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Okay, we all know they can't advertise baby formula.
But can they advertise 'toddler' formula and say "if you decide to move on from breastfeeding" , plus also they suggested you should comp feed with it...
It was my understanding that 'toddlers' can just have cows milk and don't need formula anyway...
Is that the karicare one? Inthe writing on the ad it says breastfeeding recommended till there 2
surely after that cows milk is fine lol... i didnt have me glasses on so couldnt read the small print:
I found out the other day Australia hasn't agreed to the Code anyway, so they're allowed to advertise all formulas :-/
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Really??:
God, I love living here and I feel very lucky blah blah, but Australia really drops the ball (and sucks it too ;) ) when it comes to stuff like this.
No, that's not correct. Australia's acceptance of the WHO code on the marketing of infant formulas is far less than ideal, but it is the MAIF agreement. You can see details, including the complaints form, here.Department of Health and Ageing - Complaints Handling Process
Manufacturers are not allowed to advertise infant formula - thus the aggressive marketing of toddler formula (carefully branded to look identical to infant formula, and yes, BabyBellyBurton, a form of food completely unnecessary for children.
The only way legistlators will ever *get it* is if we tell them. Write to APMAIF and tell them what you think of toddler formula adds in general and this ad in particular. Don't worry about whether it is within the scope of the agreement - there job to read your complaint and sort that out. (they have to log it and investigate it anyway.)
So, don't keep it to yourself - complain long and loud
its just a spill to scare parents into thinking that solid foods and bm/ cows milk isnt satisfactory for toddlers and that they need more nutrients, total crock of boy cows poo really.
i can see its place if ur toddler really hasnt gotten into the food thing yet and u are no longer breast feeding, but i hope parents are well enough informed to know itd just a ploy.
i also cant stand the ad that insinuates that toddlers who drink a certain brand of toddler formula (cant remember which one) have stronger immune systems then those dont drink it.
I find nothing wrong with that ad to be honest.. What I don't agree with is putting kids on a formula as toddlers.. A healthy diet, fresh air and exercise is better for their immunity
This is what I thought...although DH saw a poster for infant formula in a shop, went in and told them he would be reporting them. It was in a very poor socioeconomic area, also with a lot of immigrants, and the poster looked at least 20 years old.:
Arghhhh, drives me nuts too. My sisters GP recommended she keep her 22 mth old on formula because "she doesn't eat much so doesn't have a varied diet." Uh, dude...that's toddlers, they live on a glass of water and a slice of fresh air.:
Oh gosh... really.. there is nothing wrong with the add. Its not shoving it in your face its just saying "if YOU decide to move on from breastfeeding etc" The add still leaves the decision totally up to you. They are like any company really, they will do what they have to do to sell their product. I have always thought that it was quite a pro breastfeeding add for a formula add. It does say on the add though that WHO reccomends breastfeeding for atleast 2 years.
Another completley unessesary (sp?) formula VS breastfeeding debate..
Well said, I totally agree.:
Have to say I thought the ad was fine...for a formula ad. Yes I don't agree with formula, but it's just a company like any other. Should it have a right to advertise? I'm undecided.
I actually think alcohol ads are more problematic than formula ads because of the way they normalize drinking. Mi don't think that formula ad normalizes formula because it states 'we all know breastfeeding is best'.
Companies are allowed to advertise medication and supplements in Australia, so why not formula?
it's interesting, isn't it, but my 8 year old said to me when she saw that ad...."They want you to think they like breastfeeding but they want you to formula feed" You hit the nail on the head. They want to normalise breastfeeding, and yes alcohol ads want to normalise drinking alcohol. As BabyBellyBurton said, they are encouraging you that it's normal to move on from breastfeeding prematurely and put your child on formula. The cans are branded to be identical to infant formula cans, so they get that high level of brand awareness. Research shows that the public perceive them as formula ads, generically, not toddler milk adds.
Why not advertise formula? Well, there are significant and well researched risks to feeding babies formula. Not easy to hear if you felt you had no other option than to formula feed (and I was in that category myself, partially formula feeding my first child and my fourth child (the knowing 8 year old) recieving formula throughout her whole infancy. (Yes, I drink alcohol too, knowing the risks.)
I think the breast feeding guidelines about not adverstising formula are good and I can see their point to a degree but on the other side of the fence ... I was in a position where I had to FF DD1 and the lack of information around formulas was really difficult. I don't know that advertising would necessarily fix that but the only information I was given was to pick one and stick to it, not to chop and change. I had no idea what to look for in a formula and I didn't have time to research on the internet (actually I was rarely using the internet at the time).
