Do Japanese Women Eat Sushi, Do French Women Eat Soft Cheese/Pate

[Bathsheba]

ETA: I hadn't read the whole thread when I posted this.... sorry.

I followed my gut with foods and I found it served me well. One occasion I looked at a whole table of food and just went I can't eat any of that. I was right, everyone else got food poisoning. I was 6 weeks pregnant at the time and very thankful I went with my initial reaction to seeing the food. I still ate what I wanted after that, but always followed my instinct, so sometimes I would have sushi and other times the look of it turned me off.

That's how I was as well with all 3 pregnancies. Sometimes there is false security in blindly following rules and not actually being educated. There is a difference. I think we would all agree that you could follow the food-types rules and still contract listeria or salmonella. It's just like Astrid said: you have to THINK about the hygiene and history of foods as a PRIME consideration as to whether it's safe.

I have worked in commercial kitchens and have training as to safe and hygienic food handling practises. This serves me far better than a food group list. Example: I would and have eaten a soft cheese that I have unwrapped from an air tight packet that was within "used by" dates. I would not eat the same cheese if it was unwrapped at an unknown point in time. My logic also works as Fiona put it... French women still eat brie when pregnant etc.

ETA: Ok... I am considering deleting this post because after reading the whole thread it might be a bit inappropriate to share my thoughts at this point of the discussion...

Um, Possibly one reason why I personally decided to take the risk in eating sushi and soft cheese during my pregnancies was because I don't eat red meat (mammals) and I think that perhaps I may have needed the extra protein...

[buliej]

I'm so happy to know these facts and that people share them on bellybelly - and add their insights and explanations. I would be devastated to find out I ate something that harmed my baby - and it would be worse if that something was known by few/some/many/all but me to carry a risk to a fetus. I under stand applying common sense about food handling as well - but I think this is as an added layer of protection - not "instead of" the foods that have been shown to potentially carry listeria or salmonella, etc. This information is put out there to serve and educate mothers-to-be - I'm thankful for it and for the progress of science generally - both in terms of understanding better what may impede the delivery of a happy and healthy baby..and in my case, hopefully even giving me the ability to have a baby.

Of course, if I read on the internet for the first time about a food being bad and it didn't jive with anything else I knew, I'd look into it/ask my dr or midwife to make sure it wasn't something like an old wives' tale.

Also, Flowerchild - I am glad you mentioned that about pasteurizing - I can easily see thinking that something was pasteurized and therefore not a risk - even though now that I think about it more carefully, what you are saying seems almost obvious - but it wasn't to me!

[spooky]

Sorry if someone has already stated this ( I don't have time to read the whole thread) but unpasturised cheese IS available in Australia now - albeit limited and very expensive! Just keep this is mind if you choose to eat soft or blue cheese (and some hard now) that you can enquire as to wether or not unpasturised milk was used.

Grana and reggie are also made (in Italy so the real stuff) with unpasturised milk, but are then hard cooked (hot) so that is how this one slipped through the system.

It is illegal to make cheese with unpasturised milk in Australia so if this is a concern for you, support the local industry.

[Inanna]

Tootoomany -That's it in a nutshell really This isn't about right or wrong. It's about risks and deciding what you will do about it.

Again - my concern is that women need to know the FACTS in order to make informed choices -

[Janie]

Um, I find it interesting that people assume that Japanese women eat so much sushi they can't go without it (etc etc)! And the French with their cheese..........

I have no idea what they recommend in Japan these days to pregnant mothers, but I have a step mother who is Japanese, and also a chef. She would go weeks without eating sushi, it is not that big a part of daily life. (Goodness knows why, her sushi is devine LOL!). There are soooooo many other parts to Japanese cuisine, as I'm sure there are many other things for French women (who are pg) to eat other than soft cheese.

Fiona, if you're truly interested I can ask her next time we speak to ask her niece in Japan who recently had a baby.

[Bathsheba]

I know that French and Japanese cuisine is a lot more varied than these foods Fiona gave as an example... but I think her sentiments are (correct me if I'm wrong)... are that some cultures have food types and preparation methods that would make you assume their antenatal mortality should be skyhigh... but it doesn't appear to be... so, just in the spirit of staying on topic (and avoiding the debate that we've been having in here)... I wonder if some cultures (besides those in the Developing countries with their poor hygiene)... do the French and Japanese have higher mortality rates due to Listeria and other forms of food poisoning? Say... compared to Australia.

[Inanna]

I don't agree it would be sky high Bath...

Listeriosis is a risk but a small one. However, since the 80's when it was discovered that listeriosis causes stillbirth & miscarriage that is when the advice not to eat at risk foods was brought in. Its a precaution to be mindful of. Kinda like caffeine and alcohol. It wasn't known in the 60's/70's how harmful it can be to fetal growth/development/wellbeing... Does that mean we snub the knowledge just because our bodies crave a beer? Again, the answer to that question would be up to the individual woman. Let her have the knowledge - the facts and then make her choice for her body and her baby. But the key here is knowledge.

Stillbirth & miscarriage rates are high - if they can be reduced by not eating at risk foods that can only be a good thing (at least from my vantage point anyway).

So, it would be interesting to know what the rates of listeriosis related loss is in those countries. However, let's remember there is a little more to the French diet than soft cheese. Having also spent time in Japan - might I say Sushi wasn't really high on the diet... So that may in part answer the OP's question...

[Toomanytoomany]

do the French and Japanese have higher mortality rates due to Listeria and other forms of food poisoning? Say... compared to Australia.

I did find a study that suggested that better education and removal of listeria sources in foodstuffs have led to a significant decrease of listeria in France. So I guess we've made an assumption that the French are not routinely educated about or act on listeria risks that is not true! Here's the abstract if anyone is interested.

All I've been able to glean from Australian data is that the infection rates are less than a hundred per year, which is very, very low. I guess like the Reye's syndrome thing, it's a very rare occurrence that is nevertheless quite easy to prevent by following some simple guidelines about food.

[Bathsheba]

Thanks for finding that abstract TM.

I wasn't suggesting the rates were or weren't skyhigh... just pondering. Food preparation methods (like drinking unpasturised milk... not just soft cheese made from unpasterised milk etc is what I meant). there would be people here in Australia who own cows... and use the milk from them fresh... i guess this could be a risk too?

I'm not totally dismissive of the food recommendations BTW I definitely acknowledge the value of them... it's just that I've witnessed too many pregnant women taking greater risks in eating foods that are apparently OK... but I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole!!!! Like "Oh I know I can eat Cheddar cheese... I might just cut myself a piece despite the fact that I don't know how long it's been on this platter for... or whether the person that prepared the platter even bothered to check the used by date". Or women that eat crap food like KFC daily because "at least it's safe".

[Toomanytoomany]

Grana and reggie are also made (in Italy so the real stuff) with unpasturised milk, but are then hard cooked (hot) so that is how this one slipped through the system.

It is illegal to make cheese with unpasturised milk in Australia so if this is a concern for you, support the local industry.

I didn't realise that re the bolded cheeses. I'd love to have a go at making cheese one day. Do you know, the rind off a good smelly bit of grana padano makes the absolutely BEST flavouring for a hearty minestrone. Just chuck it in half an hour before serving. Yum.