wowzers, didn't think that I would get that many responses to my question..
Don't anyone get me wrong, whilst my son was in my care I had him in a private high school but it just didn't cost as much as XH is paying for DD's $17K per year..it was paid for with money I actually had. I think my point in the post was not really private against public schooling it was more would you spent the money that you don't have sitting in your savings account on educational costs IYGWIM, ummm, having a bit of a blank trying to put my point to paper/pc....
The only secondary experience with public schooling is the one I got and cripes, that was years ago so I am sure it has changed over the years. I am however, very happy too with the private system. Like Bath said, the pastoral care and sporting programs are excellent.
IMO i think there are both good and bad to public and private schools. I grew up in Malaysia and went to a public school (yes not western education), my friends and i are all doing very well. Just about everyone of us in my class went to uni, I'm an engineer, there are accountants, teachers, a lawyer for a top firm in London, one who did a phd in statistics!, a marine biologist who's now a very happy SAHM. My brother is an engineer, cousins who are doctors, lawyers.
My brother and I were from a very tough background, very tough. But we did well, and our school taught us so much. I had some very good teachers and some bad.
School was not just academic but also taught us a lot about life..
I had friends from all different backgrounds, rich/poor, it was hard for me when when some of my rich friends could buy lots of things etc but tehre were also other kids who struggled in school (financially hard background with abusive parents).
I;d like DS to learn that the world consists of people of different levels.
This is again my opinion, but i dont agree how the government helps private schools, while public schools are in need. but this is another debate.
IMHO - there's nothing wrong w public education, i dont see private as one up on public. private can teach a child a lot things, give them lots of opportunities (maybe), luxuries, etc. but public, DH and I feel reflect the real world more. We feel DS needs to learn what hardship is too.
MrsMac - it's teachers like you that made me who I am today
AND to Nic - gosh, i hope this situation doesnt repeat.. If XH is behaving like that, is it any wonder DD is being rude.
But how exactly do you "shop around" for a public education??? You get what you are given in your suburb unless you are in the top percentage of academically gifted children and then you might be lucky to be able to attend a selective school which from what I have observed here in Melbourne are run in a very similar manner to private/independant schools. If you want your child to go to a school that reflects the "real world" then you wouldn't send them to a selective school... because in the real world not everyone is as intelligent as all your classmates. Your other option is to move out of your suburb. I just don't understand why children should be forced to go to the local school if it's just not up to scratch.
Nic: getting back onto your question: we don't have the cash for school fees in our bank accounts. Each term we pay the bill using a credit card. Over the course of the term we pay it off and like I said it's usually paid off in full before we get the next bill. So does this count as going into debt? You can pay the whole year's school fees upfront... but most people pay as you go... so to answer your question: if we couldn't keep up with the fee payments then we would move to an area with the public highschool with the best reputation. We would never just send our children to the local one regardless of it's reputation just to adhere to a principle. Just as I would never go to a local hospital if it had a bad reputation for the particular service I needed. And just like I don't eat only food that is grown locally (I pay extra in both money and cost to the environment to have the product I want) and like most people drive their private car when with a little extra effort they could catch public transport.
I think that in life you aim to follow your principles but at the end of the day you have to be realistic... you can't be expected to lead a perfectly idealistic life. I know that many people will think that morally I have sold out by sending my children to private schools and I would dread the thought of the public system collapsing with a mass migration to the private system. When I vote my preference goes to Labor, not Liberal who would gladly love to see the public system fold But I do see the bigger picture and I have priorities like my faith and a need for my children to receive pastoral care amongst other cultural aspects of education and when the public schools meet these needs I will gladly use the system. Until then I am happy to pay the school fees. If that money wasn't going toward a school then it would go on "stuff" and I really can't see why people begrudge me for giving my money to an instituion that serves many rather than using it to feather our nest? What's the big deal?
Last edited by Bathsheba; September 15th, 2009 at 09:49 AM.
It is such a very personal choice education isn't it?
I was educated in the public system - and it wasn't a fabulous education. I was very academic and that wasn't catered for. My mother wanted me to be sporty and I just wanted to learn!
My ex husband was educated privately and in my opinion it was a waste of time. He just wanted to play footy and his marks were atrocious.
However, my 3 primary aged children go to an independent school that I will and do do without to ebsure they can attend. Because it is the most amazing environment for children to learn and grow in spirtiually, emotionally, socially and academically. It is set in the rainforest and has a neo humanist ethos. I love it.
DD14 went to a catholic school in Brisbane before we moved and it was lovely - for me bnot being a Christian I struggled a fair bit with the catholic system. However, it was beautifully loving and supportive and that I was very happy to pay for.
DD14 now goes to a state high school - she excels - and has great opportunity there. I can say I am mostly happy.
However, if I wasn't satisfied with the education I would go into debt for her to attend a good private school.
I think you only get one shot at education and it has to be got right!
Nic in your situation I would try and make the payments for the rest of the year and then assess from there. I moved continually when I grew up and it was incredibly unsettling moving mid year from school to school.
