immunisations

[principessa76]

most anti vaccine sites will be educational as we all get PRO vaccine stuff rammed down our throats from the moment we find out we are pregnant.. im yet to come across a doctor to say "you can have xyz with these ingredients in it by the way X is also commonly known as ABC which we all know is very toxic to humans, but you should still allow me to inject this directly in to your newborns body!" come on! doctors DO NOT tell the whole story.
my DS was uptodate until he turned 4 my DD has not had any vaccines. she has never had a communicable disease yet and she goes to childcare but of course it could only be her fault chicken pox, whooping cough has gone through there....
seriously look after your children, keep them healthy rather then pumping them full of crap "just in case"...

Sounds like a real conspiracy doesn't it? I don't think so. Doctors immunize their own children - do you REALLY think they would do this if it wasn't what they thought was the best thing for their child. Doctors should not be painted as the bad guys here. All doctors I know (both as friends and professionally) are wonderful caring people who have studied extremely hard to get where they are and go above and beyond for their patients and genuinely care. They're certainly not in it for the money.... for the amount they study and the hours they put in they don't earn anywhere near enough.

I am not going to express my personal opinion about immunization here. I will say that you need to be very careful when reading research articles and quoting them. In order to decide if research is credible you need to be able to critically analyze the data, how it was collected and the methods used in the research. Critiquing one research article takes several hours. In order to do this properly you need to have studied data and statistical analysis at university - as part of their many years of training GPs and specialists study this.

FWIW I questioned DS's paediatrician about MMR being linked to autism - I had watched a documentary about it several years ago and had some concerns. It was explained to me in great detail how that research was flawed. Although the findings "appeared" to show a link, how the data was gathered and analyzed by the researcher meant the results were meaningless.

[Rooey5]

LimeSlice, you're correct about flu vaccines (including the new swine flu vaccine apparently) being linked with GBS. I was one of the unlucky ones who developed GBS at the age of 10 following my annual flu vax. However, the specialist who treated me in Sydney told Mum and Dad the chances of contracting GBS are 15 in a million, and that risk does not increase if you have previously had GBS, and also that there is no definitive research to directly implicate vaccines to GBS.

He also said it's much better to get GBS when you're a child because you recover faster and more completely (I have no residual problems from GBS now, I did get aching legs and some fine motor skill loss for the first few years). Adult sufferers run the risk of cardiomegaly and tend to need respiratory support.

I believe the thinking is that if your body is fighting off an infection (as I had a tummy bug at the same time as I got the vaccine) then there is a very small chance your antibodies can go off on a tangent and begin stripping the myelin once they are done with the infection. In short, they forget that their job is done and start looking for something else to do.

Just out of curiosity, how many BB mums got the cervical cancer vaccines? That has also been linked to GBS.

[Oorki Galoorki]

i did not quote any research, i just said that no doctor tells you the whole truth so therefore there has to be some where that the information is available.
also with examining studies it is also very impotant to know who has paid for the research. there unfortunatley will be no unbiased information on either side, i just know i would rather play on the safe side and not inject artificial substances in to my childrens bodies. as well as keeping them healthy, active and looking after them when they are sick. im not the type of person that is a "just in case" parent.

[lisaandshaun]

Hi, thank you all for your imput into my immunisation post. We have decided to delay immunisations and only get our child vaccinated against a few main dieseases.

There is so much information out there both for and against immunisation and i am sure i have only just skimmed the top of it all. If any one has any other information which may be useful please share it.

Take care
Lisa

[traylee01]

i to am not goin to judge people, we vaccinated our daughter from day one she had no dramas at all with any, not even swelling to the arm.
But i am now pregnant wth number 2 and i also work in childcare.
i have bene informed not to work now as there are many kids out there who havent been vaccinated and pregnant people are at risk of catchign soemthing becuase of these children who have not had there shots.

this is annoying to me becuase i am only relief worker and i would love to take as much work as possible, but i just cant now as many kids could have wateva wrong with them rubella or something.

I think all parents have a choice, but to me this is like breast feeding over bottle feeding.
i no many people who were breast fed for 12months plus who have eveything wrong, asthma and exma etc, then i no people bottle fed who are healthy as can be.

i no i wont be gettting the influenza shot, for either of us.

but when this bub is born it will be getting its shots just like my daughter did as my husband is chronic asthmatic and cant afford to catch anything.

so i also agree with some people out there, that its not only your kids you have to worry about its also other peoples, you could be infecting other peoples sick babies or children by not getting ur child its shots, so maybe best not to place those kids in childcare to spread it. i always thought kids who werent immunised werent allowed at centres but boy was i wrong when they told me not worth the risk.

i think parents make there choices and they do what they think it right.

