Clomid for LPD

Hi Everyone,
As some of you know I am off to see my ob this week as I have noted since we lost our baby boy in March that my LP has been no longer than 11 days.
I had a positive hpt over 3 days this week but a bleed on Friday and a QHCG of 5.
I am thinking that this latest loss could be due to a LP that is a bit too short. I also know that it takes time for the LP to settle down after birthing and that it is highly likely that my body will regulate itself...

My question is has anyone used Clomid successfully to lengthen their LP. My gut feeling is that I am jumping the gun a bit. It has only been 2 full cycles since our loss and I conceived on one of those. However because I am almost 39 I don't have a lot of time (for me) to play around.

Anyone's personal experiences would be so helpful....

yes i believe that clomid can help that. Vitex and false unicorn are two natural herbs which can also assist :)

Deb sweetie I can't help with any info but just want to wish you good luck for your appt with George later this week & I hope you get some answers to help you.

Thanks Kirsty,
I think I am jumping the gun a bit. I just want to maximise my chances. But, I am such an "all natural" girl that the idea of clomid doesn't sit too well. I will see what George thinks. I am sure that my cycle will regulate with the herbal formula I am on and the B6.
Love to you Kirsty xoxoxoxoxo

Here's hoping it does the job then Deb.

Hugs to you

I was just going to suggest Vitamin B6 - that is well known to help regulate LPD's.

I am so deeply sorry for your loss Deb, it's just not fair.

Thanks Mel,
Thanks for your kindness and support. Yes, I am on B6 and Vitex and a few other herbs to help to regulate my cycle. I think really that I need to just wait and let things work themselves out. I am just impatient I guess.... I just don't want to 'waste' too many months thinking "this is the month that my LP is longer and then find myself at 40! I am being a bit dramatic but I think you will get what I am saying.
George is seeing me tomorrow at 8.45am so we'll see what comes of that.
I really appreciate your support Melinda thankyou again....

Are you also taking EPO? I seem to recall discussing EPO with you some time ago (you had OOODLES of information for me which was fabbo!).

I can totally appreciate your impatience - I'm glad you are seeing George tomorrow and can have a good natter to him about where things are at, and where to from here, WRT your LP. I'm sure he too will understand where you are coming from......

FWIW I have a very dear friend who is 42 (hang on, she could be 43? I can't remember LOL) and only 7w away from the due date of her second little sausage (her first will be turning 2 around the same time!).

Thanks for that Mel:)
I am not taking EPO at the moment but I did phone my naturopath today and am going to take it this month.

I know I know I am not old at all!!! We all have a picture of what our family is going to look like and by now I had a baby brother or sister for the others and was thinking of my sixth! Do you know what I mean?

Also if I was 10 years younger or even 5 years younger I would just sit back and wait for things to normalise and be quite zen about it. I am still happy to do that for a time but I guess I have to decide how long I want to wait. I just want to make sure my body is healthy and give myself every opportunity of a healthy conception. The Clexane that I will be on when I finally do reach the 6 week mark in a pregnancy is taking enough on your body - it does deplete calcium stores for one thing...

Anyway, I am waiting for tomorrow and I have basically decided to be guided by what George says... Not that I am putting the decision in his hands, but if he has had experience with this before and successfully treated it than I will talk it over with my husband and we'll make a decision...

I also have a friend that sounds a lot like yours. She had her first at 43 annd her second at 45! Gorgeous healthy girls. She had 6 losses beforehand but made it in the end.
I will let you know tomorrow how I go. Thanks again Mel

Wishing you the best of luck Deb. I empathise with the feeling of time passing by too quickly and leaving you in a place where you feel your family isn't complete but yet your fertility is unable to meet the demands. Good luck with the doctor.

Best of luck for your appt with George in the morning Deb

Deb, good luck. I found the vitex took 3 months to do it's trick.

How did you go Deb???

Deb how did you get on with George sweetie??

Did you get any answers?

Thanks everyone for your support. Sorry it has taken so long to reply.
I haven't had a computer. I have hijacked my husbands laptop as he left for work without it today!!!! I have had bb withdrawls.

