Too scared to go on school excursion - WWYD

[myturn]

I'm not suggesting that it's a good excursion... But I do think that I have chosen a school, I have to commit to the decisions they make regarding the activities they set (I would probably chat to them about why they have that activity set, cause I'm not sure it's necessary of or prep either...).

I don't believe in having a day off for this reason, i guess I'm trying to say that I think it's an opportunity for learning. I can see your point WYSIWYG, I'm just not sure at five they have learnt the skills to regulate their emotional responses to make an informed decision about what makes them comfortable or not and whether they can cope with that. It's a very adult decision to make. And some adults can't. I think during childhood it's our responsibility to teach them now to learn to manage these feelings.

But of course each situations different, and there may be a time when you have to decide it's not the right call for your child. I think we just need to be careful of protecting our kids from all difficult situations. We never learn if we don't experience tough stuff, and there is a tendency for people these days to not allow their kids to do those hard things or take risks and experience emotions - I don't think it's especially helpful. I just think we need to teach them how to manage those situations instead.

NB.... I agree with what you have said. Each situation is different. I just wouldn't avoid the situation all together, and I don't believe in skipping school due to anxiety. I have seen too many times that this goes badly.

[*Ang*]

I am in two minds about this whole excursion.

Like others have mentioned, I did change my mind when I heard that it was a movie. If it was another excursion that perhaps had some educational value attached to it I would have sent him and tried to go along as a parent helper.

But the movie changed my thoughts - is it really necessary? what educational value will have it?

Upon saying that if I chose to keep him home I would not be making it into an "awesome mummy/son date" as someone else mentioned - what does that teach the child? That if they don't want to do something that everyone else is doing they will be rewarded for it? No, life is not like that. If he chose not to attend to the excursion then he would stay at home with me and do all the normal things I would do and he would fit around that.

[onthefly]

The anxiety needs to be addressed, yes, but in the meantime I don't believe there's value in shoving an anxious child into a situation bound to cause them distress.
What are you teaching your child when you ignore their distress and make them do something that causes greater anxiety?


ETA - and I don't see how it's a 'reward' to be spared likely trauma?

[Jellyfish]

For me it is as simple as would you force an adult into this situation? If the answer is no then I think you really need to ask yourself why you would even consider doing so to a child, they are people too and deserve the right of consent - just because you sign up for a school doesn't mean you sign over your rights as a parent or their rights as a person. I would never force an adult to watch something they are uncomfortable with, let alone in a group of peers, in public. And this is a 5yr old - not wanting to traumatize a child unnecessarily is very different to being overly protective. Preparing kids for adulthood isn't a sprint, nor should it be done at such a cost to their life right now. There is room to be discriminative between what challenges you encourage them to face and which you support them in facing later or in smaller steps or never because really, you never have to watch a movie that doesn't appeal to you, that is not a life requirement.

I think it is dangerous to give a 5yr old the impression that their feelings are invalid and they cannot trust their own sense of discomfort because they are younger. Imagine who else could exploit that sentiment?

I can see your point WYSIWYG, I'm just not sure at five they have learnt the skills to regulate their emotional responses to make an informed decision about what makes them comfortable or not and whether they can cope with that.

So have they learnt the skills to regulate their emotional response towards the situation they feel anxiety over (whether this discomfort is valid or not in somebody else's book it is clearly very real to them) enough to handle it? To benefit from the situation?

[Lilly-Pilly]

Can I ask, is it the actual movie/content that is worrying, or the excursion itself - eg going to the movies in general, or the trip as it's away from school etc?
Would he happily go to a different movie? Or go on an excursion to another place?
Just trying to understand what part is worrying

[surprised]

Upon saying that if I chose to keep him home I would not be making it into an "awesome mummy/son date" as someone else mentioned - what does that teach the child? That if they don't want to do something that everyone else is doing they will be rewarded for it? No, life is not like that. If he chose not to attend to the excursion then he would stay at home with me and do all the normal things I would do and he would fit around that.

Actually, and not trying to be argumentative, but I will absolutely reward my children for not wanting to do something that everyone else is doing. There are many, many things I see the people around me doing (myself included) that I hope my children will have the guts to stand against. Certainly if it became a pattern then that would need to be addressed, but I can't see that rewarding a child for setting a healthy boundary will turn them into a lazy avoider of activities.

