Organic Food vs "standard" food

[Trillian]

I personally think that the taste of 'supermarket' fruit and vege has very little to do with whether it is organic or not and more to do with the fact that everything is harvested well before it is ripe and kept in cold storage for months before being sold. I have had some absolute crap organic fruit and vege from time to time and even if you eat home grown fruit before it has properly matured it will still taste like crap. I think the 'taste' of organic is due more to the extra nutrients in the soil it is grown in as opposed to simply being organic in the first place.

Deb I have to disagree with you on the world eventually being a pesticide/insecticide free place - it just cannot happen to the extent you are dreaming of. There is just no way to combat some pests and plant diseases without chemicals of some sort as the R&D into natural bio solutions just aren't being developed quick enough and often they are inadequate to combat it on a large commercial production level. Obviously the aim is to use as little chemicals as you can and also find 'greener' and therefore safer alternatives. Demand will always far outweigh supply. And thats not the farmer in me talking LOL, but just being realistic. Personally I would love to be a fly on the wall of the CEO offices of Monsanto and Incitec when they are told their products are no longer required

Did you also know that it can take up to 20 years of NOT using chemicals on your farm to have it declared certified organic? That is also a large part of why there is such small scale production of organic produce ATM because there just isn't enough truly certified organic farms. Anyone can just grow stuff and not spray it, but is what you are buying truly organic? There is a certified organic farm about 35km from us and they started the organic process back in 1962 and didn't gain organic status until 1987. I will have to buy some of their goodies for you Deb and send you a care package I think - they do a yummy licorice and choc coated ginger.

ETA - Leasha, it would depend on where you source it from. I wouldn't trust organic supermarket stuff any more than the 'regular' kind as there is still the issue of cold storage etc, but if you can find a local farmers market or health food store they should be able to provide fresher quality organic produce.

[Inanna]

I can live in hope Trill!

I disagree. I think we have abused the Earth so much and only now are we beginning to realise how living against the Earth causes a chain reaction of distruction.

We don't eat with the seasons - we get all uppity if our Strawberries are not in the supermarket all the time! We need to act locally and think globally. Strawberries are in season we eat them,we make jam. When they are not they are not. We need to change the way we are such a consumeristic society. We don't eat what is grown locally. We demand apples when they are not in season. We spray the soul out of food so we can grow it where it isn't natural for it to be grown Or in a season that doesn't agree with it. We mass farm, mass spray and then lament at thestate of our soil or earth.

My DH was to buy a chicken farm for his company and they were intending to develop it. He backed out of the deal because there was a covet on the property. Becuase they had farmed chickens it was deemed unsafe. The toxins in the soil were out of conttol when they got the soil report back. It was unsafe to develop it but it was okay for the chickens and their eggs to be consumed. Its a world gone crazy.

I buy locally and sometimes I can't buy brocolli so I don'! I don't go to Coles because for me it's about supporting the Earth.

I do believe if we don't stop raping the Earth and the Ocean as we are we are headed for disaster.

We need to get used to doing without an ingredient or a vege if it's not freshly available. This cuts transportation costs (and the related emissions), it usually ensures fresher produce etc.

The time it takes for a farm to be certified organic differs. It depends on the history of the land. We have numerous organic farms in our area - some are in the process of conversion and some are certified. I have a friend whohas an organic dairy and it took her about 12 years. But the farmer before her was also kind to the land and had a very earth friendly herd.

Spray free farms if you ask will generally tell you what their practices are. Most are very eco friendly - though this cannot be proven and that is why certified organic farms are more exxy. Simply because they have done the hard yards. They produce product that is not sprayed with chemicals and their animals are not treate with chemicals (and thier milk if they are dairies are not altered...)

It's all about personal choice. I will never throw my hands up in surrender because over the past 20 years we have gone from not having any organic choice to having a Coles own organic brand... There is massive change. We need to believe that people will turn around and be kinder to the Earth and it's animals and work towards supporting that or we will burn out our Earth all together...

