which is pretty cool

    Its one of my best buys since pregnant

    Hope this helps
    Naomi

  5. #5
    Registered User

    Apr 2008
    Hunter Valley
    301

    I have hired one from First Beats for $40 a month - it is reassuring to be able to hear bubs' hb especially because I lost my first bub at 8 weeks, but the hardest part is not using it all of the time! I quizzed my midwife about the safety of them, and she said that nothing has been proven in terms of them being unsafe, but she wouldn't recommend using it more than once a week (if that). I have also found that even at nearly 18 weeks, I don't always find bubs' hb straight away - so if you are a born 'stresser' like I am, you need to be able to stay calm and not freak out if bubs' is hiding

  6. #6
    Registered User

    May 2005
    Melbourne
    467

    I quizzed my midwife about the safety of them, and she said that nothing has been proven in terms of them being unsafe,
    hmmmm that's what they said about cigarettes too.

    You can purchase beautiful pinard stethoscopes online (just google)....then you can listen to your belly baBe all day long and not cause any damage at all!! Pinard Stethoscope
    Last edited by luscious Laura; January 16th, 2009 at 04:41 PM. : link removed please read forum guidlines

  7. #7
    Registered User

    Apr 2007
    Inner South East suburbs Melbourne
    1,213

    hmmmm that's what they said about cigarettes too.
    And personally I prefer the cautionary approach - expecting things to be proven safe, rather than being happy with them not yet having been proven otherwise!

  8. #8
    Registered User

    Apr 2008
    Hunter Valley
    301

    hmmmm that's what they said about cigarettes too.
    Bit rough comparing the history of cigarettes to a doppler, but each to his own I suppose. I don't feel that I am putting my child at risk by using it, after losing my last bub it's the last thing that I would do. Many others on BB have used them in previous pregnancies and are using them again now - but once again each to his own

  9. #9
    Registered User

    Mar 2007
    Paradise
    4,473

    hmmmm that's what they said about cigarettes too.

    You can purchase beautiful pinard stethoscopes online (just google)....then you can listen to your belly baBe all day long and not cause any damage at all!! Pinard Stethoscope
    Laura - Cigarettes were never recommended in pregnancy. They were only ever recommended for nervous disorders like Parkinsons disease as nicotine is a nerve relaxant. Ultrasounds have been used far longer than cigarettes were recommended for.

    Personally I have tried to fiind a HB with both. With a stethescope I found it much harder to find bub's HB than I did with a doppler, which is why the medical profession now use them. In later pregnancy a doppler is used weekly and it does help the medical profession to find out if there is anything wrong. I am not saying that the medical profession are always right but knowing early does save lives if something is going wrong.

    In terms of physics, Sound waves (including infra and ultra) are not as intense as many other wavelengths. Light is more intese than sound!! Sound waves are not dense enough to cause harm any more than normal light (UV is the highest level of light and that is what the damage starts at) If you shone an extremely bright light on your belly I think you would have as much chance of injuring the baby as you would putting a doppler on. There is very little risk identified because there is very little risk!! An Xray which is the way twins used to be determined is more harmful than an US so I am happy to have US and doppler as often as I need / want to.

  10. #10
    Registered User

    Oct 2007
    Caroline Springs
    2,341

    Like Naomi, I bought an Angel Sounds doppler off ebay pretty cheap and we were able to hear our baby's heartbeat from 11 weeks. Until our little one started kicking (constantly, lol) I was using the doppler maybe once or twice a week for about 1-2 minutes each time. We were pretty cautious "just in case" so wouldn't use it for long. We were able to find the heartbeat every time we used it without much difficulty and we loved that you can plug two sets of headphones into it, or plug it into the computer so that you can hear it out loud. We also loved that you could record it on the computer so you could share it with family and friends.

    I definitely found that it lowered by anxiety level after having lost an angel. Even with my morning sickness and all the other pregnancy symptoms, I still had moments of doubt and fear, and listening to that wonderful "thump thump" was amazing

  11. #11
    Registered User

    Apr 2007
    Inner South East suburbs Melbourne
    1,213

    In terms of physics, Sound waves (including infra and ultra) are not as intense as many other wavelengths. Light is more intese than sound!! Sound waves are not dense enough to cause harm any more than normal light (UV is the highest level of light and that is what the damage starts at) If you shone an extremely bright light on your belly I think you would have as much chance of injuring the baby as you would putting a doppler on. There is very little risk identified because there is very little risk!! An Xray which is the way twins used to be determined is more harmful than an US so I am happy to have US and doppler as often as I need / want to.
    Sound waves can also cause glass to shatter, and beach whales

    Light doesn't travel as intensely through the stomach wall and uterus, either.

    Ultrasound has a thermal affect on tissue and penetrates internally to that tissue - that's why it is used in physiotherapy, not simply as an imaging tool. There have been concerns raised about the effect of this stimulation particularly on the development of the foetal nervous system.

    I have looked long and hard for good longitudinal studies or good, large double blind studies done on the safety of ultrasound exposure, and have not found convincing evidence for its safety. Bearing that in mind, my own preference is to keep it for strictly clinically necessary examinations. For a woman who is extremely anxious about her pregnancy (and stress is a known risk factor for pregnancy) this may indeed qualify as a clinical necessity. I'd also however strongly recommend other methods for managing that anxiety and stress.