I know I mentioned it before, but I can't emphasise enough that if you're someone who is sensitive to movies, watching a movie that disturbs you (regardless of how harmless others think it is) is a really awful experience. The unsettled feelings stay with you for days and come back when you're feeling anxious (alone at night, etc). My family laugh at how much I can't handle movies, and that's fine - I can see the funny side. I might watch 2 movies a year these days! I appreciate that others love movies and find them relaxing and enjoyable, but I just don't want to fill my head with thoughts that make me feel yuck. The news has a way of doing that anyway!! :s

[myturn]

For me it is as simple as would you force an adult into this situation? If the answer is no then I think you really need to ask yourself why you would even consider doing so to a child, they are people too and deserve the right of consent - just because you sign up for a school doesn't mean you sign over your rights as a parent or their rights as a person. I would never force an adult to watch something they are uncomfortable with, let alone in a group of peers, in public. And this is a 5yr old - not wanting to traumatize a child unnecessarily is very different to being overly protective. Preparing kids for adulthood isn't a sprint, nor should it be done at such a cost to their life right now. There is room to be discriminative between what challenges you encourage them to face and which you support them in facing later or in smaller steps or never because really, you never have to watch a movie that doesn't appeal to you, that is not a life requirement.

I think it is dangerous to give a 5yr old the impression that their feelings are invalid and they cannot trust their own sense of discomfort because they are younger. Imagine who else could exploit that sentiment?

So have they learnt the skills to regulate their emotional response towards the situation they feel anxiety over (whether this discomfort is valid or not in somebody else's book it is clearly very real to them) enough to handle it? To benefit from the situation?

I am not suggesting that you are teaching a child to do things they don't feel comfortable to do, nor that they do to trust their feelings. I fact just the opposite. I think helping them work through those feelings is exactly teaching them to trust those feelings and that you trust them to be able to work through them. Its teaching them how to be comfortable to do the things that are difficult. I think that yes, as adults sometimes we DO need to learn how do do things that make us uncomfortable. I don't think it is healthy to avoid all challenging situations. I absolutely hate hate hate spiders.... But I deal with them, and when I see them I use breathing strategies and I learn how to manage those feelings. I don't always ask my husband to deal with it. He may not always be there.

Your child may be in a situation where they are anxious and you are not around to fix it, or take them out of that situation. You don't have to see a movie you don't want to.... But that's what a child gets practice in, they don't get practice at really traumatic things. They get practice at small things, that are anxiety provoking and stressful. We wouldn't put them in situations that are so traumatic they would develop PTSD or other mental illnesses. I'm not for a second suggesting that.

If you go through all the motions and decide at the end the movie is so traumatic that your child should not see it, then you have done whatever you can. In that case I would be very concerned about my child's level of anxiety and consider seeking advice from a psychologist to help us work through some strategies to manage that. But I don't think keeping your child at home is the answer. They still need to go to school, so I would suggest discussing this with the school and getting them to spend the day in another grade.

And before anyone compares this discussion to trauma situations, I am not for a second condoning perpetuating trauma. Like everything it's about balance. I suggested that the OP try to help the child work through the issue first, rather than trying to take the child out of the situation or jump in and try to protect them from it. They have to experience hard emotions to know how to manage them if they DO come up in the future.

[Taurean]

Our DD1 (who will be 5 in Sept) absolutely loves movies but is terrified of the dog in Toy Story and a Cats The Musical scene on a Wiggles DVD! There isn't much that frightens her but those two things are very real and very traumatic for whatever reason. So if it was a similar situation to what our DD1 experiences then no, I wouldn't be sending him either. It's horrible watching how frightened our DD gets of those two random scenarios and forcing her to watch them would be cruel. I totally understand where you're coming from

[onthefly]

myturn, I think you're right in that clearly, there's a case for working through the anxiety. This takes time, however. My son also has anxiety and I, too, might be criticised for pandering to him, when in fact I am only trying to minimise his stress. We are seeking help, but in the meantime he finds everyday life anxiety-inducing, I don't wish to add to that.
This is the perspective from which I answer the OP, seeing the tell-tale signs in her post about a kid with anxiety in need of loving understanding and care.
My son gets upset at any change in routine. A fun day at school and he's a nervous wreck. A movie.... oh boy, no thanks.

[AnyDream]

I would be questioning the appropriateness of sending a class full of kids to see a movie that is PG-rated. Our school keeps it to G-rated movies, in the older grades a permission slip is needed to watch a PG movie. My concern is that it seems like one of those movies that relies on violence to resolve the plot line (the first one did). That's questionable for a group of 5-6 year olds. How does that tie in to the curriculum? Surely there are milder movies they could attend, and if not maybe the teacher needs to find a broader range of excursion possibilities.

If that were me, I would be raising the issue if appropriateness of the excursion in the first instance. Then, it would be a choice of either accompanying him (if he felt ok with that) or keeping him at home for the afternoon.

[Lenny]

A big thanks to everyone who replied. I read them all, and wanted to reply to each of you!

The school (there are 130 preps) is studying fairy tales, culminating in watching a fairy tale. I feel it is a terrible choice of movie, but want to resist the urge to be 'that parent' who always complains. Let's face it, deep down they want to take the kids on an excursion (yes, their first prep excursion) and this just fits the timetable.

