SIDS book that will blow your mind....

[Bathsheba]

I can't give "Rep" on my phone so I just want to say (as a co sleeping mum of 3 live children) that your post was fantastic Maya! Well said

[Lolli]

I think there is always risks associated, with both co and cot sleeping. You have to weigh up the risks and benefits, dependant on your own circumstances. Iknow for me personally, the risks associated with SIDS and co-sleeping with DD were far outwieghed by the very really risk of developing severe PND, exasperated by sleep deprivation (we get more sleep in bed together. I don't handle sleep dep very well and had PND bordering on pyshcosis after ds was born, made much worse by getting up out of bed every hour and a half for the first six months of his life).

Just like any other issue, it is incredibly valuable to know all the info and all your options. You put what you know with what you need, and do what you think is right.

[Fleur]

I think there was a thread a while back - I can't recall what or where... that made the distinction between SIDS & suffocation as two different things.
A lot of the risk factors involving couches, sofas, and even co-sleeping in beds - are taking into account babies who were accidentally suffocated by their parents, sometimes with alcohol or drug use as a factor.
I think the subject of that particular thread was that co-sleeping when practised safely & properly actually reduces SIDS risk?

[JellyBean]

Hi all, sorry for the delayed response.
Firstly - I also agree with you wholehearedly Mayaness - and personally i find it a little offensive that we are told not to co-sleep with our children. I can't imagine how snooty we must sound to those people from less-developed nations who co-sleep with their babies and children because of culture, and also simply because they cant afford (let alone have access to) the pretty little bassinets and expensive cots that are the norm for us.
The book is NOT anti Co-sleeping.
The book is anti-mainstream medical establishment refusing to accept evidence-based research that strongly links (aka proves) the cause of SIDS (toxicity), whilst simultaneously perpetuating the apparent myth (and deep down in my soul I have always suspected it was a myth) that SIDS has no known cause, and preying apon the fear and concsience of parents in order to continue their multi-million-dollar profitable campaign each year for their groundbreaking 'research'. Where is the $$$ going??!!

We have men (and women!) walking on the moon since the 1970's, and we have sattelites orbiting the planet right now, and yet they expect us to seriously believe that they can't find a cause for why babies keep dying in their beds? Nonsense. These people do not deserve our money for their research that brings forth earth shattering information like - 'sleep babies on their back' hmpfftt. Myself, and (as i have now learned) many others out there do not believe they actually want to find a cause. So long as they can keep this silly charade going they might as well keep making big bucks from a naive and trustful public.
So, I think its time to take the matter into our own hands, and listen to those few individuals (true researchers, I believe) who are working their butts off against a sea of animosity (& money and white-coat power) in order to provide us parents with substantial sense-making information which can truely save lives.

I will be back in a minute to elaborate more- have to get DS lunch!! LOL.

[Inertia]

evidence-based research that strongly links (aka proves) the cause of SIDS (toxicity)

My neice had a brand new mattress in a brand new crib using brand new linen in a brand new dress - all in a near new house.

I simply cannot see how toxicity could have played any part in her passing. My sister is OCD about germs and cleanliness. She wouldn't even let my kids stay in the same room as her kids when we stayed with her.

And considering these toxic gasses "cannot be detected in post mortem exams" - its hard to called it proven.

My kids however have slept on my well used mattress. Daytime in their second hand cots. I am living in a house built in the 50s!

NONE of that can account for the babies who have passed from SIDS in car seats and their mothers arms.

That is WHY they are still researching. Because those cases contraindict a great deal of accepted folklore. 95% may pass in their bed yes, but the 5% that don't have to have that variable explained. The most logical one is that babies spend more time sleeping and most are put in their bed to do that.

It is like the statistic that most car accidents happen less than 5kms from your home. It is not because of any other reason but that most driving is done within 5km of your home! If people stopped using cots because of the cot death term and started using prams, before long it would shift the problem to prams.

From what I have read of the book it makes it sound like preventing SIDS is as easy as buying a new mattress every time you have another baby. I only wish it were true because then my niece would still be with us today!

[Talia*L]

It was my understanding that one of the main concerns / causes of 'toxic gasses' was NEW mattresses and bedding - with the plastics and chemical fumes?

I certainly won't be vaccinating til 2 years.

[Muppity]

Oh Please! I'm sorry that I don't have more time to respond to this post now.

The "sleep babies on their back" campaign more than halved the number of cot deaths in Australia each year. But yeah - I suppose that it was just an international conspiracy to try and get Mums and Dads to part with their well earned dollars.

Clearly the writers of the book have never actually had to apply for a research grant - trust me - there is no way that you do research into anything unless you actually believe in it - it just isn't worth the effort. Research scientists are some of the most lowly paid people in this country - most would earn more being a checkout operator and not using their years and years of university education.

[JellyBean]

The "dont sleep babies on their back" campaign more than halved the number of cot deaths in Australia each year.

Yes. I'm sorry if I downplayed this important factor. However, this truth supports the toxic gas mattress chemical link, and yet the medical establishment refuses to accept it as a valid or likely cause (or even a potential link), despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. I also want to say that the main doctor behind the toxic gas research is a chemist and forensic scientist. Therefore he is one of those people who are dedicated to their field and probably being paid pittance to do so. He has nothing to gain financially or professionally from educating parents about his research findings (other than save lives)- and he has been fighting an uphill battle with his own community of medicine for over a decade. He has even received death threats and yet he continues to push the truth as he knows it.

As a side note, I am only comfortable co-sleeping or sleeping my babies on their tummy because I have eliminated what I believe to be related risks of toxicity, however I would not feel comfortable encouraging another parent to do the same had they not addressed these issues first. I just wanted to make that clear.

[Inanna]

I haven't of course read this book & I want to acknowledge & empathise the pain and confrontion that may be felt by those that have lost a child or loved a child that was lost to SIDS...

Inertia I also am not sure about the "proven toxicity" & I am very interested to learn more about this book. However, I will share some of what I do know & my own personal experiences.

Firstly a new house is known to be far more "toxic" than an old one! This is because many of the materials that are used commonly to manufacture homes emit gases... Floor polishing, painting, the cabinetry are all known to emit toxic gases. Even lounge suites especially those that have beeen treated with stain proofing etc.

We know that these gases can trigger autoimmune responses in adults and children - so it does make sense that the same could happen (to my way of thinking) to a baby.

I personally had four children & then began to lose baby after baby after baby. It was discovered it was due to an autoimmune response & I had developed an "antiphospholipid like" illness... We know there is often a trigger for this. Also we know that often it occurs after someone has built a new house...

Of course it would be erroneous and rash (excuse the pun! ) to lay all of the reasons at the feet of these toxic emissions. However, there is enough concern that it raises lots of eyebrows. This chemical is formaldehyde and it is emitted from particle board, wood panel products etc. If you look around the average new home there are a LOT of these toxins being emitted. This is to name but one. But I believe it to be a big offender....

Many excited new parents buy new particle board furniture, recarpet and paint... These, unless a toxic free alternative is used are all carcinogens and toxic...

So, a new environment isn't necessarily a safer one...

The link with formaldeyde emissions and SIDS is not new - it's been suspected for a long time... As with other childhood and adult cancers & autoimmune issues. The rise in autoimmune disease has been substantial - some argue it can be related back to the introduction of the particle board products being used largely in house building and furniture building. Formaldehyde emissions from carpets, paints to name a few...

So, just wanted to add what I do know about this...

[Kirley64]

I would be very interested in reading the book. As a first time mum it is so confusing. Vaccinate or not, co-sleep or not, bassinett or cot, sids prevention etc etc.

I have personally been touched by a sids tradgedy.... my god son passed away in only july last year - he was 10 months old. He was a premmie baby and his mum smoked, he was also formula fed - which apparently increases the chances....he was a healthy happy baby though with no health problems & was slightly out of the 'huge risk' age bracket. He slept in his own cot this particular night, with no bumper and a small amount of blankets. he is able to crawl around and move and was not under any blankets when he was found (didn't suffocate)

Obviously I am so nervous about what i should or shouldn't do - because I don't ever want to go through what his parents have. So i have bought one of those heartbeat sensors and read all about what to do to prevent sids....

Then my doula gave me a book about extremes in raising children, (sorry i can't remember the title now, but i think it was 10 ways of raising kids or something like that)..... and sids was mentioned as was co-sleeping. It said about how in the western world we are so set on giving a baby it's own space, its own room away from human contact like we want nothing to do with it. And we wonder why it cries? All babies want is human touch and stimulation....

In predominately 3rd world countries, they have a significant amount of hours of less crying and fussing by their babies, they co-sleep, breastfeed to comfort the baby when it slightly stirrs (not to a schedule) and they have no cases of sids....
This got me thinking and seriously wondering about co-sleeping. I have bassinett set up next to my bed because i think i will predominately use that - only for fear of being winter and having lots of blankets and pillows in our bed and not wanting to suffocate the baby.

