Private schools used for cultural quarantine

[~clover~]

I think there is such a thing as socio-economic cultural quarantining to protect your kids from bogans.

Nothing to do with race whatsoever.

It is likely my DD will go to a private school because most of the public secondary schools in this area are full of ferals.

Am I quarantining her from their influence? Absolutely.

TBH, this is me. Its either a small public school, or private for me for this reason. I've not lived in an area where there are many emigrants, but I don't think that would sway my decision nearly as much as the type of people who's kids attended that school.

My excuse - I don't want my 9 year old daughter asking to go to so & so's house, then having to come up with an excuse as to why WITHOUT letting my child know the real reasons. Drug dealers/alcoholics etc... I've grown up in area's where parents lock their kids outside while they get high. I've seen a 14 month old & 2 year old wandering the streets coz they were locked outside alone. We knocked on their door, tried to open it. 20 minutes later the father comes out looking for them.

[Floweryfields]

You know there can be 'ferals' in private schools too right? I'm not sure what people class as 'feral' - but thinking of my local private school, there are certainly families who don't have alot of money, families who don't always wear shoes in public, maybe aren't the cleanest or most politely spoken.

Drug dealers and alcoholics aren't limited to income or socioeconomic standing exclusively either, I know of several very well off business people who smoke plenty of dope and send their children to very exclusive schools.

I understand where you are coming from with the influences on your children and choices made for schooling to try to avoid this, but I do find the implication that private schools are free from such influence quite, well, snotty. That choice is certainly not racist - but I am sure there is some 'ist' to describe it.

[Trillian]

You know there can be 'ferals' in private schools too right? I'm not sure what people class as 'feral' - but thinking of my local private school, there are certainly families who don't have alot of money, families who don't always wear shoes in public, maybe aren't the cleanest or most politely spoken.

Drug dealers and alcoholics aren't limited to income or socioeconomic standing exclusively either, I know of several very well off business people who smoke plenty of dope and send their children to very exclusive schools.

I understand where you are coming from with the influences on your children and choices made for schooling to try to avoid this, but I do find the implication that private schools are free from such influence quite, well, snotty. That choice is certainly not racist - but I am sure there is some 'ist' to describe it.

Roberta Williams' daughter doesn't go to public school

I often joke with Mum that the private school/rich kids can just afford a better class of drugs It does not matter where you send your kids there are always going to be kids and families that do not align with your own ideals. My MIL for instance is very pro-private school and when we were looking into it for DS, we considered sending him to DH's old school - Kinross Wollaroi - but there would be a huge student population that comes from overseas now - not migrant children, but children of wealthy asian families who want a quality education for their children and indeed they are high achievers! The other problem is that you will have wealthy people sending their rather dodgy kids to private school so they don't have to deal with them. The school that we hope to get DS into next year for high school is a selective agricultural government boarding school and people we know are also planning on sending their son there next year too but not because their son has an interest in Agriculture like our DS does, but because he is a total delinquent that has been suspended more times than you can count on two hands and will more than likely end up in prison at some point in his life. He is the youngest of 5 boys and they haven't brought him up - they have dragged him up and they have pretty much washed their hands of him and want him away in boarding school out of sight, out of mind. They don't know what to do with him so they are sending him away and making him someone elses problem.

[~clover~]

I never said private schools were free of those sorts of people. My own dad was the local pot dealer & sent us to the Catholic school. But the point is, to me, that if people care enough to pay for their kids education when there's free education across the road, than they most likely care enough to actually look after their kids & provide for them.

That isn't my sole reason for my choices. The education, beliefs & morals the school holds also counts & as someone who attended a Catholic school, I am all for the way we were taught. I don't know that there's a huge difference between private & public education itself, but the Catholic sysem holds a set of values I believe in. I do not feel that being a religious school it was too pushy for us. I think' its good for kids to have faith in something.

I am probably a bogan/feral myself! BUT I care about my kids. I feed them. I clothe them & I know where they are at all times. I'm sorry, but how many people would fork out thousands of dollars a year for their kids education, but then get high til they pass out while their kids are locked outside?

Drug users & alcoholics come from all walks of life/socio economic status, but the ones who are plain feral, are at the bottom of the list & do not look after their kids properly. Not every lower class person is feral. I don't for a second believe I'm above them. I'm a single mother of 4 on the pension. So I'm on the same income status as them. But I make an effort to care about my kids. Some don't. And to me, how can they possibly care for my child if they can't care for their own?

