Ultrasound. Are women so out of touch?

[suse]

I've often wondered whether women are less intuitive of their bodies' reproductive functions compared to previous generations where medical intervention was less prolific, or whether there was an element of not worrying about the unknowable involved.

I do agree that once you automate a process less attention is paid to it - look at the number of people today who rely on spell checks and calculators. And I also know from my dad's experience as an ambo that he could accurately diagnose a broken bone where a doctor would be reliant on an X-ray - they no longer have to use their senses in the same way that they did before that technology existed (which in many ways, is all that intuition and instinct is: paying attention to one's senses). So it stands to reason that we in general have become dependent upon things like ultrasound technology as a replacement of our own knowledge, and pay less attention to the physical signs of things that can be picked up on scans etc.

But I also think that perhaps there is a romanticised view of the instinctual birthing in previous generations. I don't necessarily think that women had any inherent advantage of body awareness beyond what I've mentioned above - they just didn't worry about it as much because there was no point. Birthing was something that happened in its own way and time, and compared to today, there were few interventions that could change the outcome of pregnancy or birth. I think people may have been more relaxed about it - why worry about things like LMPs and EDDs when there's no real way of controlling when it happens.

I think that when medical professionals treat it as a symbiotic relationship - in that they use their technology to confirm what a woman's senses are telling her, the best outcome can be had by all.

Tan - I'm really sorry you were treated condescendingly by your sonographer - that kind of attitude does nothing to improve trust between medical professionals and birthing women.

[Trillian]

Maya, I would never say my cycles are inconvenient far from it, but I don't pay it the same attention as I did when I was TTC, now I pay attention from a women's health perspective kwim?

[onthefly]

Going through IVF I had a zillion scans before I even got pregnant so you kinda just relinquish 'control'. Our private OB scanned evey time we saw him, till we asked him to stop, but we still ended up having 7 during the pregnancy, not including the pre-transfer scans.

But, when we booking in to the hospital, the midwives were only interested in the date of my LMP - so big raspberries to the dating scan!

I can see the value in an early/dating scan in some instances, but most of the time it's probably unnecessary. I wouldn't have one if I conceived naturally.

[maz]

We 'treat' it with paper disposable products that make it more horrible (THAT smell!!!). So, I will provide DD with a Mooncup when it's her time, so that she can bypass that distrust and disgust - it will be normal for her anyway, as she'll grow up seeing me use mine.

I have to ask...what will you do if your DD doesnt want to use a Mooncup? I to dont want mini me to use disposable products for AF but if she insist's I would rather buy them then have her embarressed, especially considering that its all knew to them in their teenage years ect.

I've often wondered whether women are less intuitive of their bodies' reproductive functions compared to previous generations where medical intervention was less prolific, or whether there was an element of not worrying about the unknowable involved.

Can anyone remember sex ed at school??? I bet my bottom dollar that if we were taught to tune into our selves rather then throw comdoms at us that there would be alot less accidental teenage pg's. There is so much worry about STD's and education about them...why dont they educate about ovulation correctly and not make it sucha shh shhh thing.

Maya, I would never say my cycles are inconvenient far from it, but I don't pay it the same attention as I did when I was TTC, now I pay attention from a women's health perspective kwim?

I'll say mine are especially atm cause its not nice muck wise for me and I totally agree...when your TCC you pay more attention on trying to grab that egg at the right time.

[Smoke Jaguar]

Maz,

it will be normal for her anyway, as she'll grow up seeing me use mine.

Dealing with her menses will be normalised for her by the time she reaches puberty If she still wants to use something else, then because of the way we are not coy about sexuality or physicality, our relationship will be one in which she can just talk to me about it and we can proceed from there - there'll be no need to have a secret stash of paper products just in case she is 'too embarrassed' to talk to me about stuff That's my whole point, though, Maz - my whole approach to bodies and what they do will erode that embarrassment that you and I are familiar with from school. My mum hardly talked about her periods except about the pain (she had endo) and me seeing her buy paper product in the supermarket for herself - that was my conditioning. DD's will be very different.

[maz]

Maz, Dealing with her menses will be normalised for her by the time she reaches puberty If she still wants to use something else, then because of the way we are not coy about sexuality or physicality, our relationship will be one in which she can just talk to me about it and we can proceed from there - there'll be no need to have a secret stash of paper products just in case she is 'too embarrassed' to talk to me about stuff That's my whole point, though, Maz - my whole approach to bodies and what they do will erode that embarrassment that you and I are familiar with from school. My mum hardly talked about her periods except about the pain (she had endo) and me seeing her buy paper product in the supermarket for herself - that was my conditioning. DD's will be very different.

I am hardly coy but there does come a time when some girls dont want to talk to their mum's about certain things...and alas peer pressure may get in the way Just because we are open and liberal about it doesnt mean that our daughter will be hon in years to come. I hope to god Im wrong and mini me will be open to using cloth as I do but time will tell

mini me already knows about periods ect and she's only 3 1/2 (had a great chat she did with a checkout chick at the supermarket today about it )

[Smoke Jaguar]

I do take your points, Maz, and I'm going to stay on the optimistic side of things I'll cross my bridges when I get to them! Meanwhile, life on our farm will mean waste reduction will be paramount and shopping done with minimising packaging as a priority, just to tackle it from a waste angle, if not from an intuitive one
ETA: and I was referring to the coyness I experienced from my mum as a kid - it was either coyness, or TMI at too late an age (as in, she waited too long - I was already in puberty)

[Rouge]

Even my husband knows everything about my cycles LOL.I guess for me having a fertility issue it's something I've always needed to know about my body.

[Bumperstump Cummerbund]

I hafta say, I know hardly anything about my cycles and systems....because the whole subject embarrasses me It was well explained by Mum, and also at school, but for some reason I cannot get past the embarrassment to learn about myself.

Sometimes I read things here, like the women TTC who know whether their cervix is hard or soft - I've tried ONCE and I can't even find the damn thing! I don't even wear tampons because the thought (and the action the one time I tried) of inserting them just feels so wrong, so embarrassing. And, though I'm sure everyone in AO will laugh, I have no idea how to 'help myself' - not that I ever would, because THAT embarrasses me too!

So in answer to your question Tan - yes, I am that out of touch, and I just don't know how to go about learning

[Lolli]

One very interesting thread.

[Glamourcide]

I don't necessarily think that women had any inherent advantage of body awareness beyond what I've mentioned above - they just didn't worry about it as much because there was no point. Birthing was something that happened in its own way and time, and compared to today, there were few interventions that could change the outcome of pregnancy or birth. I think people may have been more relaxed about it - why worry about things like LMPs and EDDs when there's no real way of controlling when it happens.

I absolutely agree - I remember talking to my grandmother about the confusion surrounding my EDD with DD2, and she said, 'When I was pregnant with your father, the 'due date' was 'sometime toward the end of Spring'!'
Whereas I, even knowing the approximate LMP because I fell pregnant within a week of ceasing the Pill (I had the breakthrough bleed two days after I stopped, then within days had that 'funny taste' in my mouth and knew I was UTD), was treated like an imbecile by midwives because the LMP, dating scan and size of my uterus toward the end of my pg weren't matching up like they were 'meant' to - my EDD (given by the nuses) went from May 14, to May 24, to May 21, then she arrived on her own on the morning of the 31st of May I felt the midwives were putting too much faith in textbooks and not enough in my body's ability to expel the child when she'd reached optimum growth. As I said, my cycles were never regular so I put zero faith in EDD based on LMP, I depended on a dating scan to measure my baby's growth, but I was relaxed about it and kept in mind that it was an ESTIMATED dude date, whereas most of my friends put all their bets on the EDD as 'THE day of arrival', and get all tied up in knots if they get BH before the due date, or go three hours past midnight with no sign of impending delivery.