George... Well he agrees that it's possible that I have a bit of a lpd at present however he thinks that this is just the usual postpartum wonky lp thing. However as I am getting a little older and as I just want a sticky pregnancy that there it would be sensible to try the clomid. He has suggested that I do a 21 day progesterone level even if I don't ovulate until day 18. He said if o on day 18 to test progesterone on day 21 and again on day 25 (7 days post ovulation). This will give us an idea of how my levels look after ovulation and what the rise is and how long it takes etc. If I get a level of 40 or over no problem. I will just keep ttc and it is likely I will conceive again soon. If I get a level under 40 I will begin clomid on cd2 next month (providing of course I am not pregnant).

Unfortunately George is going on holidays for 3 weeks in July so he won't be around when I test progesterone. However, I have my script and my pathology forms and I am ready to go girls!

Oh how I hope that this is my sticky baby month! However,it is just a matter if time I guess...

Thanks to you all for your caring. I will get there!!!!

O good luck Deb, I too am rushing against time at being39, I too thought I had my little family worked out... sadly time has ticked on so long, and with pregnancys just ending in miscariage, it makes you wonder if one will ever stick. I did the progesterone levels, and mine came back high, so they didnt put me on anything. Am thinking maybe I should do another one, as this was 7 months ago, and still nothing!!!
Best of luck to you...

Oh Deb - I only just read this recent post. I did not realise you had m/c again so soon. I am so, so sorry. You are one brave lady to already be thinking ahead.
I truly hope your body sorts itself out soon and you don't even need clomid.If you do however, I pray it does the trick. I certainly got good prog levels whilst on it and really didn't notice to many side effects at all.
I understand your age concerns even though you are not that old! I felt that urgency too as I have been concerned with my age at 34.My OB keeps telling me i am a "baby" still. She is also an IVF specialist and deals with many women well into their 40's - so plenty of time for you yet young lady!!
best of luck and hope to hear some good news from you soon

Deb,
Sorry I have only just read your posts as I have been away.

I completely understand your impatience to get back on track. You know I am the same way. But remember, although everyone is different, I had two healthy, georgeous girls after I turned 39! You will be getting your happy, healthy BFP soon I just feel it.

I am 7 DPO and keeping fingers crossed. Having said that, I don't think it is my month again. Temps jumped a little CD15 (which matched in with OPK results), dropped, went back up for a couple of days but I think it is on the way down again (36.3, 36.4, 36.5, 36.3 36.6, 36.6, 36.5, 36.5) Prior to that first 36.3 I wrote down it had been 36.3 from about CD 1 of this cycle.
I did dicover that our timing may have been out in previous months. I used to brands of OPKs this time at the same time and got positives on different days. CM and temps only matched in with one brand. So maybe I haven't had a LPD at all! Maybe just thought I was O'ing at the wrong time. Will let you know when this AF arrives.

Anyway, keep smiling and know I am thinking of you.
Hugs and best wishes
Debbie

Good to hear from you Debbie.
Thankyou for your kind thoughts. Yep I feel it too. I don't think it will be long until it's 'our month'. It's interesting what you say about your opk's. I did think it was interesting that your opk's were positive for so long.
If you don't conceive this month can I make a suggestion????
I have used quite a few brands of opk's on my journey. I have found the Lullaby Conceptions opk's to be really fantastic. I only ever get a second line around ovulation. Usually a feint line a day of almost positive and then the next day a feint line again. I have conceived 3 times using them. They are very good and very good value. Lullaby now have really cheap preg tests that measure 10miu of HCG so about the same as the Fortel Ultra. They are really economical and they are not just the sticks but the test in the hard case. Anyway it's just a thougt, tell me to go away if you like!
I know other women use different brands and each of us gets comfy with what we know however just keep it in mind if you need more for the coming month. (let's hope you don't need any because you're pregnant!!!)

Deb, keep the good advice coming! Everything is appreciated.
Don't think it is my month as although temps still up, have normal AF symptoms too. I am 9DPO so not long until I know. If our timing was off, it means that I never had a LPD. Haven't used prog. cream this month.
Anyway, here's to a healthy bub for both of us.
Love and hugs, Debbie

You are a sweetie Debbie! I hope that you can tell me you have a bfp this month but if not it's gonna be soon okay!!!!
I am coming up to ovulation time now - the fun part! If I conceive this month I will have a due date of my youngest daughters birthday! That will mean 3 years between them. I can't believe that we have been making and losing babies for over a year now. Never mind the only way is up!
Keep me closely posted as I AM VERY interested in how you are going.
Big Hugs,

Deb,
Coming up to ovulation time! The only way is up!!! You said it girl!!!

Not good news today as my temp was back down to 36.3 with the previous two days being 36.6 & 36.5. Have AF symptoms (bloated stomach, light pains). Expect it to show up on the weekend.Sunday or Monday would be good as it would show that my LP phase is not out (13 or 14 days). I'm keeping my fingers crossed for that.
I've quite enjoyed the temping)must be mad!). It gives you something to do while waiting for "O" to come around and the fun to start. Then OPK's and then you have something to do during TTWW. Good grief, is that what my life has come down to. What a sad case!!! Still, I'm sure it will be worth it in the end.

Good luck to you and I will understand if we don't hear much from you in the next week(Ha, Ha,). I will think of that song in a different light from now on - "The only way is up, baby......"

Hugs as always,
Debbie

I like to play with words!!!! I'm glad you got it!
WE WILL GET THERE!!!!! Then PAML won't know what hit them with us two in there!!! Do you think they could cope with us???
I am sorry about the temp dip. Keep your spirits up we're are gonna get there really soon.
Love to you

you go girls, crossing fingers for both of you!!!look out paml :)

They will be begging us to stop!!! But we won't, no way.
PAML here we come!!!!!!
love
Debbie

How are you going Debbie? I've been thinking of you.
AF is here and I have a script for Clomid - tomorrow is the day I have to begin taking it. I had borderline progesterone levels this month and a LP of 10 -11 days.
I've been thinking of you. Do you think they will have some room for us in PAML soon?
Love to you

Clomid can help with an LP, but remember that an LP of anything over 10 days is perfectly normal. An LPD is not likely to have been the cause of your chemical pregnancy as once pregnant your progesterone levels generally increase and maintain. It is usually more of an issue in late implantation or when progesterone levels tend to be low anyway.

I can understand being impatient, but I would not suggest clomid as an option as it also would increase your chance of multiples. If you truly want to do something about it now, talk to your GP about progesterone tracking (BT at 7dpo) to see what your levels are like. If you do have low progesterone you could try things like pesseries or to keep natural, you can buy natural progesterone cream. The other suggestions are also worth considering as well...

Oh girls there is more than enough room in PAML for the two of you & I'm sure they'll welcome you with open arms when you get there

Deb - I'll be on clomid the same days. Wishing you the best of luck this time around.

Deb,
Was wondering what you were up to. Was waiting to see if you had some good news for me. Anyway, I'm sure there will be plenty of room for us in PAML. Better late than never as they say.
I'm on CD14 and looks as if I am going to "O" a little later this month. Have had EWCM last couple of days but temps haven't changed and no positive yet with the OPKs. Still, "O"ing around day 17 or 18 is normal for me. If I do I will be interested to see what my LP is like now I have stopped the natural progesterone cream.
Forgive me if you think I am being forward, but do you really need Clomid yet? I know we are all impatient to be pregnant but you aren't quite an old boiler yet!!! On the up side you have fallen pregnant naturally so you know you can. Maybe a bit more patience? Good grief, listen to me. Who am I to talk about patience!!! Anyway Deb, feel free to tell me to mind my business.

Anyway, I'm trying to stay positive and being thankful for what I have and letting go of what could have been. Looking to the future instead of back but trying to live as much in the present as I possibly can. Our time will come I just feel it. Still can't resist wanting it NOW though.

Love and hugs to you,
Debbie

so good to hear from you - I hope this is your month.
No, I don't think you are forward. I am not on clomid to make me ovulate as such, (of course clomid does induce ovulation...) however my progesterone levels were borderline this month again. What the clomid does is increases fsh and LH thus increasing progesterone. My LP is about 4 days shorter than normal for me. Pautric is correct that a luteal phase of 10 is considered at the very low end of normal though with a phase that short unless implantation is early the progesterone levels are not sustained for long enough to allow a pregnancy to take hold. Some women have phases this short and have a dozen kids. It does depend on when implantation occurs. My g/f has luteal phases of 10-11 and has 5 kids but has had 7 miscarriages. Due in part they believe to this shortened phase. The shortened luteal phase can't be treated just with progesterone. When the progesterone is lowered so is the fsh and lh at the start of a cycle. The lower progesterone levels at day 21 often indicate insufficient ovulation.
I decided if my LP was shortened again and my progesterone levels weren't great then I would do a round of clomid. NO, I am not ancient but I am coming up for 39 next month and I have had four pregnancies all lost now in the hope for our elusive number 5. Yep, I am impatient but I certainly wouldn't be trying the clomid if my prog. levels indicated normal ovulation. They are indicating that my ovulation isn't so great. I figure I could go on for another few months like this hoping it gets better (which it most likely would eventually...) or try this option and see. However whilst waiting I will get older! I will only do 2 rounds. Yes there is a slight increase in twins. If I am given healthy twins that I get to birth and hold and feed and love and watch grow I will feel like the luckiest woman alive!!! Wish me luck!

Wishing you both luck this cycle, you both so deserve to be pg.

Deb my gf has just had twins, a boy & a girl & they are adorable been up there having cuddles today ~ aaaargh just makes my heart melt

Wow Deb - you have just explained me perfectly. Wishing you luck.

Hi Pautric,
Thanks for taking time to reply to my post - I didn't have time yesterday to reply to you, sorry! The weekend was a doozy!
I do disagree with some of what you have said. Women with shortened LP do have a higher incidence of early miscarriage than women who have LP's above 12 days. That is a fact. However with early or chemical pregnancies it usually isn't known why a pregnancy is lost and it is often thought to be because of a chromosomal issue incompatible with life. However when a woman experiences short luteal phase and lower progesterone and early loss this does indicate LPD. The only accurate way of monitoring LPD is with a biopsy. Even this can be inaccurate. Serum progesterone levels need to be done regularly which I have been having.

I am under the care of an ob whom I trust and who invites debate and questions. For me that is necessary! I have been having regular bloods since the loss of my last baby in March.

It was once thought that a short LP could be treated with Progesterone only as maintaining the progesterone levels that dip naturally just prior to menstruation could keep the lining in place long enough for a good implantation. It was shown that there was a slight increase in pregnancies being maintained past 6 weeks with this but it was ever so slight. Evidence shows that when a woman has a short luteal phase ( Some gynaes will feel 10 or below is a bit low and others around 11) that if her progesterone levels are showing satisfactory levels at cd21 then the shortened lp probably doesn't need treating as to have a true LPD serum progesterone needs to be decreased. Because our bodies hormones work in synchrony kinda like a flow on effect if one hormone is decreased usually others are out f whack also. When a woman has low progesterone levels and more than 2 incidences of early miscarriage or chemical prgnancy and a shortened luteal phase treatment is indicated. That doesn't mean a woman has to have treatment as often our bodies get back on track on their own eventually.

However for me I am a whisker off 39 I have had 2 early miscarriages and 2 mid trimester foetal deaths. My progesterone levels are lower than we would like. Due to my age and parity I have a higher risk of conceiving twins naturally so we know that we are already in a higher 'risk' bracket. The increased 'risk' of conceiving multiples - usually twins on clomid is around 8 percent. This combined with my age risk gives me a 'risk' of around 15 percent of having a multiple birth. That means I have an 85 percent 'risk' of not conceiving a mulitple! However my risk of another early pregnancy loss without treatment if my progesterone levels remain as they are is around 40% without factoring in my age.

Clomid works on increasing FSH in the follicular stage of my cycle and increasing LH in the middle of my cycle. These increases flow on to increase progesterone. This is why it very often does help with LP issues.

We could choose to wait a few more cycles and see if things improve on their own and it is very possible they would. However if they don't and it is very possible that they won't I am older with a bigger and bigger gap between my other children and then end up doing the same thing anyway (clomid)

Choosing to have treatment is a very personal thing. I am big on intuition and I have a 'feeling' that this will help me. I pray that it does and I pray that we are blessed with a live healthy baby. If we get two then I will feel doubly blessed!

I will keep you posted!

Hi Michelle,
Thankyou too for your post...
I have watched your journey since the sadness at the loss of your Caitlyn.
I wish you all the luck the world has to give for this cycle! :goodluck: I am barracking for you!:pray:

Are you taking clomid for a LPD?

Has a reason been found for your losses? Will you be treated during this pregnancy?

I would love to be a belly buddy with you! Here's to you , Debbie and I in PAML next month!!!! Let's go girls!!!! :fertilise:

Hi Kirsty,
Thanks for your good wishes. So you think PAML will have room for Deb, Michelle and I???? We're a pretty loud bunch!!!!!!!

I read somewhere that your appt. in Melbourne is in September. I know it will take a long time for that to come around for you but I look forward to hearing you have been given the green light! Your support and friendship means so much to me and you deserve and will be given a beautiful healthy baby when the time is right too. I just know it.:hug:

Deb, you are truely a fountain of knowledge. Thanks for all the info. one baby or two. I certainly don't care, glad to hear you feel the same. Happy and healthy is all I want. After losing my twins I secretly have always wanted it to happen again. Chances of identical again is practically nil but there's always a chance of fraternal. For me it would be a stressful pregnancy but hey, it's gonna be stressful anyway!

I hope this is the month for all of us and if not, then we keep cheerful and try again.
Love to you all.
Great to chat again Debs - big hugs.
Debbie

Deb - I have a normal LP (about 14 days) but my progesterone level was 11 or 13 at day 21 which, as my gynae says, you ovulate - but not well. So for the same reason, we decided on the clomid path. It worked 4th cycle with Caitlyn and this is cycle 4 again. He is happy for me to try 6 cycles before heading off to other options. This is after discussion about endometrial lining changes and CM deficits. I hate the effects (although in reality I get few) and as such I take it at 9pm to decrease being woken by the hot flushes.

The early miscarriages were investigated (after *persuasion*) by an early miscarriage specialist. My gynae is very good and referred me early. The miscarriage guy, with reluctance as I had only one of the three with a positive BHCG (and even that one wasn't positive until 5weeks) did the testing and came up with Factor V leiden with protein C deficiency.

Had the first appointment with IVF before we found out we were pregnant with Caitlyn and he said due to the heterozygous nature of the Factor V leiden he wouldn't do anything during the pregnancy. As such we didn't.

Caitlyn's death is due to placental insufficiency, the placenta just did not implant fully at the 22ish week mark. She was the perfect size at 18-20weeks U/S but could not grow and this was not discovered until too late.

Next pregnancy ... we will be going back to RPA. My gynae is an OB but only works in prvate hospitals so he is more than happy for me to go to the facility with the neonatal support. I was going midwife clinic and the OB I was admitted under for Caitlyn works with them and is happy for me to follow the same management path. The difference will be aspirin and clexane from conception. U/S as normal in the first trimester up to 20 weeks. From then there will be doppler assessment of placental blood flow as well as foetal growth measurements every 2 weeks.

I am very happy with the management plan and, even though I am far from thrilled at needing to give myself injections, it will be worth it to get that healthy baby at the end.

I am with you regarding the age issue. I am heading quickly to the age of 35 and I would still like 3 babies which does not leave me much time if each conception takes this long to achieve.

Here's hoping we all make the transition from here to PAML very soon.

Thanks Debbie for your kind words and support.
Thanks Michelle for sharing your story - it was an honour to hear it.
I too will commence clexane and asprin from a positive hpt. I have had extensive testing and no abnormalities could be found with my bloods. No abnormalities with our babies. As you probably know the course of action for recurrent mid trimester loss is the clexane and asprin regime. The stats look good for this treatment and like you the thought of self injection isn't exciting the hope of a happy healthy live baby is!
I hope you and Debbie and I can travel the pregnancy path together. We so deserve it. Getting pregnant is just the start isn't it? Then we've got to keep the little darlings tucked safely inside growing and developing until they are big enough and strong enough to be born healthy.
We can do it!!!!!
Please keep in touch I look forward to watching your journey.
I haven't had any symptoms from the clomid but today is only day 2. Many many women don't have symptoms so I am hoping I will be one of them!
Big hugs to you xoxoxoxo

Deb - I had nausea and peaks and troughs in energy during the very first round when I took clomid in the morning. When I changed to the evening there were no side effects prior to conceiving Caitlyn. This time I am up to cycle 4. On the cycles this time I have found I am woken through the night / early hours of the morning with the most amazing hot flushes and sweats. I changed the time I take clomid to try to change the wake up time from 5am to 7am at least. So now it is my 9pm medication!!

:pray: this month will bring us all the blessing we are after. I hope PAML can cope!! :p