I don't think adverstising would fix that and this ad is not particularly informative, but I do think for mum's who have to formula feed by choice or for other reasons, factual information about formulas would be far more helpful.
The thing is, I don't think FF is *bad*. BM is obviously the perfect food for babies, and nothing else even comes close but there are times when that perfect food isn't an option and mothers need information.
As far as adverstising around toddler formula, it is not that much different to McDonalds adverstising Happy Meals. The only aspect that I don't like is that it doesn't at all help to normalise breastfeeding after a toddler turns two and I think it adds to the stress for mothers who are still BFing and looking for support. But then I also think this is a societal issue - we are too judgemental of each other and we take our values from advertising. I think we need to learn to be more tolerant of other people's choices as a society, rather than thinking there is one *right* way to do everything and judging people when they don't do things the way we think they should.
I have to agree with this. If anything, it makes me feel even more guilty that I was unable to BF. So for a formula ad, it does a great job of making me feel bad about my situation. I don't think it's fair to sweep FF mothers needs under the carpet by not even allowing a poster for formula.:
it's frustrating that when I had to put DS on formula, I had NO IDEA what was available because nobody is allowed to talk about formula for infants. It just makes me feel even more like the way I nourish my son is seen as wrong. I think as long as the advertising is clear, honest, and still reminds consumers that breast is best, there shouldn't be a problem.
Afterall, we can't all be perfect and BF for 2 years. (not having a go at anyone who can, or has.) Life's not perfect. Our babies aren't perfect. Sometimes unfortunate things happen, and we become a victim of circumstance. I couldn't even make 2 weeks because I was separated from my boy constantly in the early weeks, due to my injuries during surgery. I have to play the hand I was dealt, and formula is on those cards.
I agree though that formula is unneccesary for a toddler. I think they should be doing it in reverse, making information on infant formula widely available, because there are a LOT of women who are forced into that method of feeding. (and some who just choose it, which is their choice!) Infants NEED nourishment through formula if they aren't getting BM. Whereas a toddler could just sip on some cows milk (like I did as a child. And I didn't grow up to be a mutant).
Why is it that these companies are allowed to advertise for toddler formula, which is unneccesary in my eyes.... but they can't speak about infant formulas. If it wasn't for infant formula, I don't know how I would've fed my baby.
I hope that made sense.
This is NOT a FF vs BF debate!!!!!!!. If you FF, you are doing the best thing for YOUR baby. Why constantly feel down or attacked about this issue? Fact of the matter is, the add is a sneaky and backwards way of saying, your child still needs all this fabbo stuff we pack into toddler formula...including sugar. They dont. Toddler formula and infant formula are different. If you feed your baby formula, you are not a bad parent. A bad parent lets their child starve.
ETA I am not, and will never be anti formula. I am pro bf, if it's possible. If it's not, well, aren't we lucky we live in a country where formula is readily available on every supermarket shelf. People who FF have made the right decision for their child, it makes me sad to see such guilt over that choice. We parents have enough guilt as it is :(
I agree. I think the intention of this ad is normalise the phrase "I decided to move on from breastfeeding" so that more women will be comfortable to say it when their child is younger. But then they make sure they look like they support breastfeeding to 2 years old (but not beyond obviously). If you think this ad is full of warm and fuzzies, you've been duped.:
I think the comment about formula for infants was more about the serious lack of information available to mothers who are FF an infant, rather than the fact that they are FF in the first place.
It is difficult to know where to start if faced with the decision to switch to formula as there are differences between the brands but companies aren't allowed to tell us what those differences are. And yet they're allowed to advertised "toddler milks" which are generally completely unnecessary as they are nutritional supplements rather than seen as a proper infant formula. To me there's little difference between the advertising of toddler formula and the advertising of stuff like vitamins for kids (whichever brand you pick) which both really just result in expensive wee unless there is a genuine deficiency in the diet which is a lot rarer than people think.
I do think advertising standards have the wrong end of the stick - it'd be far more helpful for them to be able to provide information to formula feeding mothers about the differences in their formula vs someone else's so long as they're not pushing formula feeding to the detriment of breastfeeding. At least then a mother could walk into a pharmacy or supermarket with some idea where to start when confronted with the wall of cans of stuff...
