ICSI - Low Ovarian Reserve & Poor Sperm quality - DHEA

[Bex]

I am a newbie! I am 34 & my gorgeous husband is 28. We have been trying for a baby for approx 2 & half years. We were told last year that my husband had very poor sperm & we would need to use ICIS. Our FS was sure that it would be a smooth process and should get a good result. We were very excited & couldfn't wait to get started. Other than the synarel headache everything was great. When we started the injections I had a day of bloating then two days later my tummy went flat and on the day of my scan one ovary was no stimulated and the other had 2 follices I was a bit shocked and so was my FS. He increased my dose of puregon. At the time of collection I had three at the time I thought it was better than none! When I woke I was told I only had one from the collection as two release themselves. Ever being positive I again told myself it only takes one and tried to relax. Our FS called us the next day stating it did not activate & we had nothing to transfer. I was devastated and spent the rest of the day in bed eating M&M's and crying. I had an AMH test and my results are 1.3. My FS is surprised as I am healthy, fit & young.... Looks like early menapause for me!!
I am currently taking DHEA(Dehydroepiandrosterone) to increase my egg quality.
I am wondering if anyone else has had any exprience with low ovarian reserve??
We are starting another cycle in March. I am excited and trying to be very positive. I also am scared about another failed attempt as my FS would like to try an organic harvest next if this doesn't work. So I think he even thinks we are scrapping the barrel this time! I have a supportive husband & family. My friends try to understand and be helpful but they are all having babies and say relax....
I am hoping to find some support and understanding on here with people who are also having difficulties.
Thanks

[blinky76]

Hi Bex,
I too am 34 and have been Dx with low ovarian reserve (mine is 0.9). DH is also 34 and has been Dx with low count, good motility, poor morph (2%).
We have had two attempts at IUI ( both BFN's) and are now in currently 2dp5dt in our first IVF....
I am not very optimistic about this cycle and am now looking for solutions. My FS hasn't mentioned anything about DHEA, What is it and what are its benefits?
I am also curious to hear others experiences...

[Bex]

Hi Blinky,

Can you explain to me what 2dp5dtis?? I'm so new with all these abbreviations....
DHEA(Dehydroepiandrosterone)
EFFECTS OF DHEA IN WOMEN WITH DOR:
Increases egg (oocyte) and embryo counts
Improves egg and embryo quality
Increases number of embryos available for embryo transfer
Increases euploid (chromosomally normal) embryos available
Speeds up time to pregnancy in fertility treatment
Increases spontaneously conceived pregnancies
Improves IVF pregnancy rates
Improves cumulative pregnancy rates in patients under treatment
Decreases spontaneous miscarriage rates
likely reduces aneuploidy (chromosomal abnormalities ) in embryos
You can get it over the counter but we have a prescription & had to get it from a compoundiam pharmacy to ensure it was a good quality product.
I have taken it for three months now and I have great skin... a bonus!!
My FS did a scan last month and stated he was happy so far and to continue.
I am hoping it has a positive affect on our next cycle, time will tell...
I'd do anything to make this work.
Fingers crossed for us both!!
Good luck with your cycle

[onthefly]

2 days past 5-day transfer (ie, an embryo that has developed for 5 days, or blastocyst)

[Bex]

DHEA Beneficial Effects
The investigators at CHR have been using the mild male hormone dehydroepiandrosterone DHEA now for a number of years very successfully in women with diminished ovarian reserve (DOR), whether their ovarian impairment is due to advanced age or premature ovarian aging (POA). In doing so, we have been able to demonstrate that in such women DHEA supplementation has quite remarkable beneficial effects (see Table 1), which all can be summarized as rejuvenating ovarian function.

Table 1: EFFECTS OF DHEA IN WOMEN WITH DOR Increases egg (oocyte) and embryo counts
Improves egg and embryo quality
Increases number of embryos available for embryo transfer
Increases euploid (chromosomally normal) embryos available
Speeds up time to pregnancy in fertility treatment
Increases spontaneously conceived pregnancies
Improves IVF pregnancy rates
Improves cumulative pregnancy rates in patients under treatment
Decreases spontaneous miscarriage rates
likely reduces aneuploidy (chromosomal abnormalities ) in embryos
Not sure if it really does work but I'm willing to try anything at this stage.
It has worked wonders for my skin & my FS was happy with my last scan.
Good Luck with your Cycle