[Trillian]

Dont' get me wrong, I agree completely with what you are suggesting and I would love to see an era of farming that uses no chemical - it costs us thousands of dollars each year to buy the stuff and some of it smells that bad that you know it can't be good to have long term exposure, but I just can't see it being feasible world wide kwim? Personally I do only buy in season produce because that's when it is the best and the kids are starting to understand why I walk straight past the strawberries and watermelons atm but it will take a long time to change that mindset that's for sure. I have always been in disagreement with come crops being gown in areas where if it weren't for irrigation, then they just couldn't grow there. I have a huge issue with the big cotton growers to the north as they are the ones largely responsible for the rape of the river systems as they divert the natural water flow of rivers and dam all the run off that should naturally run into them. I live in the MIA and have an issue with growing rice in this area as without irrigation it just can't be grown as the natural rainfall isn't high enough (and having that opinion has gotten me into some interesting discussions let me tell you!). I am all for R&D being done into disease resistant crops, but the Govt is in the process of closing all the ag stations where all that research is done, so while ever you have a govt that it anti-farming (on a state level and to a certain degree a federal one) our hands are tied.

[LimeSlice]

I actually bought Organic SR flour (woolies brand) the other day - I was astounded at the checkout to find it was actually only a $1 more than the other stuff - and given how exxy flour is becoming these days I dont understand why you would buy non-organic flour when you can get the god stuff so cheap!
The Woolies Organic Pasta is also priced well.

I've been quite impressed with the amount of organic store products available in the last few months.

I went to get the chook for dinner tonight before though - went to Lenards and this is how the conversation went:

40-something Shop Assistant: "Hi, how can I help you?"
Me: " Hi... Do you guys actually do whole chooks?"
Assistant: "Yes we do. I can go and get you one if you like."
Me: "I do not suppose they are free-range and orgainc?"
Assistant: "Ah no I don't think so. They are only $9.90 though"
Me: " Ah I see. Thanks I think I will go to Coles and get a Mt Barker chook"
Assitant: "Ours are bigger than the Mt Barkers and much cheaper you know"




I now have a gorgeous 1.8kg chook for $16 And I know it will taste good because it had a good life.

[Phteven]

I went to get the chook for dinner tonight before though - went to Lenards and this is how the conversation went:

40-something Shop Assistant: "Hi, how can I help you?"
Me: " Hi... Do you guys actually do whole chooks?"
Assistant: "Yes we do. I can go and get you one if you like."
Me: "I do not suppose they are free-range and orgainc?"
Assistant: "Ah no I don't think so. They are only $9.90 though"
Me: " Ah I see. Thanks I think I will go to Coles and get a Mt Barker chook"
Assitant: "Ours are bigger than the Mt Barkers and much cheaper you know"




I now have a gorgeous 1.8kg chook for $16 And I know it will taste good because it had a good life.

*sigh* what is the obsession with the gigantic chook? If you really want more chicken you can cook two!!

Farmer's markets are great. We have one nearby but I have class on saturday morning so I can't go. Maybe I should try the organic market at Flemington.

[thepixie]

K some of the non-certified organic stuff from our local farmers market is also delish. I have a rule - I never buy fruit, veges or meat from the supermarket. Not just because it tastes like cardboard but because I don't agree with the way they treat farmers and producers. If I can't get what I need from the markets I buy from the greengrocers or the butchers. Lots of good ones in our area!

[Kitt3n]

pixie - yeah we buy from them too, i was just comparing an apple from the supermarket to the apples from - well you know where! the difference is amazing

farmers markets are also great, there are a few of those around here too. its rare that we get fruit from the supermarket but sometimes you just have to.

tril - i'd love to plant trees - but we are in a unit and its just a no go. If and when we win lotto we will have a lovely edible garden, that is a dream of ours! its true what you say too - from the tree - oh remember my grandads figs - d'lish!!!!

