Reply With Quoteyou're shocked that a teacher would enforce school rules?
Moderator
I don't quite know what to say to that Ginger. I'm kind of shocked that a teacher would spend their lunch-break in such a manner.
Registered User
you're shocked that a teacher would enforce school rules?
Moderator
In such an officious way? Yes.
Registered User
if one of my children was smoking in the school toilets, i would want them to be deterred from it. smoking kills people.
eta- i should also point out here that i have spent many lunchtimes running programs with small groups of girls who have been caught smoking and a qualified Quit counsellor, not just hanging around in the toilets.
Last edited by Ginger; February 26th, 2011 at 04:01 PM.
Registered User
Might try that one Ginger... it's a beauty.
I might also point out that other students don't like smokers on the school grounds. They regularly dob them in to teachers on duty. And to be completely honest, I don't have all that much compassion for students who are not interested in managing their addiction for the 6 hours that they are required to be at school. They have their priorities wrong, and in my opinion even at 15 and 16, they are old enough to understand how important their education is. What good is having them at school if they are only really there because they can smoke with their friends at lunch time? It is like the policy of keeping them at school until the end of yr 12 unless they are in full time work or tafe etc...all good in theory but it means that there are classrooms full of lazy teens who don't intend to do anything in class, but can't be bothered getting a job.
BellyBelly Member
Thats a good point Berrme.. I dont think being "allowed" to smoke at school keeps kids there.. a crock if you ask me.. they are there smoking anyway..
I think the "be in school till 18, or no centrelink" has MUCH more to do with the rise in attendance, not a smoking oval... are kids honestly saying " yeah, well, hated school, dont want an education, but they let me smoke in the open, not behind the shed, so now I want an education. Made all the difference"... I highly doubt it.
I wonder how many are there because without they get no money, over having a smoking spot???
Registered User
I just wrote a massive post but it got eaten
Might try that one Ginger... it's a beauty.
I might also point out that other students don't like smokers on the school grounds. They regularly dob them in to teachers on duty. And to be completely honest, I don't have all that much compassion for students who are not interested in managing their addiction for the 6 hours that they are required to be at school. They have their priorities wrong, and in my opinion even at 15 and 16, they are old enough to understand how important their education is. What good is having them at school if they are only really there because they can smoke with their friends at lunch time? It is like the policy of keeping them at school until the end of yr 12 unless they are in full time work or tafe etc...all good in theory but it means that there are classrooms full of lazy teens who don't intend to do anything in class, but can't be bothered getting a job.I'll have to come and write again but, for the moment I want to write how wrong judging a student based on smoking is on many levels.
I have my own story on this, I'll post when ds goes to sleep.
What do you think it does to a teenagers venerable self esteem to simply deem them bad because they smoke?? I don't understand why a teacher would teach in the first place if this was there mind set.
Registered User
Ginger, I wish I'd thought to do that when I was still teaching! I am incredibly sensitive to cigarette smoke to the point I would almost become physically ill if a student who had been smoking at recess/lunch came into my class room. Unfortunately, we couldn't actually do anything unless they were seen with the actual cigarette in their hands. When I was pregnant, it was bad enough having children of smokers in my class first thing in the morning as my incredibly sensitive nose became even more so.
As teachers, we are required to enforce the ever so unpopular hats rule - hats on or under the balconies - as there is the chance that the school will be able to be sued later on if a student develops skin cancer.
I can easily see this extending to a student being able to sue their school for not stopping them smoking when they develop lung cancer later in life.
BW
Registered User
I didn't say that smoking made students bad, in fact in an earlier post in this thread I said the exact opposite to that. There are plenty of very lovely young people who smoke outside school, but manage to control themselves for the hours that they are at school and are not permitted to smoke. In the real world there are going to be extended periods of time that they will not be able to have a smoke, and I think that they need to be able to control their during those times. School is one of them. There are plenty of teachers who smoke, but they don't do it at school, students should not be permitted to either.
My statement was regarding the students who don't care enough about school in the first place to put in the effort to be there regardless of whether they would rather be off smoking. I think these are the students that this rule is being made for, and therefore do not see it as a major improvement having them there. I would be very interested to see if these students who have been encouraged back to school by a designated smoking area are achieving well in their classes. I would love to be proven wrong!
Registered User
Berrme - I smoked from the age of fifteen, and smoked at school. I valued my education highly enough that my VCE marks were in the top 5% of the state, so whilst I respect that you have personal experience of students who attend school purely for the less desirable social aspects, I would argue that smoking in of itself has little bearing on the commitment to excel educationally.