[Sammiejane]

Hey lisa - did you see the link i gave in a PP about delaying the immunisations and the schedule?
It is what we will follow with our next one.
HTH

Traylee - sorry that you are not able to work...
Mj is still BF and i am fully immunised against the things that she has not been immunised against or had as a child (MMR and chicken pox).. so i guess although i am not giving her the vaccine, she is getting my antibodies.

Children that are not immunised still have to be exposed to rubella, measles, mumps, chicken pox etc etc to catch it - so by not sending them to CC just because they might catch something and then spread it is a bit over the top IMO. Also by removing the right or access to CC if you do not immunise is not allowing parental choice - its a bribe then... i will let your child go to CC only if you immunise...

I am no totally against vaccinaing, i just dont feel that i should put something in my child that wont really work or have a full effect - i.e. MMR needs to be repeated at 5yrs - so this is when i will probably give it to MJ

[LimeSlice]

Traylee - but you are not worried about being with other adults, despite the fact the immunities from vaccinations like MMR are not life long, and most adults never get booster shots?

[Lulu]

Sounds like a real conspiracy doesn't it? I don't think so. Doctors immunize their own children - do you REALLY think they would do this if it wasn't what they thought was the best thing for their child. Doctors should not be painted as the bad guys here. All doctors I know (both as friends and professionally) are wonderful caring people who have studied extremely hard to get where they are and go above and beyond for their patients and genuinely care. They're certainly not in it for the money.... for the amount they study and the hours they put in they don't earn anywhere near enough.

By the same token a hell of a lot of Dr's choose not to immunise their children either.

You also have to look at the amount of money invested by the pharma companies - the equipment, the 'conferences', the meals, holidays - all under the guise of education of these dr's giving us advice. There are plenty of reports and information on this - freely available. It's nothing to spend THOUSANDS per dr in 'freebies' in return for prescribing their drugs.

I also read of a group of Dr's that refuse these bribes and fork out for their own equpiment - that's the kind of Dr I want to see.

[melbrodhi]

Hi Lisa

my DS is not immunised, it was not a decision i took lightly and i did alot of research before making that decision. DD who is due next week will also not be immunised.

i had always just assumed when i had kids i would go with the flow and vaccinate, but then whilst pregnant with DS i questioned why a newborn baby would need a Hep B shot and that started me off questioning and researching.

all of DS mates are immunised and strangely enough they seem to be constantly sick with colds, flu, ear infections etc etc while my DS isnt. coincidence? i have no idea, but it makes you wonder if their immune systems have been so compromised with all those shots that its left them open to every little bug around.

it has not been an easy road to take, prepare yourself for constantly having to defend your decision. i have been given a "lecture" many times by baby health nurses and doctors but have not given into pressure and have stood firm.

i do not judge parents that choose to vaccinate and i expect them not to judge me. all the mums i know respect my decision as i do theirs. we all have to do what we think is right for our kids.

the only thing that irks me is why do parents who vaccinate worry about their kids being around kids who are not vaccinated? i mean, isnt the whole aim of vaccination to not catch that disease? obviously if you vaccinate then you must have faith that it works, or you wouldnt do it, so why would you be worried? i dont and never will understand that.

good luck with whatever you decide!

[Rooey5]

the only thing that irks me is why do parents who vaccinate worry about their kids being around kids who are not vaccinated? i mean, isnt the whole aim of vaccination to not catch that disease? obviously if you vaccinate then you must have faith that it works, or you wouldnt do it, so why would you be worried? i dont and never will understand that.

I think the issue is, from talking to other mums, when they have a child with a chronic illness. That child can be immunised but still get very sick if they were to contract an infection or illness. I'm sure most people will acknowledge that immunisations are not meant to provide you with 100% immunity, rather they will lessen the severity of the illness if you do contract it. I was immunised fully due to a chronic illness, and I'll probably do the same with my child (as it will likely inherit my condition, being brittle asthma).

[willow5]

I think the issue is, from talking to other mums, when they have a child with a chronic illness. That child can be immunised but still get very sick if they were to contract an infection or illness. I'm sure most people will acknowledge that immunisations are not meant to provide you with 100% immunity, rather they will lessen the severity of the illness if you do contract it. I was immunised fully due to a chronic illness, and I'll probably do the same with my child (as it will likely inherit my condition, being brittle asthma).

Hi Rooey, I'm still undecided about vaccination but even if these parents have children that are fully vaxed due to chronic illness, they should be just as worried about their kids being around vaccinated kids, because as you said they are not always 100% covered, can still contract the diseases, and pass them on, so the logic is still not there, IYKWIM

[satya]

Before you make your final decision I suggest you go spend a week with a mum who is nursing a young child through one of the illnesses that the vacc's were invented to protect us from. You may well change your mind then.

I am currently nursing my 15 1/2 month old son through chicken pox. Yeah, yeah everyone says young kids get a mild dose. Not so. He is covered in spots - some of them are huge & very nasty. We are now on day 6 of the outbreak. He gets eczema so it's worse because of it. He now has a chest infection directly caused by the pox..... something else I did not know about chicken pox.... until it happened to my child. It is breaking my heart to see him like this when it can be prevented.

He is fully vaccinated but my neighbour's kids aren't. This particular vac was not available when her kids were younger. Both her younger kids got a dose of it & for one of them it was the second time she'd had it & she was absolutely covered from head to toe which also isn't supposed to happen the second time you get them. Their mother has pneumonia at the moment which is also probably linked to her kids having just got over pox..... she thinks she had a few spots as well even though she's had it before.

For the record when I was in my twenties I was completely against childhood vaccination but changed my mind as I got older. If I was still an anti vaxxer this last week would've well and truly changed my mind.

[Rooey5]

Hi Rooey, I'm still undecided about vaccination but even if these parents have children that are fully vaxed due to chronic illness, they should be just as worried about their kids being around vaccinated kids, because as you said they are not always 100% covered, can still contract the diseases, and pass them on, so the logic is still not there, IYKWIM

Yes, potentially that could be the case. However, as I mentioned earlier, vaccinated kids are less likely to become ill in the first place and if they do it will be a lesser form of the illness. Having a less severe form of the illness means you are less likely to pass it on to other vaccinated kids as they already have a degree of immunity.

Immunisations are meant to protect the community as a whole, but that does fall down when (I think) immunisation rates drop below 90%.

Satya, good point.

[LimeSlice]

Satya - Im confused - your son is fully vacc'd, still got the chicken pox and by your description is having a fairly severe case of it...so why would I vax my kids from an illness they can contract (or not) regardless, thus exposing them to the KNOWN side effects of the ingredients of the vaccine?

[willow5]

Before you make your final decision I suggest you go spend a week with a mum who is nursing a young child through one of the illnesses that the vacc's were invented to protect us from. You may well change your mind then.

I am currently nursing my 15 1/2 month old son through chicken pox. Yeah, yeah everyone says young kids get a mild dose. Not so. He is covered in spots - some of them are huge & very nasty. We are now on day 6 of the outbreak. He gets eczema so it's worse because of it. He now has a chest infection directly caused by the pox..... something else I did not know about chicken pox.... until it happened to my child. It is breaking my heart to see him like this when it can be prevented.

He is fully vaccinated but my neighbour's kids aren't. This particular vac was not available when her kids were younger. Both her younger kids got a dose of it & for one of them it was the second time she'd had it & she was absolutely covered from head to toe which also isn't supposed to happen the second time you get them. Their mother has pneumonia at the moment which is also probably linked to her kids having just got over pox..... she thinks she had a few spots as well even though she's had it before.

For the record when I was in my twenties I was completely against childhood vaccination but changed my mind as I got older. If I was still an anti vaxxer this last week would've well and truly changed my mind.

Hi Satya, I have 2 children already one is now 18 and one is 15, both fully vaccinated.
I have nursed them both through illness over the years including chickenpox, which my youngest got a nasty dose not unlike your son (vax not avail when they were young)

I have also nursed one of my children through a couple of nasty reactions after his vaccinations which I was told at the time was "normal" I'm not talking a bit irritable and soreness at the site, but high fever, listless in between fits of screaming and his whole little body stiffening up at the same time, as well as very swollen and sore at the injection site, reaction being worse after each vax. I kept vaxing because that's what you did and the docs said it was normal, even though my gut told me it wasn't and I felt awful knowing I was doing this to him.

Shortly after my son developed illnesses eg, ear infections chest infections and finally asthma, which saw me spending many nights in hospital watching him struggle to breathe so I know all about nursing sick children.
All this along with information I am only learning about now, including a possible link of vaccination and asthma is why I'm re-thinking the automatic vaccinations we do.
I'm researching as much as I can, and weighing up the possible risks for and against, for my child, with our family history.I will not be making my decision, whatever it may be lightly.
After going back through my partner's childhood illness history and his brother's, I have found some interesting problems there to make me more keen on gathering all the info I possibly can before making a decision either way.

What made you change your view on vaxing? I assume it wasn't just from the events of the last week or so? Just curious, as I too am questioning my stance when I was younger I'm always interested in others opinions and experiences. This just can't be a black and white issue, I don't think anyway.

Limeslice, another good point, and more for us all to think about.