As for chicken, that is the one meat that I will not eat unless it is organic, free range. I don't eat pork unless I am sure of where the pigs have been raised (but that is another topic)

flowerchild, i agree so much with so many of your points. we get all uppity if our Strawberries are not in the supermarket all the time! so so true. Kids of today probably have no idea of the seasons that fruit is at its best - its just always there in the supermarket! I could buy some watermelon right now if I wanted to

[AngelPunks]

I love shopping at the farmers market every wednesday in the CBD, my F&V is always yummy and fresh (usually picked in the last few days), the meat is yummy (I usually buy organic) - the good thing about the farmers market is that you can chat to the people who actually grow the stuff!!!!!!! It also seems to last longer (I throw it in my fridgesmart containers and it is fresh for AGES!).

[Inertia]

... but because I don't agree with the way they treat farmers and producers.

We got some awesome fresh off the stalk Corn at xmas. Dad does a lot of computer work for people and he went to fix this guys computer. Gave him a couple of bags full of corn ears. He went through and picked the best stuff off because..... a supermarket company had bought the crop worth and told him to plow it under...

Utterly gobsmacked I was - but the corn was delish!

[Trillian]

K some of the non-certified organic stuff from our local farmers market is also delish. I have a rule - I never buy fruit, veges or meat from the supermarket. Not just because it tastes like cardboard but because I don't agree with the way they treat farmers and producers. If I can't get what I need from the markets I buy from the greengrocers or the butchers. Lots of good ones in our area!

That's a whole other thread right there! I loathe how we are constantly screwed over - we boycott all Westons branded foods as they stitched us up a few years ago over a load of wheat - 35ton it was - that we sold to their melb factory and when the truck got there they called and said they would not pay the agreed amount because it was full of weevils (like fricken hell it was - it had been treated and kept in a fully sealed silo and was tested before it was sold and found to be weevil free) and our hands were tied because it would have cost us more money to get the truck to turn around and come home than we lost on the sale. But what could you do? It was their word against ours and the truck was sitting in their yard - they knew we wouldn't say turn the truck around and go home.

[MamaPan]

sherie - what an awful story. i will boycott them too!

[Bathsheba]

I also live in hope that consumers will demand more organic foods so farmers can have greater incentive to adjust their methods. I agree with FlowerChild that the expectation of foods being available all year round has got to change. People need to apply "absence makes the heart grown fonder" to foods. How sweeter a peach tastes after not having one for 9 months of the year? I think A LOT sweeter! We have also put in a vegie patch because there are so many foods like carrots that are soooo simple to grow in your own backyard and taste sooo much better than the tasteless supermarket variety. I think that too many people are putting the responsibility on producing food onto farmers when growing a bit themselves isn't really that hard. I remember as a kid that hardly anyone bought lemons... nearly everyone had a lemon tree in their backyard... or knew somebody who could give them a lemon if needed. Bring back the community spirit and a lot of the worlds' food shortage and quality issues could start to be solved. People are far too detached from the food growing process That's contributing to a wasteful mindset and other food abuses. I don't understand why here in Australia we have become so detached where in many European countries people are still connected to the food production process... rural France especially seems to be a great example of this. They are rejecting the mass production processes which lead to lesser quality so why can't we? They truly seem to value quality over quantity and I think it shows also in the fact that they don't seem to have the obesity problem that we in Australia have.... it's all connected. Just my thoughts.

[Lulu]

I personally think that the taste of 'supermarket' fruit and vege has very little to do with whether it is organic or not and more to do with the fact that everything is harvested well before it is ripe and kept in cold storage for months before being sold.

I agree.

You you guys have any Farmers Markets around you can go to? Maybe get a Co-op organised and do a trip to the country each fortnight or so?

[Trillian]

Kitt3n, it might be worth looking into getting a few small fruit trees that are seasonal and growing them in pots, that way you can plan it out so you have something different coming into season all the time. We've got lemons out the wa-zoo ATM, plus the IL's have loads of mandy's on their tree. We've eaten the oranges already though as the tree didn't do so well this year. In summer we will have all our stone fruit - nectarines, peaches and apricots. Organic or not (we do spray for pests on our home grown stuff if it needs it) it still tastes great when you pick fruit straight from the tree that is perfectly ripe.