I do find it interesting that a school has taken this path given the trend elsewhere in the community to ban public smoking, and in some ways applaud the school for taking such controversial steps to reduce truancy. After all, if a student is actually attending school, they can also be taught about health risks associated with smoking; whilst seeming to condone smoking this may actually lead to reduced smoking rates in the long term. Given that usage rates for heroin dropped in countries that adopted managed use programs (that firstly identified users and went hand in hand with education and counselling), a similar approach may be effective in reducing smoking.
Registered User
So it's only if they smoke at school that they become bad? Nicotine is more addictive than heroin, I don't think it's a matter of 'rather' be off smoking. Sure, in some cases but, saying that if one smokes at school, one then doesn't care for education is a generalisation, not fact. I'm not even saying every school should go and do this, but if it works then I think it's good.
As for an earlier comment( not sure who) saying that schools are going against the law doing this, legal smoking age is 16.
Registered User
I wasn't going to post in here but TBH, this post made me feel sick. Surely there are other ways to help your students, instead you are choosing the break the trust that students already lack for many teachers.
As someone has already posted, legal age to smoke is 16 and if there are offering support to help quit as well as helping to increase retention rates then good on them. You can only provide so much education in the end they are going to make the decision they want regardless of how much education you provide. And in the end, they are the ones that are going to suffer health wise and thats the concequence they have to accept for making the decision they did.
This is all i'm going to post in here...
Registered User
It was me and I stand corrected...it is illegal to sell tobacco products to a person under 18...because they hope that adults are resposible enough not to supply under 18's with the cigarettes.
Just curious if you would be ok to have your children smoking at your house when they are 16?
I am not so I don't expect the school to alow it either.
Registered User
The legal smoking age may be 16 but they are also allowing 15yr olds to smoke. There are plenty of Yr9's at the middle year campus who smoke on the oval, DS got caught last year and got suspended, some of these kids will turn 15 this year. Where do you draw the line, is it by age, I know each campus have their own rules but imagine the uproar if parents of students from the middle year campus being suspended for smoking yet senior year campus with a child the same age is allowed to smoke.
Regards,
Dianne
Registered User
There's more going on here than just the legal smoking age.
It's not legal for ANYONE to smoke within the grounds of a school. Any teachers who smoke aren't allowed to smoke on campus, why should the students be able to?
And having students respect and trust you isn't a matter of letting them do what they want when they want. It's not about always being the bad guy - it's about showing your students that you care and that you will hold them accountable.
I suspect that everyone is just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.
BW
Registered User
When I smoked and was a teacher I had nowhere to smoke at school and just had to tough it out for the school day until I went home before I had a smoke. Its ILLEGAL to smoke in school grounds so I can't see how the school can break the law by letting children smoke on the campus.
Registered User
I have worked in schools for quite some time now, and while I realise that it is a generalisation and there will always be exceptions, the kids who get caught smoking and get suspended for it are the same kids who are suspended for numerous other things too. The smoking doesn't make them bad, they just seem to be the same students whose difficult behaviour and lack of self control makes them poor students who in turn make schooling difficult for other students.
If we want to keep those completely addicted students at school then supply nicotine patches to get them through the day. In my opinion we should not be giving them areas to smoke during school hours. It may be legal to smoke at 16, but that means someone else has broken the law by getting them cigarettes. It is one of those stupid loopholes in the law that should be fixed.
Should we break the trust of the students who come and tell us about smoking in the toilets by then ignoring it? Or maybe just have all the students in the school that we know about students breaking school rules, but we don't really think those rules are worth enforcing so we will let it slide? That won't do much for the respect or trust of teachers either.
You also say the students are the ones who will suffer healthwise, that is exactly why we should not be providing them with a venue to harm themselves... they are still minors and are under our protection!
Registered User
I'm sorry but I would have to say: no way!
I think it's completely unacceptable. I don't buy into the whole "they would leave school grounds" thing. I'm sorry, but they are at school and should remain on school grounds. This was happening at my DS1's old school and I didn't agree with it at all. I think it's a poor society when teachers aren't allowed to discipline students under their care for fear of repercussions from parents/carers/society in general.
Besides all that, um isn't smoking supposed to be "bad for your health"????? Should we also promote safe drinking for those students who like to imbibe at lunch?
...... I'll get off my high-horse now!
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