If you can't afford it for the remaining school years I would sit her down and explain that. I would also explain it to CSA. If he has enrolled her and paid he cannot now not pay. He needs to honour his decisions and accept the unfairness this has on his daughter.
Bath, DD's school isn't in my area but I called them and explained that her needs weren't being met academically at the one she was at. Showed them her report (which was good, not AWESOME or gifted) and they accepted her.
I did wait until the end of year 10 because lots of students tend to leave or do VET type subjects.
I think it's your perception that a public school either can't be any good, or needs to be 'selective' to be of any value. And in the real world it's only the minority that are gifted...
Bath - i think you are taking my comments out of context. i'm saying that a public school encompasses children from all sorts of background, which is real life. i never said i want to deny my children good education. if they can get to a selective school in high school that's fantastic. if they get a place in oxford, that's brilliant. im not going to deny them that, just because i want them to experience real life. that would be stupid. going to oxford is also a very important life experience.
just because i believe in public education, doesnt mean im going to send my children to a crime ridden school with no facilities and non-commital teachers. please dont assume the extreme.
good education is very very important to DH and me. and it is in me to aim to go as far as poss, hence i got my post grad at 33 while working a full time job.
as i said - education isnt academic per se.
i do agree that it's not fair to be forced to go the school that's inyour suburb, instead of having the option to choose.
i went to a selective public school.
just it was selective for performing arts. so i got in because i danced.
the high school academically was ok, i got decent marks but was never pushed as i was always classed as a "performing arts student" and that was my focus.
we are looking into sending DS to a private school, but only because it offers good music and sports programmes and has subjects for year 11 and 12 he is interested in now.
then the fees are only 7 grand a year and thats all inclusive except for the langue excursion which isnt compulsory.
he is at a pulbic primary school now and i really dont think it is working for him, he isnt excelling and he is getting lax with his work. the teachers are pushing him or encouraging him and i feel this is because its a 3/4 class and not a straight 4 class.
i would love to send him to the private primary school but dh isnt to sure.
Our local public highschool: My observation: Students from this school are often to be seen in groups walking and smoking around the streets during school hours. Students from this school are often mucking up at the local train station: jumping down onto the train tracks, using offensive language, spitting and graffiting on the station. Students from this school have extremely poor personal presentation... in the real world they would struggle to find a job looking the way they do. Teachers (from my DD's school) are sent down to the train station to supervise the girls from her school ... the local public highschool does not send any teachers. Police have been called to attend disturbances created by students from this highschool, one incident involved knives. Male students from this highschool are frequently seen standing on the back of the train (on the outside) as it travels between two particular stations. My DD's school periodically has to keep girls back after school because they have been told that students from the local highschool have organised fights which they plan to video and place on You Tube... it's a running game to attack the private school students for entertainment. I know that private schools have their problems too (eg the one that got onto the news after a shocking muckup day episode). But at the end of the day I perceive it as a risk to send my DD to this local school. We have also spoken to the principal of this local highschool when my DD brought home a school report belonging to a year 9 male student who was going to chuck it in the bin. My DD liked this boy at the time but couldn't convince him to not chuck it. DH thought it appropriate to at least return it to the school. The principle told us, most unprofessionally that "Oh yes, this boy is a known problem, his parents wouldn't have missed it either" I don't care how challenging a child is or how slack the parents are you don't say that to people! I don't know... maybe my perceptions are wrong?
ETA: because I don't drive I am at this train station almost daily.
Last edited by Bathsheba; September 15th, 2009 at 10:37 AM.
It is so true that a school will be judged by the way the students present themselves. I personally have a huge issue with DD's school and the lack of acceptable (to me - and the majority of parents) dress guidelines.
However, my DD is in a great group of friends and is very academic. The school she attends received the same op levels as Rockhampton Grammar School and St Margarets in Brisbane... So....
A school is and will be judged by the way they present to the outside world.
Having said all of that. The younger kids school do not have a uniform (except for excursions they have a polo shirt with the school logo) barefeet are encouraged for play - and it's colourful due to the different self expression from all the different kids!
So, I do know that some in our town call it the "hippy school" or the barefoot hippy school... And I guess it is. But I know how amazing it is. I also have to say that the kids are incredibly respectful.
I guess what I am saying is that whilst we do judge on appearances sometimes they are not what they seem???
I know not all public highschools are like this one. I know some are fantastic. But the idea of sending my DD to this highschool to fit into a notion of how life "should" be seems crazy.
Prama: sorry I misinterpreted you previous post: I agree, education might not be that important to some people... but it is to us too... and quality comes before an ideal.
Deb: Your school sounds great, barefoot and all It's all about self respect. Your students sound like they have it... the kids at my local public highschool do not. If the kids at the local highschool are getting that attitude of being "problems" filtered down from the principal then no wonder!!! Kids become what they are told. I know that at my DD's school she is being told that she is an important member of society with a responsibility to others and that she should try to be resilient to life's challenges, not disenchanted.
Last edited by Bathsheba; September 15th, 2009 at 10:50 AM.
Well certainly not about this school - I too go off the behaviour of the students in public, I know where you are coming from.