[blossom73]

hi i have low ovarian reserve and also a chromosonal problem and elevated NK cells.. I have been on DHEA for about 6 months i had a epu today and got 11 eggs which i was happy with.. I also took growth hormones which are about $130 per day for 10 days and i am seeing a chinese doctor so have been taking chinese herbs and getting accupuncture.
I am hoping that the combination of all this is going to get me some good quality eggs this time.
Good luck with your journeys
x

[katbaby]

You are definately not the only one in this scenario. My first IVF last December, I had 10 follicles which dropped to 5, on egg retrieval I had zero. Do people realise how soul destroying this is?? I didn't even get to have a go, get a chance. Just go home and thats it!!! Not even a refund!
I was so unimpressed with my specialists lack of medical explanation or interest. When I asked what she would do to change the protocol for the next try and she said nothing, I knew I had to change specialists. Which I did, all the way up to Brisbane, and I live in Sydney. Tried again, so scared to get no eggs. Got one. Was told it was a good one, to be told the next day it was a poor quality one and wouldnt fertilise. Said they would give me a "courtesy call" on the 24 hour mark, but "highly unlikely" and "virtually impossible" it would fertilise. I was told to stop all the drugs, cycle had finished, I could go back to Sydney now, nothing more to do. I was also told my next step seriously needs to be a donor egg. Tragic, im already using donor sperm as a single woman!!!
Got the call. My egg was showing very early signs of fertilisation!! Was told to wait overnight to see if it would divide! It divided! But a poor egg. A "minus 2" quality, not good at all. I was told to have it transfered back that day at midday which was a day 2 transfer. By the time it went back it had grown another cell, to a 3 cell, but with fragmentation. I was so thrilled to have made it to transfer for the first time. I have no illusions, my chances are tiny, but I was pyschologically satisfied. I was written off!! Told I could forget it!! So heres PRAYING that the battler of an embryo could work. The scientist said was I was "very very lucky". Heres hoping the "lucky" will be my miracle.
Hope this helps in someway to someone out there sad, and depressed and just about to give up.

[Bex]

Hi Blossom,

So happy to hear you had 11 for EPU, thats great to hear. Have you tried before using the DHEA?? I only had 1 EPU as two released themselves... I am thinking of trying accupunture.
Do you have to have other injections with NK cells??
I hope it all goes well for you. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

[blossom73]

Hi Bex i have used DHEA before but unfortunately for me the combination of the growth hormones, chinese herbs etc just hasnt worked that well this time either.
I had a call this morning out of 11 i have had 8 injected, 1 died, 1 fertilised and the rest not good at the moment but they may have caught up by this afternoon.
With the NK cells you have to have clexane injection, prednisone 30mg and 1 x cardiprin per day.
Katbaby fingers crossed for you, i know it is such a hard road i had the same thing happen last time and was sent home with nothing to transfer and this time out of 11 it looks like maybe 1 has fertilised find out more tomorrow.
Devastated today finding it hard to see the positives and i know i have to pick myself up and try...

[Bex]

Katbaby & Blossom,

You guys are amazing to be so strong. I wish you both all the luck in the world.
It is a gut wretching time & the money part doesn't bother you as long as you get something for hey... but when you don't it really stings hey.
I hope to hear you both have exctiting news really soon.
I just wish sometimes the FS could be a little bit more understanding to my FS after telling me there was nothing to transfer and I was crying put his hand on my leg and said ok cry today but then that's it. Time to move on. Which is hard when you feel soooo sad.

[ZigZag]

Hi. I've been taking DHEA for the last near 3 months as well. I was told after 3 IVF/ICSI treatments, it's likely I have low ovarian reserve due to the low numbers I get on egg pick-up and because anything that fertilises is 50%+ fragmented and dies by day 4. My hubby has really bad swimmers too. The last count I think was 4% good swimmers so ICSI is a must for us. I've been doing acupuncture and the Liz Lalor fertility homeopathic program. I have had very little side effects to the DHEA but do not feel any better off for it either as suggested by research. If anything I can get easily worked up / angry quicker and am losing a higher than normal amount of hair. I'm trying to stick to a low GI diet as well but it's hard. We're hoping to do another cycle in a month but if the results are the same, it's likely to be our last ever go and we'll stop trying. Its so hard to stay positive isn't it? In over 3 years of trying we've not had one single glimpse of a pregnancy. I just want to know why? I fell naturally with my first child and now nothing.

Bex what does an AMH test involve? What is the score referring to? Is it for low ovarian reserve? I've had every blood test under the sun...I thought. Also what does the NK cells test involve? I haven't been tested for it, but my FS treated me for it in our last cycle just to cover all bases. It's pretty easy to treat I'm told. We both had a single dose of a steroid, aspirin & something else I think. Can't quite remember....I've been taking so many drugs over the last year it's all just mashed into one.

All the best everyone.

[blossom73]

Hi zigzag with regards to NK cell test a FS called Dr Gavin Sacks at IVF Australia Bondi is the only one i think that does the biopsy to test for it.
It is treated with 30g prednisone a day, clexane and cardiprin.
Good luck with the next cycle i know it is so hard to let it go in the end but fingers crossed for you that the DHEA has made a difference and you get a good result.
x

[Bex]

ZigZag, the AMH test was done by FS and it is for Low Ovarian Reserve. Mine is very low & my husbands sperm test states the same as yours.
I'm looking for a good natropath but then I also don't want to keep shoving all these different drugs into my body I'm sure its getting confused.....
This soooo hard this journey and the only people who have a clue is other people who are going through the same thing. If I hear one more person tell me to relax or just do it more.... I will swear at them.
Blossum any news???
Katbaby how are you feeling??
have a good day all x

[blossom73]

Hi bex we only had one fertilize on our way now for transfer!
I am happy and grateful to be getting a chance but was hoping
to get some more for backup!! Fingers crossed this is the one.

Katbaby how r u going?

[nothing2lose]

Hi all. After reading your posts i asked my fs about DHEA yesterday and she said she was involved with a commonwealth study which disproved its effectiveness. She also said it has potentially negative risks (didn't elaborate). Apparently only one of all the fs at Melbourne IVF will go near the stuff. Needless to say she didnt put me on it!

[Bex]

Nothing2lose - It is not used a lot in a Australia and there is only minimal trials here - My FS is the only one using it a Melb IVF - it only has bad side effects if you go over 75mg's a day & you shouldn't use it for a long period of time.My FS believes it has helped at least three of his clients achieve their dream. In America it is commonly used and there are many more trials done there and they have great stat's for women with low ovarian reserve. I suppose some FS's have a protocol they use and stick to it.
At this stage we are willing to give ANYTHING a try if there is a slight chance it will help we are doing it. I had no follices on my left side since May last year and after three months of this I have three lil ones. Even if it only helps me to think its working & helps me get over the negative emotions I'm happy!! We are desperate.
Each to there own thou & I respect that.

Blossom - I am going to go to bed & say a prayer for you tonight & send you lots of positive sticky vibes - Best of luck & hope that in two weeks I can have champagne for you to celebrate your good news.

Katbaby - How are you??

ZigZag - Are you in Melbourne?? What is the Liz Lalor F. homeopathic program??

Hope everyone is well

[Where there's hope]

Hi Bex
I just wanted to let you know I took DHEA for 2.5 months before my successful fresh transfer of DS. I definately had a better cycle than previously - more eggs, more fertilising and more making it to blast. I would also like to suggest Coenzyme Q10. There is a small amount in Blackmores Conceive Well Gold (60mg) but you need a little more so I topped it up with an extra 100mg. CoQ10 helps with the mitochondria (hope I spelt that right from my memory), which is the energy within the developing egg. It is thought this energy starts to run down as we mature (though you are still a spring chicken).
Good luck
WTH x

[nothing2lose]

Nothing2lose - It is not used a lot in a Australia and there is only minimal trials here - My FS is the only one using it a Melb IVF - it only has bad side effects if you go over 75mg's a day & you shouldn't use it for a long period of time.My FS believes it has helped at least three of his clients achieve their dream. In America it is commonly used and there are many more trials done there and they have great stat's for women with low ovarian reserve. I suppose some FS's have a protocol they use and stick to it.
At this stage we are willing to give ANYTHING a try if there is a slight chance it will help we are doing it. I had no follices on my left side since May last year and after three months of this I have three lil ones. Even if it only helps me to think its working & helps me get over the negative emotions I'm happy!! We are desperate.
Each to there own thou & I respect that.

Absolutely!! I think we all want to do anything and everything that we think will help!!!!

Good luck xx

n2l