Bugger it. Call me snobby. I grew up IN that life. My parents looked after us. ALOT of the kids in my parents social circle were not looked after properly. I don't see why I should allow my kids to see/hear some of the things I saw & heard. Education, while important is just a small part of their lives. If I can feel like I have some control over their safety because of the school I send them too, so what?

I have my reasons & I do what I feel is best for MY kids.

[Freya]

I think its quite possible hell has frozen over..........

I have to agree with N2L.

Our eldest (and the other two eventually) are attending a catholic school up here. Catholic schools and private schools are two different things for me. We chose the school for a few reasons.
1. It was alot smaller than the zoned public school for our area (400 vs 3000).
2. I felt that the school upheld values, morals and a sense of community that is a little less evident in the public schools up here.
3. They were more accomodating in our interest in the school for our special needs child. The public school didnt even ask on their application if your child has special needs. Our school has already set in motion the preparations for our autistic son to attend prep next year and its only Term 1 (and our eldest has only just started prep!)


The catch 22 for our school is quite ironic. It is a little-known catholic school in a very low socio-economic part of our town. Alot of people dont even realise its there. And those that do, some refuse to use it based on postcode. Even though its 'selective' of the students that attend, as are all religious and private education avenues. They have a large mix of students; all from different backgrounds and cultures. Not all are from middle or upper class families. I personally love that about our school. They teach a very tolerant and giving attitude to the kids.

Interesting article though. I would have thought that the opposite would be true and the children from multicultural backgrounds would be more likely to attend private school.

[briggsy's girl]

I think there is such a thing as socio-economic cultural quarantining to protect your kids from bogans.

Nothing to do with race whatsoever.

It is likely my DD will go to a private school because most of the public secondary schools in this area are full of ferals.

Am I quarantining her from their influence? Absolutely.

we were thinking along these lines - very seriously - but then i got to spending some time with a few of the parents of kids at the school - and they are simply rich bogans instead of poor. horrible, judgmental pieces of work and i seriously don't want DD around that kind of attitude - so i'm at a loss again!!

our local primary school has a very bad reputation. we live in a great area, but feed into the school that services the Bronx - the lowest socio economic group in town. as much as i'd like to say it doesn't enter my thoughts, it does. so we thought about private school. and then got exposure to the "rich bogans" (as coined by another friend with a kidlet the same age) - so we're back in limbo!!

it's not racially motivated (i honestly couldn't tell you the racial breakdown through the schools here) - it's motivated by trying to have DD in the best educational environment possible

[Floweryfields]

I have my reasons & I do what I feel is best for MY kids

That was my point - everyone has their reasons and do what they feel best for their children, of course, that's natural (or it should be). Just as those mentioned in the study deemed as racist for choosing the type of schooling to 'avoid' other cultures....I was trying to make the observation that we all make choices based on specific reasons - how those choices are judged by others can label us a certain way. Whether that label is fair or truthful is another matter.

[Trillian]

Clover, I'm not dissing your choices I'm just saying that the irony of the situation is that sometimes people think they are getting something better just because they are paying for it or it's private/exclusive etc, but the reality is that it may be no different at all except they have a higher disposable income.

[nothing2lose]

I think its quite possible hell has frozen over..........

I have to agree with N2L.

Not only that, but you made me laugh

(ps. I'm not all bad )

[~clover~]

Sorry ausgirl - your post did make me feel like you thought I was a moron. I feel like I didn't succeed in highschool because of the crowd I hung around. I dropped out, fell pregnant... & here I am.

There's probably a 99% chance my kids will go the same way I did, but I'm going to do everything I can to avoid that. I'm trying to get them to understand that education is important. I'm doing everything I can to help them do better than I did.

I don't know if I'm doing it right or not, but I'm doing my best

[loulabelle]

Actually lots of schools with higher migrant density are high performing schools. It is the case in WA, where 2 of the top 5 state schools are situated in high immigrant populations. Migrants don't automatically translate to lower performance in school, nor do they always equate to lower socio-economic areas. So to say that parents don't send their kids to a high migrant density school because of lower performance doesn't actually stack up.

this is true in Melbourne too. my mum and sister work in two of the best performing public schools in the state. about 2/3 of students in these schools are immigrants.