DD's first school had to change their finish time and have teachers escort the students to the train station too. There were 2 other schools involved in 'station shenanigans' - one private, the other public with a generally excellent reputation (the kind you move house to get your kid into).
Stupid really....but the school she is at now is nowhere near a train station and I bet that helps
I went to a co-ed private high school and intend to send DD there when the time comes. I won't be going into debt for it but like Bath, think that you have to spend money somewhere so it might as well be on getting an education you are completely happy with. Of course there are great state high schools and when we actually get to that point, we might change our mind based on what has happened over the next 10 years but for now we are happy with where her name has been placed.
I'm not in a position to be going into debt but I think if I was, I wouldn't. Definitely not $1000s and $1000s in debt. I'm not really comfortable with spending money I don't actually have (although, there are times I would reconsider this stance; a conservative home loan for eg).
ETA: Also should add that if our financial situation changed or the fees sky rocketed to a point where it would not be feasible for us, we would look at public schools until we found one we were happy with rather than go into debt.
Last edited by Jellyfish; September 15th, 2009 at 11:04 AM.
I don't begrudge anyone putting their money into their kids education. I just don't believe that because parents are paying $$ that their kids are going to be any different. I could pay big $$ and my child could still become the biggest rebel and run off the rails, having no motivation or interest in academics. I could pay very little $$ and my child could still excel academically.
I think too I don't like the attitude that some come of private school with, that they're a cut-above the rest of us (experienced this at work... with people I was working alongside! How exactly did it get them further ahead than me when we're working alongside each other??) I mean.. once they go to uni, they will be mingling with public school people anyway.. heaven forbid! LOL.
I thought you could shop around public schools to some extent.. we always had people at our school that travelled on the train from elsewhere.. they weren't all locals.
I understand that if the local schools were atrocious and no-one had anything good to say about them, such as parents of kids going through having issues with various teachers etc and the presentation of those schools, then i can understand a necessary switch to private.. but at the same time I wouldn't over extend ourselves to pay for it.. which is what the OP asked.. would you go into debt for education. Nope.
Awww Liz I don't think people are suggesting in this thread that those who have private education are better... That's not what I have heard here.
I think that when a choice is made to pay for education it is because that choice is believed to give that student more opportunity or a more conducive to learning/discipline environment.
I truly get why if your local state highschool was a bit out there that you would pay for something better to keep in the same community.
I don't think private education churns out "better people" I think sometimes it gives a more diverse opportunity to focus on strengths or weaknesses. But certainly not always!
I think it is an individual school that you need to choose - that may be private or public. However, you only have one shot at education in your child - as parents we are all trying to do the best for them. We all come from differing frames of reference.
I only have one state school and one state high school in my community. To choose not to go to that high school I would have to put my child on a bus to travel 45 minutes to and from each day. For me I have to swallow the lack of discipline and accept the good things or move my entire family. Because for me it's important to school in my community.
My younger kids can either go to the state school or an independent school. DD14 went to the state primary and it was very very disappointing. So I choose to pay for an eduacation I can sing the praises of on many levels.
I don't think my children are better because they are independently educated - I do however think they are more rounded. They don't think a man in an orange robe is wierd and they can meditate, play guitar and sing without feeling wierd!!! To ME that is more important than a lot of things that others may find more important.
I don't know that I would go into debt for my childrens education.
I went to a catholic school growing up. The fees at that school were not very expensive, certainly not like the private schools in the area that charged around 15K - 20K per year.
I have very strong memories of my parents struggling to pay my school fees around the time that my dad got sick then lost his job. I hated that I used to get called to the office to get a 'special envelope' from the accounts department. I would have been around 14, 15 years old and I still remember the sick feelings of guilt. I loved my school, but I hated the fact that my parents were stressed about my fees. I remember investigating scholarships at private schools on my own to try and take the burden off them. I didn't want to go to the public school that was over our back fence, because it had a terrible reputation for behaviour and academic performance.
In the end I'm pretty sure some of the fees got waived due to our circumstances and then they went on a payment plan. Being a catholic school, they were very good about the whole thing and I think the problem in hindsight was that my parents didn't communicate their situation to the school.
Now, these fees were not expensive - as an adult I've spent more on a couch than what the fees cost per year. But it was the debt aspect and the stress that it brought onto our family.
Anyway, perhaps a different perspective to the public v private debate that's been going on in recent posts but given the question was originally about debt I thought I'd share.
Another beautifully balanced post FlowerChild I totally agree: the most important thing to keep an open mind. Parents that make up their mind that only one system or the other is going to best for their children, I think, are losing an opportunity for their children.
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But I do see the bigger picture and I have priorities like my faith and a need for my children to receive pastoral care amongst other cultural aspects of education and when the public schools meet these needs I will gladly use the system. Until then I am happy to pay the school fees. If that money wasn't going toward a school then it would go on "stuff" and I really can't see why people begrudge me for giving my money to an instituion that serves many rather than using it to feather our nest? What's the big deal?
I don't care how challenging a child is or how slack the parents are you don't say that to people! I don't know... maybe my perceptions are wrong? 
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