So it's somewhere between a rock and hard place for me atm. I do think that some of the 'statistics' need re-evaluating to determine the real 'no cause' sids and those of 'suffocation' and 'accidents' (ie. parents falling asleep on couch with baby and baby falling down side or something) because it seems that each variable is affecting the number of cases of sids each year. Then it would be very interesting to see what the numbers said.

[wysiwyg]

I haven't read the book yet have on order at library, but have done some googling and would say I am sceptical about it especially after reading the SIDS for KIDS link thanks Just Me for posting. I suppose for me is anything that suggests that people spend years and years of their life researching something and do not actually want to find a cause, I just can not believe.

There are also so many things we do not understand in this world just because we can put a man on the moon etc doesn't mean that we can find an answer to everything. Adults can die in their sleep too (my sister found her flatmate, my DH knows someone who found their husband) and sometimes they just can not pin point why. The biology of us is amazing and immensely complex, to me is no surprise that we can do something technological like launch satellites and walk on the moon but can't pinpoint the cause of SIDS or find a cure for cancer etc.

Also from what I have read it seems to suggest old mattresses are the issue (increasing risk with subsequent children) the book is highlighting, so actually if the research did prove this it would be good for the cot mattress manufacturers. I am not actually clear on who and how big bucks are being made from hiding the info from us?

[Peg]

My neice had a brand new mattress in a brand new crib using brand new linen in a brand new dress - all in a near new house.

I simply cannot see how toxicity could have played any part in her passing. My sister is OCD about germs and cleanliness. She wouldn't even let my kids stay in the same room as her kids when we stayed with her.

And considering these toxic gasses "cannot be detected in post mortem exams" - its hard to called it proven.

toxicity comes from more then just mattresses

immunisations are full of toxic substances....and babies get a hell of a lot of it in their first year of life http://poisonevercure.150m.com/ingredients.htm]Toxic Ingredients
__________________________________________________ ___
Birth
*Hep B:

1–2 months
*Hep B:

2 months
* DTaP: Diphtheria, tetanus, and acellular pertussis vaccine
* Hib: Haemophilus influenzae type b vaccine
* IPV: Inactivated poliovirus vaccine
* PCV: Pneumococcal conjugate vaccine
* Rota: Rotavirus vaccine

4 months
* DTaP
* Hib
* IPV
* PCV
* Rota

6 months
* DTaP
* Hib
* PCV
* Rota

_________________________________________________

Im not posting this to scare anyone from immunizations, but simply to recognize that they do infact contain substances are toxic, so we need to be aware of the dangers and make informed decisions for our children and minimize the risk factors if we possibly can.


I have immunized my kids btw... i just waited until they started school.

[Inertia]

I think the biggest thing here is really that its a huge gaping difference between your mentality as a parent when you have not been touched by sids to when you have.. I do not mean that offensively at all!! I had 5 children before my niece passed away, and while I knew of SIDS and was scared of it, I would read the literature, then read some more here and there and formulate the best way I knew to protect my children from SIDS. I felt comfort in what I read to what I was doing. Hypothosies worked for me. It was just another something I could add to my arsenal of information to protect my babies.

I have only had one since then - and nothing, absolutely nothing sets my mind at ease. I sit in the same room on my bed next to her during every single daytime nap. If I have to be doing something else then I am walking into the room every 5 minutes. I don't fall asleep - I simply pass out from exhaustion while watching her sleep.

Nothing short of tested and retested unequivocal proof will ever set my mind at ease again.



However the real problem with going on about the red tape of red nose day and putting a downer on research foundations is that it is ignoring the work that they do to help and support families who have lost a child.

[JellyBean]

Nothing short of tested and retested unequivocal proof will ever set my mind at ease again.

I think that is perfectly understandable given your circumstances. I do know people who have been affected with SIDS - although they are not close family or friends of mine.
Even eliminating what I believe to be the major risk factors doesn't stop me from checking on my baby when he sleeps from time to time. I acknowledge that I cannot control all factors in the universe and that sometimes - bad things just happen for no apparent reason.
It is my belief however (after reading the book), that sudden infant death is largely preventable. It just made so much sense to me, you know - there was no mystery in it - once explained there was just no doubting that I was holding truth between the pages. So I just felt compelled to share what I know - I cannot expect that every parent or reader will feel the same way.
But if there is a possibility that this thread enlightens 1 person to aquire the info that inspires them to make changes that prevent a SIDS incident - I'm glad that I posted it.

Enough waffling now - my house is a mess!

[Junglemum]

We have men (and women!) walking on the moon since the 1970's, and we have sattelites orbiting the planet right now, and yet they expect us to seriously believe that they can't find a cause for why babies keep dying in their beds? Nonsense.