Sent from my GT-S5570 using Tapatalk

[EsJay]

my reasons for wanting a private education for my kids have nothing to do with race/immigrants, in fact i think its good for kids to learn about other cultures.

I agree with freya, catholic/religious and private schools are very different things to me too.

[fionas]

Actually lots of schools with higher migrant density are high performing schools. It is the case in WA, where 2 of the top 5 state schools are situated in high immigrant populations. Migrants don't automatically translate to lower performance in school, nor do they always equate to lower socio-economic areas. So to say that parents don't send their kids to a high migrant density school because of lower performance doesn't actually stack up.

My point is that this study does not take account of NAPLAN scores. That, to me, makes it a pointless study because it is not even considering the possibility that people are choosing private schools because their local schools have lower NAPLAN scores. That's not for you or I to decide, that's for the study to find out. Of course, a migrant school population does not AUTOMATICALLY mean a lower performing school, I don't believe I said that.

By the by, our local fancy schmancy private school has crap NAPLAN scores compared to our old public school in Melbourne. Our local private school would be 99% white, our old public school in Melbourne was much more racially diverse. I prefer the lifestyle and upbringing I can give my girls here, I prefer the secondary schooling I could have given them in their high-achieving, racially diverse inner Melbourne school. Them's the breaks.

[Trillian]

I'm sick of people talking about the NAPLAN tests like they ****ing mean something!!! The NAPLAN tests are done on 2 days of the child's life every TWO YEARS!! They are a snapshot of what is going on for those kids on THOSE TWO DAYS!! And only in Numeracy, Literacy, spelling and writing. They do not take other KLA areas into account, they do not take into account that some schools make the kids sit practice exam after practice exam so they get a good mark on the day, they do not allow for other typs of intelligence that kids may have. If people had half a clue they would realise that the NAPLAN tests are practically meaningless except to tell you how your child and your child only is performing across those 4 areas. Anyone who chooses a school even remotely influenced by the NAPLAN results of that school is foolish.

[fionas]

It's the only thing we have though. How else can we compare the academic achievements of schools?

[Trillian]

OMG that is so ignorant! It SHOULD NEVER be used as a method of comparision between two schools!! That is NOT what the tests were designed for - that's the Government that decided that against the advice of every educator in the country. The tests were a diagnostic tool to be used in conjunction with all other assessments of the child throughout the year. Some schools are also able to withdraw children from the test with special needs/disbilities if they think that they will bring the school average down. What do you think people used to do before they had the NAPLAN to compare schools? The NAPLAN has not been around forever and only recently has it been used as a standardised test. Take the town I live in for example. The public school where my kids go has just under 300 students. The local catholic school has only 80 students. The catholic school always slightly outperforms the public school but they have an average of 10 students per year grade compared to 50 at the public school. They also have no ESL students (english as second language), no Indigenous students, have a higher socio economic status, and no special needs kids, whereas the public school has ESL kids, Indigenous kids, low income kids and special needs kids. BUT, to a person from out of town who is looking to move to the area and wants to check out the schools is going to get a totally wrong comparision of those two schools.

Here's a novel idea - actually go and visit the schools, talk to the principal, ask what programs they use for maths and literacy and how do they help children achieve their full potential and help those who need extra help, ask how the kids perform over the course of the year, read the annual school report, find out how much funding they direct towards buying resources for the school. Don't just sit in front of a computer looking at the bloody myschool website!

[fionas]

My kids are not in school yet so forgive my so-called ignorance. However, my understanding is that the Myschool website allows you to compare like with like, taking into account the socioeconomic background and other factors such as special needs kids.

The NAPLAN scores obviously don't take that into account but the Myschool website does and allows you to see how a school rates per se then how it rates against similar schools.

I have no idea what people used to do to compare schools before NAPLAN and the Myschool website. Perhaps you would care to fill me in, unless that was meant to be a rhetorical question. Wasn't that why Julia Gillard pushed so hard to introduce it - so that parents could compare. Obviously any test is flawed, but it does allow you to have a bit of a clue.

[fionas]

And for the record, I happen to think that numeracy, literacy, spelling and writing (note I have removed some of your capitalisation) are actually quite important, especially in primary years.