I have discussed with his teacher and I can go with him. They will be discussing the movie in class formally (as well as in the playground, I'm sure). I have opted to wait a day or two before I discuss it again with him.

My son has never had a day off school. We has sent home once at 2pm because he fainted in class. He's thriving at school educationally and has never asked to not go.

I trust him with his feelings. I have to trust him about this. Sure, he's six, but that doesn't, to me, invalidate his wishes. I do not believe forcing him to attend this movie will be educational. Nor do I think it will benefit him emotionally or help him deal with his anxiety over it.
He doesn't really like swimming. But by god, every week I make him go. And he tells me what he thinks of it, and me. But he still goes.

He and I have been to two movies. The first time was The Lorax. His choice. He was terrified. He hated it. Spent the whole time on my lap under my arm with my cardigan over his head and his hands over his ears.
The second was Turbo. He spent 50% of the time on my lap with his hands over his ears screaming la la la to keep the noise out. The other 50% of the time he was on the floor with his head buried in my lap.

Coincidentally about 3 months ago my 4yo picked HTTYD from the video store. The 6year old hid in his room. Cried and sobbed when they put toothless 'in jail' because he knew toothless was innocent and didn't want him hurt.

I'm not sure that "emotional challenges" is an appropriate word to describe a trip to the movies. Maybe for some children, but not mine. Trauma. That's a better word. Like surprised said, she can laugh about it now, but why as adults we get to choose whether to subject ourselves to it, but children somehow get told it will be a good challenge for them? "It'll help him learn to persist when things get tough"? No, it'll remind him that he's different and that he needs to suck up his fear and emotions and not show them to anyone.

If it was a rock climbing excursion, yes, he'd be going. In fact, I know damn well he wouldn't ask not to, even though he probably wouldn't want to. In fact, it's dress up day soon and he hates dressing up, but has never once mentioned not going.

(I have since learned that a complex about an hour away does sensory movie sessions sometimes. I might try that sometime with him. But no hurry).

Thanks for the replies. It's nice to know I am not the only one who a) thinks the movie is a terrible idea for any child and b) thinks my little guy has a right to have his fears acknowledged and a right to say yes or no to things that happen to him.

[Artechim]

Lenny, sounds like you know his limits well and provide enough challenges to keep him moving forward. Exposing him to something terrifying probably won't help anything.

Is the cinema at a complex? Are they going by bus? Could you go with him on the bus, find something else to do with him while the movie is on and then meet up with the kids again for the trip home? Then he gets some of the camaraderie of attending the trip and isn't left out but doesn't have to see the actual movie.

for you, because it is tough and I am sure you will make the best choice for him.

[~Gee_Whizzy~]

Whilst i agree with myturn, at the end of the day only *you* know what your child can and can't handle. If it is going to cause him (and you, in the aftermath) trauma then, no, I wouldn't make him go.

[myturn]

If you can go with him that's a great compromise.

I don't want anyone to think that I am saying his feelings are invalid or anything like that. Not at all. Just saying it needs to be worked through. Which it sounds like you are doing.

And I think you are right about their choice of excursion.... There are other places they could take them that would fit the brief better in my opinion. FX he feels better with you there xox

[Trillian]

I wouldn't send him. It's to a movie, it's not like it's something that actually has anything to do with curriculum learning. If it was, I'd make him go, but because it's a social thing, I really wouldn't worry about it. Don't worry about the shared experience thing either - not a lot different to if all these kids saw it over a weekend in their own time and then talked about it at school anyway.

[Rouge]

I totally get where you are coming from myturn. And we have parented both ways. In ways where teaching them the tools is an important part of the process. But we also allow them choices. And if i had discussed all options and worked through the tools and my child was still obviously distressed then I would not force them to go.

You can teach the tools without disrespecting or taking away power from a child. And in most cases this is more empowering than just obliging straight off. And in my friendships being challenged respectfully is something I encourage so maybe that's why this option works best for my family.

Ultimately you know your child best. And even if you do decide to keep him home I would still talk about how best to deal with situations that he doesn't like or may lead to social anxiety. Otherwise my concern is for when a situation like that arises and he isn't equipped to deal with it. All his fears will come true.

[Olive]

Our preps whilst studying fairy tales last year went to the fairy park near Geelong, the year before they went to a gingerbread factory and made gingerbread, given that it's a PG movie, I wouldn't be very impressed with the choice, there are plenty of other movies that could have been chosen (and viewed at school)

[black_rose]

If it were an excursion to somewhere more educational I would try and go along with him eg our preps did the fairy park, aquarium and traffic school last year. But a movie I wouldn't send my dd as she freaks out over movies and has nightmares. She likes me to watch with her and we discuss what happens otherwise her anxiety goes through the roof. I would say you are better off having a mummy and ds day.