Are you kidding me? You really believe that because people can walk on the moon we should have the answers to everything in life? Yes i agree that sometimes vaccine companies can push their products with more than just our babies well being in mind, but saying that researchers don't really want to find a cause for SIDS is drawing a pretty long bow IMO.

[suse]

Without going into the rather extensive research on toxicity and vaccinations (and there have been many threads here which cover the topic), I'd like to ask the question which none of the proponents of the 'toxicity' theory as a probable cause of SIDS seem to address - why is there no evidence of toxicity found in those infants affected by SIDS?

Any other animal that is affected by the toxicity of a substance will show evidence of that substance in their blood and cells - so why not SIDS babies? I've yet to see any conclusive evidence demonstrating the effects of toxicity, neither is their any statistical evidence to show that SIDS is more prevalent amongst infants raised in houses built within the last (say) twenty years. In all likelihood the opposite could be inferred from the data, as the SIDS rate showed a marked decrease from the time it peaked in 1986 to 2000 (from 568 to 134 deaths).

The research undertaken to support the hypothesis that toxic gases from mattresses has been discredited, with the results unable to be replicated. One study did suggest a link between used mattresses and a higher rate of SIDS, but 'it is not known what condition these mattresses were in or what position these babies slept in. There is no evidence to show that the risk of SIDS increases for babies who sleep on their back and on a firm, clean, well fitting mattress that is in good condition.' Whilst the evidence relating to toxicity may be seen to conflict with advice given in relation to the increased risk of the children of smokers my understanding is that this relates specifically to carbon monoxide - which is associated with breathing difficulty. This also correlates with the statistics (cars using catalytic converters were introduced in 1986, corresponding with the increasing reduction of SIDS deaths that commenced from 1987).

Specifically on a link between SIDS and vaccination, studies have demonstrated that there is no increase in risk of SIDS in the 14 days following vaccination, and that the rate of SIDS is lower amongst the vaccinated population than the non-vaccinated. The Australian statistics on SIDS deaths show no increases at the usual times of vaccination. Although the highest risk for SIDS is in the period from 1-3 months of age, a breakdown of deaths by age show no difference at two months compared to one or three months (two months being the time of first vaccination).

[MissM]

My cousin lost her son @ 2 months old to sids ... He wasn't vaccinated). (I'll call him DS1 as he was first born)

He was a twin, they were born @ 42 weeks. Twin DS 1 was a 7.5 pound bubba, and twin DS 2 was 7 lb.

The night of his passing he fell asleep in his porta cot in the living room as DS 2 was sick and was keeping my cousin up almost every hour (as children do when they aren't well).

DS 1 slept ALOT (like most bubbas) but people noticed he slept alot more than DS 2.

DS 2 would cry and wake up on any given day and DS 1 would be woken for his food and would sleep sleep sleep ...

I have heard that there are links to autism and other disabilities after being vaccinated.

It is certainly making me think twice about when to vaccinate - but in saying that, these days parents are practically made to vaccinate (for daycare and school) I think next time around we will wait until at least 6 months to start the vaccinations. A post earlier stated a babies immune system doesnt start working until 6 months (i never knew that!!) so WHY are our babies given a HEP shot at birth??? DD didnt have the hep shot at birth, I refused it! and when it came time for the other vaccinations I done them one at a time - to give her body time to fight the vaccination.

Well, thats my 5 cents worth .. but this thread has fascinated DP and I! Thank you so much for posting it!

[Visitor6]

Firstly for the comments about the absence of a newborns immunity.

http://www.immune.org.nz/site_resour...munisation.pdf

Originally Posted by Oorki Galoorki
it is very hard to have a child's death to be classed as SIDs. infact there is now a law that if the death can not be decided upon(ie SIDs, suffocation), the parents can get charged.

I hope you can tell me too because nobody in the ambulance service I work for has told me.

We have men (and women!) walking on the moon since the 1970's, and we have sattelites orbiting the planet right now, and yet they expect us to seriously believe that they can't find a cause for why babies keep dying in their beds? Nonsense.

Sudden cardiac death happens in adults too: without discoverable cause just as in SIDS- if not more often. Whipping up some mechanics and computers to create a big firecracker is a whole lot different to the intricacies of the human body.

Human bodies are not machines. Birth does not guarantee life. Nor does it predict it's progression. When it ends suddenly we want answers we want something to hang our hats on; something or someone to blame. 'Just because' can be never enough.

I can't however hang my hat on ounfounded evidence.