I saw this one and straightaway thought it was a candidate for a slot on the Gruen Transfer...seriously how insidious is it to market a thing by claiming allegiance with its biggest market competitor??! It's sick. BTW it was my DH who first spotted the ad and told me about it - so it must be all kinds of wrong for him to have noticed.
It's marketing pure and simple. There is a product and the television is a place to market that product effectively. It's the same as selling a brand of yoghurt, cereal, milk.....etc etc....the consumer needs to make up there own mind. It's a business and they hire people and pay them alot of money to 'spin' words and sell products.
^^ THAT:
This isn't a FF vs Bf debate, or an attack on FF mums or anything. If your child is fed, warm, clean and loved you are a wonderful Mum doing the very best for your baby regardless of BF or FF.
What this is about, is big companies advertising formula in a way that is deceiving IMO.
:
What? I'm confused. Why report a poster about infant formula then? If anything, I'd be complaining about the toddler formula ads trying to trick mothers into believing their kids NEED whatever's in that stuff. Whereas, in certain situations, infant formula is neccesary. Information should be freely available, IMO.:
Not trying to be argumentative, just giving my POV. Sorry to single you out in particular PZ, but your statements confuse me. We're lucky to live in a country where the product is freely available, but sadly the information is not.
Anyway I'm a tad off topic. Just re-iterating that toddler formula is completely unneccesary, and it's annoying that they can advertise THAT, but not infant formula.... which is neccesary in some circumstances. I'm repeating myself! Coffee time!
I don't think that artificial baby milk companies should be able to advertise any of their products. If parents need to use ABM then they will do so regardless of whether it is advertised or not. If parents don't need to use ABM but they are toying with the idea because of misinformation then a blackout on advertising will reduce the number of parents who make the switch. It seems to me that many people confuse/conflate advertising and marketing for information. Advertising is not information about a product, it is aimed squarely at the emotions and only discloses the information that is likely to sell the product. This year pro-biotics are trendy in food so ABM marketing is all about pro-biotics. When my mother was breastfeeding low fat was the latest trend and they sold low-fat ABM with disastrous results - babies need fat for brain formation. I suspect that low sugar/fructose will be on the menu soon or maybe high protein. If advertising was banned and replaced with detailed fact sheets that were available at point of sale parents would actually be able to make choices based on information not emotion.
Onyx - I agree, a detailed fact sheet would be wonderful. That way, nobody gets to push their brand based on emotion instead of information. You said it better than I could.
Now THAT I can agree with!! Being able to make an informed choice rather than flying blind is definitely a better idea :):
Advertising and information are separate entities. I think detailed factsheets are the way to go. GP's are also a good source of info. Maybe even a website dedicated to the info. Something that must be actively sought out...not advertised. I will never be okay with advertising infant formula, because the purpose of advertising is money, it's to sell a product, pure and simple.
Ok, I couldn't find the actual Aussie advert, but this is pretty similar >> [link removed by Onyx because we don't allow ABM advertising on BB ;)]
Who breastfeeds standing up bouncing up and down? That baby doesn't even look attached ... No wonder Mums feel discouraged and overhwelmed, the image they've portrayed of what breastfeeding looks like is absurd!
The 'grown up' baby is only 15 months, WHO recommends continued breastfeeding up to 2 years age (and longer), and the text of the advert says "For when your toddler is not getting the nurtrients they need" ....
It is the most confusing, stupid advertisement I've ever seen!
They go from "nothing compares to breastmilk" to basically saying after 12 months your baby won't be getting the nutrients they need from breastmilk so you should supplement with formula or move on completely to formula...
Yes theres a lack of information about 'moving on' to formula, but thats why the formula tins tell you to talk to a health care professional before using the product
Sorry onyx! I didn't think !
**** it's on TV RIGHT NOW!!! I'm complaining to The Circle about who they promote...
(The youtube vid is called Karicare and it was Uploaded by ohbabymag) <<is this ok Onyx?
While I agree that there is no need for toddler formula and it's a blatant attempt to try and make money, I also think so what? We live in a society that is full of people trying to make money by influencing the way people think. I think blaming advertising is a cop out. It's the same as the argument against advertising junk food or happy meals during kids programming. Yes- it's sneaky and completely motivated by greed. Der!! It's marketing that's the point! To make money!
