Would you go into debt for your childs secondary education?

[Bathsheba]

If there's any proof that private high schools don't all churn out snobs there you have it! Well said Divvy. You are an inspiration chicky. If my DD turns out half as smart, compassionate and generally gorgeous as you I'll be thoroughly proud! The sacrifices are tough and when you're there I'll be barracking for you too. Your parents sound amazing too. Thanks for your contribution

Also I totally agree about the fees for private school being put to good use in paying the teachers higher wages. I noticed this when I was working at the ELC at my DD's first Girls' school. Higher wages, better facilities, smaller classes... it's very tempting to want to teach at one. But like you I deeply admire the teachers like my BIL who (for the past 30 years) have taught in Melbourne's most under-privileged schools. I plan to do this too at least for a few years... until I inevitably burn out I guess. Every child does deserve a good education... but it's like anything private... our homes our cars our entertainment: it's just reality that we give what we can to those in need... but at the end of the day none of us in this thread are going to choose to live in the same circumstances as the most impoverished... do we feel guilty for buying better stuff for our kids than the poor? Probably not... so why not a better education? If we can afford it? And also: for every child that is placed in a private school that's one less child the government has to pay for in the public system. I have heard the argument that public school parents are sick of (as tax-payers) subsidising private schools... but that's the same as me (a non driver) being cross about so much money being spent on roads.

But yes, like Divvy so wisely said: the current (divided) system is NOT fair... but that's how it is. Like so much in our life our kids have better lives than some kids... what's the alternative? Make sure everybody gets exactly the same deal... in everything?

[Liz]

the current (divided) system is NOT fair... but that's how it is.

oooh.. don't let the activists over in the expressing milk thread hear you say that! LOL.

[Bathsheba]

I know what you mean I think Liz... but it's a bit different standing up for your own lactating rights in the workplace compared to leveling out the whole education system. I just don't think that it's right on any level for every child to get exactly the same education. Could I ask for Religion to be offered at my public school (more than 1/2 an hour too... I'm talking about a full Anglican church ceremony once a week, hymns included)? Could I please ask for strict uniform codes (that's what DH and value). And could all schools please offer the same subjects? And could they start earlier (8.40am) and finish later (3.40) and have a 3 week holiday in the middle of the year? And could class sizes hover around 10 - 15 in the first year of school and be no larger than 22 in the senior years?

It's a fair comment Liz but in reality it's just not what parents want... I don't think anyone would be happy with a total level system. It would be like telling everyone to drive the same car.

[Liz]

yeah.. I was just being cheeky And you're right in one respect.. I don't want education being drummed into my kids as the thing that makes or breaks them.. that they won't get anywhere without it. If Private schools churn out people that believe it's the most important thing, then that's not for us

If an employer rejected my kids on the grounds of WHERE they went to school as opposed to their score, their presentation, their personality, then I would be telling them it wouldn't be a good environment to work in anyway.. find more reasonable people to work for.

Heck.. my DH failed his HSC twice, and is now very employable in an industry that he loves, and is more valuable than people coming out with uni degrees (same with my bro.. cept he didn't flunk high school.. just didn't go to uni)

I guess our own life experiences influence us more than anything else. If pieces of paper are what have gotten people through life before, then they know no different and pass this on to their kids. Just as we are passing on to our kids that you don't need pieces of paper or expensive schooling to tell you you're valuable or employable

[Bathsheba]

Ok...Liz, I have worked something out LOL We misunderstand each other about something:

I don't want my children to value pieces of paper or doing an education for education's sake. I want my children to develop their natural curiosity... to become passionate about learning stuff that interests them... to not have all the enthusiasm for learning stuff squashed out of them... to not have to wait until every student is silent and sitting up straight to ask a question... I want my children's natural talents identified and shined so that they are bright in a NATURAL way that THEY find fulfilling. To get this they need inspired and inspiring teachers... who have the ability to actually teach (and not just discipline)... and who teach with passion.

This is why I said I don't care if my DD grows up to be a garbage collector... JUST as long as her talents are used somehow in life. When I attend parent teacher interviews the focus is on how my DD's personal talents are being polished. Personally I expect to hear that "hmmm, your DD is ruling the classroom and talking too much in class" (which they do tell me usually as needed via a phone convo) but instead I hear "Your DD has leadership potential, lets get her involved in the Future Leaders club". From what I know of the private system it has a strong focus on the individual... it is a system that makes something negative (ie outspokenness) into something positive... turns evil powers into good LOL

So do you "get" that I'm not seeking "bits of paper" for my kids? I honestly just want them to be respected in their learning journey and to be able to show respect to others and to most importantly shine as people, not just as future employees. Sounds like an interesting book too BTW (Robert Kyosaki's) I'll look into it

[Liz]

Yep and with that post you could almost convert me Bath LOL. But I think you'll have success with your plans because you're on that same page. I think the parent's attitude and participation plays a huge part in what kids make of their schooling. I probably sound completely anti private schooling, but I'm not As I said, we all have different priorities and focus in life Not that I don't want my kids to shine.. just don't see it as necessary to go into debt for it when plenty of people shine with public education.

I couldn't lump all public teachers into the uninspired box tho. Yes they probably have smaller budgets and less resources, but hopefully we can find a school with passionate teachers I'm sure there is good and bad within the private schools too.. and even personality clashes with certain students and teachers.. paying a fee isn't going to guarantee that the teacher will gel with your child and tune in to their talents, or that the teacher doesn't have some issues of their own affecting their performance.

But it's hard to deny the attitude that the private system is fostering.. that their students are more employable etc.. if employers are discriminating on that point alone (maybe that question should be a no-no in interviews just like asking someone's religion, or even their age is!) It sounds like a big marketing campaign actually. It's a bit like these training colleges that guarantee employment. They've struck deals with employers and made a name for themselves, so now they can hike up the fees based on reputation & demand alone.

[Lulu]

I agree Div - a private education can certainly be the 'golden ticket' - and I most definitely agree with you there too Liz.
I KNOW my private education got me a couple of jobs over not having one. But I left them anyway cos I can rock it with the 'corporations of the world' no problem - I just don't want to.

The other thing to consider is how LONG that golden tickets lasts for. It doesn't last forever, there comes a point in your life where your secondary education or even Uni education doesn't mean much at all. It's the actual mark you make, not the paper in a frame on the wall...

xoxoxoxo

[Phteven]

I attended both private and public schools and the teachers who inspired me most were the ones I encountered in the public system, they had a passion for education that just wasn't evident in the teachers in any of my private schools.

I think the world is changing a great deal in terms of the golden ticket/old boys network. Most large companies no longer hire in house, instead they outsource it to HR companies who use aptitude testing, role-playing and so on to match jobs with the people best suited to them. Why? To avoid the costs associated with hiring staff that don't measure up via the old-boy network. I think that this attitude to hire is becoming more and more prevelant. I certainly wouldn't even bother looking at where a person went to school if I was resume checking and as Lulu pointed out the longer it has been since you left school the less relevant it is.

[Bathsheba]

Sadly that's not the case in the banking industry Bron Common practise when the managers are looking for new assistant staff from the Graduate Program is (because there are sooo many applicants) to narrow down the list by using certain criteria. Even though it might have been several years since the applicant was at highschool they will give preference to the privately educated ones. DH says that from experience (amongst all the managers he knows) these are the applicants who have the interpersonal skills required for the job: good grooming... good speech patterns... ability to quickly establish rapport with clients to name a few. But DH works in the private banking sector where the clients are very high net worth clients who generally have very high expectations in these areas. But... still... I'd say "meh" too... who'd want to work for a bank anyhow? but it does happen.