I find it funny that it's often the same people who complain about "big brother" and the govt having too much influence who also complain about advertising. Take some of the control back!! Just because you see an ad for something that doesn't mean you need to buy it! I don't understand the problem (especially with a poster for ff in a store?- are you serious?). You should be grown up enough to make your own decisions regardless of advertising. And if you're worried that the advertising is too one sided and might give people the wrong idea, then do something about it- donate to a cause that advertise or give out info on breastfeeding. I know the argument will be "well, I can make my own decision but I'm worried about other people" who gave you the right to make THEIR decisions? I'm all for people being informed but have a problem when one side start saying that the ads or info (and no- I don't think they are the same thing) for the other side should be suppressed.
this ad is a disgrace and i find it totally offensive.
same as md, my dh was actually the one to point it out to me and he was offended by it- which if you know my dh, says a lot about the ad!
i wish they would use it on the gruen transfer. it is terrible.
I find it offensive. Doesn't mean I find you offensive. The two don't meet. This isn't about people who formula feed, it's about dodgy marketing. Sheesh. No debate necessary. My opinion. I'm entitled to it and I'm not going to argue or be made to feel guilty because I have said opinion. It's not about you.
And I formula fed. /rant
totally agree Rouge. well said.
I really don't see the huge deal in this ad. If I wanted to pick a nice strip club to go to, or purchase a pair of incredibly skimpy underwear I could just go to the city and look at the massive billboards for them. But if I wanted to buy a tin of formula, heaven forbid that I see an ad for it.
I have never brought toddler formula, nor will I but if people want to, if they feel the need to, so be it. If everyone had access to a informed sensible health nurse or doctor, then maybe this product wouldn't exsist. But many people don't - they do have doctors that tell them its what their child needs. How can you stop that? I love the idea about better information. Without it (not advertising), the ability to make informed choices becomes very hard for some people.
I think there are two arguments happening here (at least). Some are talking about the specific ad and some are talking about advertising ABM in general. I think Rouge is right- her opinion and she's allowed to have it. I don't find the ad offensive as such but it is patronising.
And I'm not even getting into the ff vs bf debate. THAT IS NOT THIS THREAD!!!! I'm not going to say what we do because it's completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Lots of stuff gets dodgy marketing. But this isn't just a new shirt or a car... it's our children's health and wellbeing.
parents should have access to full information about what is actually in these products - current advertising does not provide this information, however. What it does is sell misinformation to parents, many of whom are quite vulnerable to messages about better sleep, greater contentment, better health, freedom from the demands of breastfeeding and so on.
These companies do not have an interest in the long-term wellbeing of babies. So long as there is no immediate and demonstrable harm, they're fine and they can sell their stuff - whether it be formula, baby food or whatever.
The way they market these products DOES matter. It should matter most of all to parents using these products. There isn't a lot of information around - marketing doesn't help with that though.
Do we really know what's in the products we feed our kids? It's an important question with life-long ramifications. Once again, advertising does not address wthi issue, it hides it. And advertisers know that the surest way to muddy the issue is to try and suggest that formula-feeding mothers are somehow being shamed for using these products. They know some mothers feel this way and they use it - if you get angry at anyone questioning their products or their marketing, then you're not questioning them yourselves.
I haven't read through all the replies so apoligies if this is repeated..
What is wrong with advertising formula?? People use it.. Same with disp nappies, alcohol, different brands of food.. ect.. We all make the choice whether to buy any of these products. We make decisions based on various things.. I am pro breastfeeding but I see nothing wrong with advertising formula.
Lol, I do. Not the whole feed, but DD prefers me to be standing, and when she's overtired and being fussy the only way to get her to attach is to be standing, slightly jigging her. She looks at me for a while and finally latches on. I can only sit down once she's been going for a while.:
Anywho, re this ad, I agree completely with Onyx, that there is a big difference between advertising and information. This commercial is not at all about giving information about formula, it's about selling their product. They're not even trying to sell the product over other formula companies, they seem to be specifically targeting breastfeeding.
I also agree that these commercials work to normalise FF/toddler milk. I don't think there's anything wrong with infant formula if it's needed for whatever reason, plenty of mums need it and should have access to information to choose the right one. But the toddler formula is a different story. Before TTC, and before joining BB, I thought once a baby was a certain age you gave them formula. It's just what you do. A colleague that I saw yesterday (has no children) I reckon thinks the same thing. She made a throw away comment along the lines of "when she's older and starts formula" as if it's just what you do.
It's that part of the advertising that I really don't agree with.
Because then who advertises the competition? The alternative isn't another company with the finances to compete, there is no money in breastfeeding (arguably there is potential for Governments to save money etc but you know what I mean). There should be readily available information for those who need to explore ABM options but I don't agree advertisement is the answer to that nor should it occur in my opinion.: